PFW Whispers

[Dibs]

PFW Whispers

 

Though he left Buffalo on bad terms and was much maligned by Bills fans, ex-GM Tom Donahoe deserves credit for acquiring 16 of the team’s 24 starters.

 

Firstly.....how is that comment a whisper? For years I've enjoyed going to PFW whispers to hear little tid bits of rumour/information. This is the first time I recall seeing a 'whisper' being an opinion/statement.....what next? "We understand Tom Brady is a really good QB and many people like him a lot."

 

Secondly.....TD was in charge for 5 years. How many starters is it possible to replace in 1 off-season? 7 draftees(standard) and....how many FA starters was Marv. & Co suppose to bring in? Not to mention the copious backups that were replaced.

 

The last three year or so my respect for PFW has gone from 'best publication(top internet site)' to 'hardly worth the effort to look'.

[MRW]

Yeah, so since the new administration only replaced 1/3 of Donahoe's starters, he must've done a great job! Like you, I don't get it.

 

Of course, the argument was never that Donahoe was a complete incompetent, but that he didn't have the team moving in a positive direction. His coaching hires were more of a black mark for him than any player personnel decisions he oversaw IMO.

[SilverNRed]

LOL

 

The only way for TD to not be responsible for that many starters is if he added no good players and kept everyone here from before he showed up or if Marv Levy emptied out the entire roster to make room for new people in his first offseason.

[duey]

PFW...

[RJsackedagain]

Hmmmm, wonder if Soprano ended up at PFW

[BuffOrange]

Yeah, so since the new administration only replaced 1/3 of Donahoe's starters, he must've done a great job!

857281[/snapback]

 

[jester43]

so we've gone from "awful" to "almost mediocre" using 16 of his players and now we're supposed to be grateful? That is so freaking stupid it's almost obscene.

 

So I suppose when we go from "almost mediocre" to "slightly bettter than average" next year with 10 of his guys, they'll want us to build a !@#$ing statue of him outside the stadium?

[loadofmularkey]

so we've gone from "awful" to "almost mediocre" using 16 of his players and now we're supposed to be grateful?  That is so freaking stupid it's almost obscene. 

 

So I suppose when we go from "almost mediocre" to "slightly bettter than average" next year with 10 of his guys, they'll want us to build a !@#$ing statue of him outside the stadium?

857731[/snapback]

 

Yeah, exactly. We're 5-7 for God's sake. But what credit TD deserves! If it weren't for those 16 Pro Bowlers we'd probably be winless! The constant fellating this guy gets from the media is unreal.

[Nostradamus]

Yeah, so since the new administration only replaced 1/3 of Donahoe's starters, he must've done a great job!  Like you, I don't get it.

 

Of course, the argument was never that Donahoe was a complete incompetent, but that he didn't have the team moving in a positive direction.  His coaching hires were more of a black mark for him than any player personnel decisions he oversaw IMO.

857281[/snapback]

The 01 draft was his defining moment. Picking at 4, Donahoe had a chance to pick a franchise player; instead he chose the one man who can give Kobiochi a run for his money in the hot dog eating contest. Everyone exonerates Donahoe by saying noone could have foreseen that he would be a bust. Well, if you're drafting someone, the onus is on you to know a little bit more than everyone else. As a result, our O-line has been in shambles ever since.

[ganesh]

The 01 draft was his defining moment. Picking at 4, Donahoe had a chance to pick a franchise player; instead he chose the one man who can give Kobiochi a run for his money in the hot dog eating contest. Everyone exonerates Donahoe by saying noone could have foreseen that he would be a bust. Well, if you're drafting someone, the onus is on you to know a little bit more than everyone else. As a result, our O-line has been in shambles ever since.

857817[/snapback]

 

Since NFL is the absolute team game, the success or failure of your draft pick depends on the surroundings. Williams in addition to all his problems had horrible OL coaches in his first 3 years. When a team is not winning, it rubs the wrong way on the players and it is hard to motivate them. Unfortunately for us, Mike Williams could not raise to the occasion to be that player to motivate the entire team. But neither could a TKO on the old bengals team.

