Teams utilizing "unfair" franchise tag! official thread

[stuckincincy]

PS: I still think that we should franchise Fletcher and re-sign Kelsay with 39 million dollars (and more to arrive) cap space.

 

I'd certainly think hard before letting Kelsey go...the Bills went a good while without decent DE play.

[BADOLBILZ]

And Clements was a turnover machine in Buffalo this year????

 

I really doubt the #12 pick is going to get 10 mil guaranteed. I don't even think Donte got that last year (although I could be wrong). If the #12 does get that, he would be getting that anyway weither Nates here or not and usually its determined by what others around him got and the previous years deals to picks.No one the Bills sign is going to get an 8 figure signing bonus because that is 1/3 of what they are going to spend this year. Clements is far more effective when he wants to be and has something to play for, thats why last year he didn't turn it on until the second half of the year.

 

Face it, Clements is gone, get over it, it will make your life much easier

 

For a cover corner, Clements WAS a turnover producer and playmaker. Thru his first 6 seasons, Clements has had more pics than Champ Bailey or Chris McAlister had and he's scored 5 TD's on defense. And, of course, Clements is younger than they were at the time because he entered the league as a 20 year old. The guy is just entering his prime. You call it being effective when he wants to be, but it's called maturity. Look around the league. The top corners get better from the age of 26-30 than they were from 22-26.

 

Whitner got $12.9M guaranteed, he was seeking $14M(so, yeah). Funny how inconsequential those figures become after the fact, isn't it.

 

Clements being here or gone makes no difference to my life. If it makes your life easier, I suggest you find something you enjoy doing outside of your hobbies. This is just a place where we discuss a pasttime. The team would be a lot better with Clements than without and the reasons to NOT retain him are ill conceived, end of story.

[apuszczalowski]

Clements being here or gone makes no difference to my life. If it makes your life easier, I suggest you find something you enjoy doing outside of your hobbies. This is just a place where we discuss a pasttime. The team would be a lot better with Clements than without and the reasons to NOT retain him are ill conceived, end of story.

Actually, this isn't even really a hobby for me, Posting here is just something I do when I'm bored or not busy at work.

 

I guess your right, the Defence will be so much better if they tie up all of their money in Clements so we can have a Corner, who in a Tampa 2 defence, does not create turnovers.

 

It would be a horrible idea to instead take the money they would have used on Clements and use it to fix both lines, so they can actually be able to stop the run.

[stuckincincy]

Actually, this isn't even really a hobby for me, Posting here is just something I do when I'm bored or not busy at work.

 

You have a sap boss.

[Ozymandius]

Actually, this isn't even really a hobby for me, Posting here is just something I do when I'm bored or not busy at work.

 

I guess your right, the Defence will be so much better if they tie up all of their money in Clements so we can have a Corner, who in a Tampa 2 defence, does not create turnovers.

 

It would be a horrible idea to instead take the money they would have used on Clements and use it to fix both lines, so they can actually be able to stop the run.

 

The problem is fixing the lines isn't going to happen either. Not unless "cash to cap" was a smokescreen. The number of premier free agents available is dwindling, and somehow I doubt the Bills are going to outbid the big boys for the ones remaining.

[apuszczalowski]

The problem is fixing the lines isn't going to happen either. Not unless "cash to cap" was a smokescreen. The number of premier free agents available is dwindling, and somehow I doubt the Bills are going to outbid the big boys for the ones remaining.

Who says fixing the lines won't happen? For what Nate would receive a couple of linemen could come in and make a difference, and Marv has already singled the lines and LB's out as being problems they are looking at fixing

 

premier FA are going to guarantee the lines are fixed. Alot of the time, linemen are not considered premier guys and some can be found under the radar.

[Ozymandius]

Who says fixing the lines won't happen? For what Nate would receive a couple of linemen could come in and make a difference, and Marv has already singled the lines and LB's out as being problems they are looking at fixing

 

premier FA are going to guarantee the lines are fixed. Alot of the time, linemen are not considered premier guys and some can be found under the radar.

 

Which of last year's non-premier free agents fixed the lines? Marv's track record with non-premier guys isn't good. Of course, it's not a long track record yet, so we shall see... However, the situation of limited funds combined with limited impact free agents available is dubious for fixing the lines.

[apuszczalowski]

Which of last year's non-premier free agents fixed the lines? Marv's track record with non-premier guys isn't good. Of course, it's not a long track record yet, so we shall see... However, the situation of limited funds combined with limited impact free agents available is dubious for fixing the lines.

