sarmanuscg07 Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 guess you can take something from the bills defense last year. no matter how good your line backers are (fletcher, spikes, crowell) if your defensive tackles can't take blockers and push the line back they aren't going to do anything except stop the running back 5-10 yards behind the line of scrimage. guess you could say that the DT is a prerequisite. one might compare it to a 14 year old having a nice sports car.. while its nice to have it isn't going to do you any good. welcome to buffalo darwin walker. good luck tko! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarmanuscg07 Posted March 28, 2007 Author Share Posted March 28, 2007 no replies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 no replies? Hi! Did you change your hair? It looks good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungee Jumper Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 no replies? Too sensible for here. Next time, try alternating caps and lower-case and typing something shallow, like "DaRwIn WaLkEr Is KeWl!!!", and you might get a better response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Too sensible for here. Next time, try alternating caps and lower-case and typing something shallow, like "DaRwIn WaLkEr Is KeWl!!!", and you might get a better response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 guess you can take something from the bills defense last year. no matter how good your line backers are (fletcher, spikes, crowell) if your defensive tackles can't take blockers and push the line back they aren't going to do anything except stop the running back 5-10 yards behind the line of scrimage. guess you could say that the DT is a prerequisite. one might compare it to a 14 year old having a nice sports car.. while its nice to have it isn't going to do you any good. welcome to buffalo darwin walker. good luck tko! I agree with your premise but I don't think our LBs were that good last year. Fletcher was good, Spike was invisible because of the injury, and Ellison and Crowell were both "pretty good." I don't think we had a great group back there by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I agree with your premise but I don't think our LBs were that good last year. Fletcher was good, Spike was invisible because of the injury, and Ellison and Crowell were both "pretty good." I don't think we had a great group back there by any means. i think our LB's are/were better than most seem to think (especially London, who should have been All-Pro the last 3 years). The DTs were a big part of it. With that said, we NOW need to improve LB more than we need to improve DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 i think our LB's are/were better than most seem to think (especially London, who should have been All-Pro the last 3 years). The DTs were a big part of it. With that said, we NOW need to improve LB more than we need to improve DT. I agree that the LBs were a better unit than the DT's last year ... but maybe not for the defense we are running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 i think our LB's are/were better than most seem to think (especially London, who should have been All-Pro the last 3 years). The DTs were a big part of it. With that said, we NOW need to improve LB more than we need to improve DT. I disagree. London made a lot of tackles (and many people like to cite the statistic) but if they were all down-field as some say, then he's not worthy of All-Pro status. Perhaps Pro Bowl, but he's not better than Urlacher or Al Wilson. DT is still a need, despite the optimism over the Walker deal. He's a pass rusher more than a run defender. I'm sure some will see that as too pessimistic, but if everyone wants to lampoon Brodrick Bunkley, the Eagles did choose the latter over the former. I'd have to trust the Eagles, along with other select teams in the NFL, because they consistently make the playoffs. With Buffalo's new regime, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. The DT position is upgraded, sure. But if we can get guys like Ellison in the sixth round, why do we need to make LB a priority this season like you're suggesting. You can get guys (hello Angelo Crowell) in the second and third. I'd like to see Amobi Okoye and then we'll see at LB. There's plenty of LB talent available. At OLB, Beason, R. Alexander, Tim Shaw, Justin Durant, and some others are going to be there in the second and third. Edit: Not to mention ILB's Siler, and David Harris. Great DT's are harder to find than good LB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 A reasoned argument? How did you ever get approved to post on this board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe78 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 guess you can take something from the bills defense last year. no matter how good your line backers are (fletcher, spikes, crowell) if your defensive tackles can't take blockers and push the line back they aren't going to do anything except stop the running back 5-10 yards behind the line of scrimage. guess you could say that the DT is a prerequisite. one might compare it to a 14 year old having a nice sports car.. while its nice to have it isn't going to do you any good. welcome to buffalo darwin walker. good luck tko! I must concur w/ your theory! Too many people are crying about this trade, but do not comprehend how imperative it is to have a D-line and O-line first! I love TKO but think this was a prudent trade for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 A reasoned argument? How did you ever get approved to post on this board? I must concur w/ your theory! Too many people are crying about this trade, but do not comprehend how imperative it is to have a D-line and O-line first! I love TKO but think this was a prudent trade for us. Thanks...I'd been a little hard on the front office earlier in some of my posts. Taking a balanced approach is something that needs to be maintained. After all, no football team every won a game by virtue of what they have on paper. The front office has a plan, if they didn't they wouldn't really have jobs. The draft will provide more answers and I'm excited about it. Can't wait for 28-29 April. Running the ball and stopping the run: It's obvious Marv wasn't joking. If Jauron's advising him as much as I think, then Marv knows how important DT's are to the success of the Cover-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 A reasoned argument? How did you ever get approved to post on this board? We've all made "reasoned arguments" (even the ones I disagree with). To which poster are you directing your comment, pray tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 [quote name='BillsVet' date='Mar 27 2007, 09:23 PM' post='95497 DT is still a need, despite the optimism over the Walker deal. He's a pass rusher more than a run defender. I'm sure some will see that as too pessimistic, but if everyone wants to lampoon Brodrick Bunkley, the Eagles did choose the latter over the former. I'd have to trust the Eagles, along with other select teams in the NFL, because they consistently make the playoffs. With Buffalo's new regime, I'll give them the dbout. I think they chose Bunkley because they drafted him #1 last year. Would not look good to get rid of him after 1 