[apuszczalowski]

The 01 draft was his defining moment. Picking at 4, Donahoe had a chance to pick a franchise player; instead he chose the one man who can give Kobiochi a run for his money in the hot dog eating contest. Everyone exonerates Donahoe by saying noone could have foreseen that he would be a bust. Well, if you're drafting someone, the onus is on you to know a little bit more than everyone else. As a result, our O-line has been in shambles ever since.

857817[/snapback]

Thje o-line is not in shambles because MW did not pan out like everyone said he would, and at the time, it was the right choice, looking back now it was not. The o-line has been in shambles because that pick seems to be the extent of TD's moves to rebuild the line. One first round pick and a bunch of lower FA pickups.

[keepthefaith]

Yeah, exactly.  We're 5-7 for God's sake.  But what credit TD deserves!  If it weren't for those 16 Pro Bowlers we'd probably be winless!  The constant fellating this guy gets from the media is unreal.

857794[/snapback]

 

I'm sure TD's goal is to return to the NFL as a GM somewhere. A good start for him would be to stay in contact with any warm and fuzzy contacts he has in the media and around the league in his own PR effort. My guess is that in his conversations with people he points out that some of "his guys" are doing fairly well. He'll need the positive PR to help his own cause. He's getting some of that.

[The Senator]

I think the only who cares less than me what the media writes about giving TD credit for the current Bills makeup is probably Marv!

 

I'll be the first to say that Donahoe made some very smart personnel moves, IMHO, such as JP, McGahee, Parrish, etc., but he also made some pretty stupid ones, too and was an arrogant prick who caused dissension throughout organization - and his biggest fiasco, for which we are still paying a tremendous price, is two failed head coaching choices.

 

If TD wants back into the NFL - great! Let him ruin someone else's team. With any luck, he'll end up in Miami!

[jester43]

 

I'll be the first to say that Donahoe made some very smart personnel moves, IMHO, such as JP, McGahee, Parrish, etc., but he also made some pretty stupid ones, too and was an arrogant prick who caused dissension throughout organization - and his biggest fiasco, for which we are still paying a tremendous price, is two failed head coaching choices.

 

 

857851[/snapback]

 

 

i just don't see why he gets so much credit for NOT effing up on SOME of the picks...I think 80% of the people here could have managed that. But as a body of work, his job here SUCKED. There is NO way around it!

[Hollywood Donahoe]

Are you guys beginning to understand the meaning behind my name now?

 

Most. Over-publicized. GM. Ever.

[loadofmularkey]

Are you guys beginning to understand the meaning behind my name now?

 

Most.  Over-publicized.  GM.  Ever.

857872[/snapback]

 

Ohh, now I get it.

[Lori]

If the 'whisperer' is who I think it is, I'm reasonably sure he's no TD fan, and he has no stake in whether or not Donahoe ends up back in the league. But does he have a valid point? Breaking it down...

 

DRAFT:

2001 (day 1) - Nate Clements, Aaron Schobel, Travis Henry, and Jonas Jennings all became quality starters; Clements and Henry have played in a Pro Bowl. Ron Edwards? Not so much. Four of five isn't bad, though.

2001 (day 2) - Nobody of consequence.

 

2002 (day 1) - BIG miss with Big Mike Williams. Second-rounders Josh Reed and Ryan Denney seem to have outgrown their status as TSW's favorite whipping boys, unlike third-round pick Coy Wire.

2002 (day 2) - Justin Bannan and Mike Pucillo are still in the league (although in Pucillo's case, I still wonder why). Kevin Thomas was making plays before ripping up his knee.

**Gotta put the Bledsoe trade in here somewhere. Like him or hate him, you hafta admit he was an upgrade over the 2001 QB corps. Was that reason enough to deal a #1 pick to get him? Open to debate.

 

2003 (day 1) - McGahee, Kelsay, Crowell. All starting.