In one year he wasn't going to fix anything. Usually the first year is to get your schemes/system in place, and then see what you have. The second offseason is then used to fill holes. Last offseason the Bills needed replacements at every position on the line except for maybe 3-4 spots. Now I think they have got it down to 1-2 Guards (if they don't re-sign Gandy) and maybe some one else in at RT incase Pennington struggles on the offence, and a DT to add to the rotation to stop the run and take over for Tim Anderson, and maybe a DE to replace Kelsay if he leaves and they don't resign Hargrove. Otherwise Depth is needed.

 

Actually Marvs track record with non premier guys is pretty good as a GM. There was only 1-3 flops from FA last year, others either played decent or really well. Reyes, and Bowen (only due to injury), and Nall (only because he wound up 3rd stringer after an injury and limited training camp) were flops. Tripplett, Price, were decent. Royal played well except for one bad play in the endzone. A-Train played well, along with Fowler. Sure none of them were Pro Bowlers, but neither was Clements and everyone wants the Bills to pay him whatever he wants.

[Dawgg]

A-Train, Fowler and Kiwauke Thomas were good signings. All produced and matched their contracts. I beg to differ with Price, Royal and Bowen.

 

Peerless Price: Overpaid at 4yrs $10M. In 2006, he made $800K base with a $2.7M signing bonus. ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? This for someone who had been cut from 2 different teams in two years? The Patriots managed to sign Reche Caldwell for a lot less and got much better production out of him.

 

Robert Royal: Overpaid at 5yrs $10M. In 2006, he made about $600K with a $2.5M signing bonus. This guy has hands of stone and is not a good pass catcher, as evidenced by the Tennessee game AND a few others. He is a solid locker room guy, so perhaps the jury is still out... but I certainly wouldn't call this a coup by any means.

 

 

Bowen was signed to a fairly hefty contract despite the fact that Bills' brass had been targeting Whitner in the first round. If I am not mistaken, he made over $1M per year -- for a backup safety?

 

 

 

 

Actually Marvs track record with non premier guys is pretty good as a GM. There was only 1-3 flops from FA last year, others either played decent or really well. Reyes, and Bowen (only due to injury), and Nall (only because he wound up 3rd stringer after an injury and limited training camp) were flops. Tripplett, Price, were decent. Royal played well except for one bad play in the endzone.

[dave mcbride]

A-Train, Fowler and Kiwauke Thomas were good signings. All produced and matched their contracts. I beg to differ with Price, Royal and Bowen.

 

Peerless Price: Overpaid at 4yrs $10M. In 2006, he made $800K base with a $2.7M signing bonus. ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? This for someone who had been cut from 2 different teams in two years? The Patriots managed to sign Reche Caldwell for a lot less and got much better production out of him.

 

Robert Royal: Overpaid at 5yrs $10M. In 2006, he made about $600K with a $2.5M signing bonus. This guy has hands of stone and is not a good pass catcher, as evidenced by the Tennessee game AND a few others. He is a solid locker room guy, so perhaps the jury is still out... but I certainly wouldn't call htis a coup by any means.

 

Royal was also overpaid @ $2.5M and has hands of stone.

 

Bowen was signed to a fairly hefty contract despite the fact that Bills' brass had been targeting Whitner in the first round. If I am not mistaken, he made over $1M per year -- for a backup safety?

 

Question: given that the Bills were over twenty million dollars under the cap, what does it matter whether Price got a signing bonus of two point whatever million as opposed to one point whatever million. I mean, who cares? It's irrelevant. Anyway, he was ok, and he made a few big plays over the course of the season. It wasn't as if he was a total bust. Why people fret over these marginal yet innoffensive starters with inconsequential salaries is beyond me.

[oregonbbfan]

I feel we can help ourselves more by using the rediculous money Clements will get from some crazy team by getting more players. Hopefully up front rushers who will allow us to work with less costly CB's. It's amazing how over 5 years they always play better in the contract year. Also, as a high No.1 draft choice who made what, 10-20 million( don't recall exact amount, still a lot) dollars is worried about taking care of their family. I am for taking care of family but how much is enough? First contract $10+ million, Franchise $7+ million and now a large contract. I know all don't get those opportunities or money, but don't tell me about family, call it what it is, greed!