year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Sylvan Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I disagree. London made a lot of tackles (and many people like to cite the statistic) but if they were all down-field as some say, then he's not worthy of All-Pro status. Perhaps Pro Bowl, but he's not better than Urlacher or Al Wilson. DT is still a need, despite the optimism over the Walker deal. He's a pass rusher more than a run defender. I'm sure some will see that as too pessimistic, but if everyone wants to lampoon Brodrick Bunkley, the Eagles did choose the latter over the former. I'd have to trust the Eagles, along with other select teams in the NFL, because they consistently make the playoffs. With Buffalo's new regime, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. The DT position is upgraded, sure. But if we can get guys like Ellison in the sixth round, why do we need to make LB a priority this season like you're suggesting. You can get guys (hello Angelo Crowell) in the second and third. I'd like to see Amobi Okoye and then we'll see at LB. There's plenty of LB talent available. At OLB, Beason, R. Alexander, Tim Shaw, Justin Durant, and some others are going to be there in the second and third. Edit: Not to mention ILB's Siler, and David Harris. Great DT's are harder to find than good LB's. Without DT's who can do their job, how could London Fletcher be anything, but a downhill tackler I think he's still underrated. I haven't been able to find any exact statistics, but in one Chris Brown blog he said London led the team in tackles for a loss (not proportionally though, that was Kelsay) and also led the team in tackles for a stop on 3rd down. Here's linky http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=4562 I think that the drop off between a MLB like Fletcher playing behind a D-line that isn't very effective as oppose to a younger player behind a D-line that is effective won't be that drastic. It'll be easy for the young player to get experience and make plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Without DT's who can do their job, how could London Fletcher be anything, but a downhill tackler I think he's still underrated. I haven't been able to find any exact statistics, but in one Chris Brown blog he said London led the team in tackles for a loss (not proportionally though, that was Kelsay) and also led the team in tackles for a stop on 3rd down. Here's linky http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=4562 I think that the drop off between a MLB like Fletcher playing behind a D-line that isn't very effective as oppose to a younger player behind a D-line that is effective won't be that drastic. It'll be easy for the young player to get experience and make plays. As we've said many times on the board, you can paint statistics any color to illustrate an opinion. I'm simply using what was used to say Fletcher was an All-Pro and I don't agree with that opinion. If your numbers (and Chris Brown's) are correct, that's about 1 tackle per game. So there, I'm using stats to argue for my position. That's not enough from a MLB is a Cover-2. Think Urlacher makes 1 big tackle a game? Probably not. Tank Johnson and Tommie Harris combined with Ian Scott make guys like Briggs and Urlacher go from excellent to great LB's. The Cover-2 demands excellent up the middle players. We didn't get that last season and the DT's lack of gap penetration was a big part of why we couldn't stop the run. Fletcher would be much better with guys like John Henderson and Marcus Stroud. I'll agree with that. But I don't think he'd be much better with what we have now at DT. It's not that simple. You could say DeMeco Ryans was a big playmaker, up there in tackles and the Defensive Rookie of the Year. However, on closer review of the numbers his front 7 was so weak that the LB's had to make tackles. Tackles do not equate into stellar play. Somtimes it can just illustrate a poor front 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dib Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 no replies? ask me again in January Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB-94 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I disagree. London made a lot of tackles (and many people like to cite the statistic) but if they were all down-field as some say, then he's not worthy of All-Pro status. Perhaps Pro Bowl, but he's not better than Urlacher or Al Wilson. DT is still a need, despite the optimism over the Walker deal. He's a pass rusher more than a run defender. I'm sure some will see that as too pessimistic, but if everyone wants to lampoon Brodrick Bunkley, the Eagles did choose the latter over the former. I'd have to trust the Eagles, along with other select teams in the NFL, because they consistently make the playoffs. With Buffalo's new regime, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. The DT position is upgraded, sure. But if we can get guys like Ellison in the sixth round, why do we need to make LB a priority this season like you're suggesting. You can get guys (hello Angelo Crowell) in the second and third. I'd like to see Amobi Okoye and then we'll see at LB. There's plenty of LB talent available. At OLB, Beason, R. Alexander, Tim Shaw, Justin Durant, and some others are going to be there in the second and third. Edit: Not to mention ILB's Siler, and David Harris. Great DT's are harder to find than good LB's. You are crazy.....How can they possibly draft A DT early now. You have A FA signing last year, Two draft picks last year (1 first round) and a trade of your only proven LB for one. You cant tie up that money and draft picks in an another one. especially when you have so many holes to fill (LB, RB, DB, #2 WR) They chose those guys so they are going to have to live with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 You are crazy.....How can they possibly draft A DT early now. You have A FA signing last year, Two draft picks last year (1 first round) and a trade of your only proven LB for one. You cant tie up that money and draft picks in an another one. especially when you have so many holes to fill (LB, RB, DB, #2 WR) They chose those guys so they are going to have to live with them Funny, thing, did anyone see a safety going at #8 last season? Was Mike Mayock crazy when he made that prediction? I'm not saying I've got a crystal ball, but this team is capable of doing anything. Why do we assume we are satisfied with our DT's? After all, we were terrible against the run with Tripplett and McCargo. (insert sarcasm here, this is the usual defense against a guy being on a team that doesn't win or play well. P. Manning, LT, Marshall Faulk, Walter Payton, hell Dick Butkus, and a cast of hundreds fit this at some point in their careers) Tripplett can't dominate on his own. We're hoping for a lot out of Williams, but because none of us are scouts, how do we know how much he can improve? If you have a chance to grab a more athletic and quicker DT in Round 1, shouldn't you? The DT's and MLB are the most important positions in this defense. Everything else gets easier from there. I like Amobi Okoye...he's got character, tremendous potential and he's young. Sure McCargo is there, but nothing is set in stone. Besides, the season is 5 months away. Lot can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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