 

Now for that greed and little loyalty, I say Marv made a large mistake. Marv should have said last year after the first tag, Nate come to camp and if we cannot hammer something out, I will tag you next year but you will be free to seek a trade or contract with anyone you wish and we will even reduce the compensation to 1 first , not the required 2. Just like TD did with Price. Tell Nate we want something for our efffort, risk and past salary. That way we get something for him instead of nothing like now. I'm not a TD fan but if he had a commodity that was top guy in FA, do you not think he would get something? And it would be fair to Nate because he goes where he wants, maybe a few less million but who's counting when we are tasking $50+ million. I know, NATE

 

Marv gave his word and couldn't go back on it, but would it hurt for Nate to release Marv from his word to give something back to Buffalo since he knows we cannot match. Just a thought.

[Dawgg]

I'll respond with a question of my own: why do people act as if we have unlimited $ to spend???

 

For a team like the Bills, who clearly cannot compete with their high revenue counterparts, those little things DO matter. It is critical that they get maximum value from the $ spent. By doing so, they can occassionally accommodate a contract like the one Nate Clements will receive. But when you allocate a combined $35M on Josh Reed, Robert Royal, Matt Bowen, Peerless Price and Tutan Reyes, then it comes back to bite you when you have an actual DESERVING player up for an extension!

 

The Patriots went after Peerless Price too -- and offered him a 1-year deal for under a million bucks. That's about what he deserved.

 

 

Question: given that the Bills were over twenty million dollars under the cap, what does it matter whether Price got a signing bonus of two point whatever million as opposed to one point whatever million. I mean, who cares? It's irrelevant. Anyway, he was ok, and he made a few big plays over the course of the season. It wasn't as if he was a total bust. Why people fret over these marginal yet innoffensive starters with inconsequential salaries is beyond me.

[BADOLBILZ]

Actually, this isn't even really a hobby for me, Posting here is just something I do when I'm bored or not busy at work.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought it was something you liked to do in your spare time. You know, like Webster's defines "hobby".

[BillsVet]

Actually, this isn't even really a hobby for me, Posting here is just something I do when I'm bored or not busy at work.

 

I guess your right, the Defence will be so much better if they tie up all of their money in Clements so we can have a Corner, who in a Tampa 2 defence, does not create turnovers.

 

It would be a horrible idea to instead take the money they would have used on Clements and use it to fix both lines, so they can actually be able to stop the run.

 

Unfortunately, IF NC leaves, we'll have to wait until September to tell the true effect of his loss. Should anyone dominate us like Roy Williams did for Detroit, who is there for us to rely on? As far as I can tell, Dallas and the Giants play Buffalo next season. Now, I'm no great fan of TO and Plaxico Burress, but they're big wideouts. Can Terrence McGee cover those two? Probably not. NC gave us a physical corner who matches up well with physical wRs'. We can nitpick about Chris Chambers back in 2005, but I think NC is not even at his top level of play and played at a high level more often than not. He was a significant reason we did not allow a 300 yard passer all season.

 

Let's say NC gets 8M per over 7 yrs and 15M in a signing bonus. Sure, it's a lot of money. But, you have a player in or approaching his prime who can be relied on to hold down a premier wideout. No CB is perfect, but having a player who can be left alone is so comforting. Jason Peters is left alone, and while LT and CB are vastly different positions, they require a high level of trust from the coaching staff. You can argue the Cover 2 doesn't demand WR's to be man to man, but good WR's, when in the right spot, can find the holes in the Cover-2. Sports Illustrated had an excellent article back in December about the Cover-2 and they mentioned this fact.

 

And while we're on the subject of rebuilding the lines, you get what you pay for. Buffalo did seem to overpay their FA's last season. According to Clumping Platelets' cap page, we took a cap hit of 8.3M on Fowler, Reyes, Villarrial, and Royal combined. Is it better to have one player who can play regularly at a high level, or have four who are average or slightly less? That, in essence, is what the team must decide. If they choose the latter, well, a team full of average players won't get you very far. And BTW, how long will we be going after depth players? If we follow that path, it makes two years (2006 and 2007). Eventually, you've got to have above average players somewhere. Lee Evans, Jason Peters, Aaron Schobel, and Angelo Crowell along with Brian Moorman seem to be our top end starters. Indy had a talented O-Line, but they could run and pass block consistently. Ours, in its current state could not. Could one more FA O-Lineman who has played at a high level be better than three or four below average to average ones? We'll see. TD didn't do so well adding the O Lineman he did. What makes us think doing that now will make us better? Free Agency will reveal a lot about this team. The draft is a great event for team building, but Marv himself said they don't depend on rookies to make an immediate impact.