2003 (day 2) - McGee's a pretty good fourth-round find, no? Aiken and Haggan are still on the roster, but solely for STs at this point.

 

2004 (day 1) - Evans, Losman, Anderson. Lee is a stud. Jury is still out on Jonathan Paul. Anderson's a 'depth' guy at best.

2004 (day 2) - Euhus, McFarland, Fast Freddie. Gone, all gone.

 

2005 (day 1) - No #1 because of the J.P. trade/pick. Parrish and Everett. The Jacksonville game is a loss without Roscoe, who was leading the league in punt-return average before Devin Hester's latest long touchdown dropped him to #2. (He also recently qualified for, and took over, the franchise record for career PR average.)

It's still early in his career and he's coming off an ACL injury, but Everett sure looks like a bust.

2005 (day 2) - Duke Preston is the only one left.

 

FREE AGENCY:

The good - Takeo Spikes, Sam Adams, Larry Centers, and Brian Moorman have all been to at least one Pro Bowl in a Bills uniform; London Fletcher should be on that list as well. Lawyer Milloy and Troy Vincent put up some good numbers at safety before age/injury caught up to them. Rian Lindell is 64-70 from 40 yards and in (91.4 %), 87-106 overall (82.1 %); factoring in the Buffalo weather, I've seen worse. Before him, Mike Hollis gave us a decent year before pricing himself out of the market. Marcus Price filled a need as a swing tackle. Kelly Holcomb is a solid #2 QB.

And if you like our current starting LT, remember he was an UDFA snagged by Donahoe.

 

Mediocre - Signing Trey Teague to play LT. (We'll never know how that would have worked... which, I guess, probably tells us how well that would have worked...) Jeff Posey made a couple of big plays here, but never really fit. Mark Campbell was an adequate TE; he certainly had better hands than Royal. Dave Moore, Ross Tucker, Lawrence Smith, Mike Gandy, Chris Villarial, and any other street FAs signed for the OL probably go here as well... with one rather large exception.

 

Ugly: Billy Jenkins. 'Coach' Eddie Robinson. Bennie Anderson. Whacking Steve Christie and replacing him with a a not-yet-ready-for-prime-time Shayne Graham and Jake Arians. (If there's anyone I'm missing, I'm sure someone will be along to add their names to the mix.)

And that doesn't include the head-coaching choices, or some purely financial decisions (like letting Pat Williams walk).

 

From a recent column by longtime Bills beat reporter Chuck Pollock:

"On the issues of perceived arrogance and bunker-mentality paranoia, Donahoe is unexpectedly guilty...

He's fully answerable for the misguided head-coaching hirings of Gregg Williams and Mike Mularkey. But in the area of talent evaluation, time could well prove him to be more than capable."

 

Overall, 31-49 doesn't lie... but despite the vitriol directed at him, Donahoe was far from the worst GM in Bills history, and several of the players he signed or drafted are still making a significant impact here. That, I believe, was the point said 'whisperer' was trying to make -- and I have to agree.

 

Just my opinion; yours may vary. That's cool. Just don't assume that every single statement regarding a certain player/coach/administrator is a surefire sign of a hidden agenda, okay? Thanks.

[ganesh]

If the 'whisperer' is who I think it is, I'm reasonably sure he's no TD fan, and he has no stake in whether or not Donahoe ends up back in the league. But does he have a valid point? Breaking it down...

 

 

857927[/snapback]

 

There are lots of good picks in them, but how many have them been outstanding....someone who consistently goes to the pro-bowl.

 

Also, Donahoe was the GM and President of this organization and his effort has to be judged as a whole rather than parts of it.

 

Good:

1. Drafted a bunch of good players (but not any great players up to this point).

2. Increased the season-ticket base, sold out most of the games during his tenure

3. signed a good set of FA in TKO, Milloy, Fletcher, but came up empty on the

offensive side of the football.

 

Bad:

1. Held a iron fist in management which many in OBD did not like

2. Made personnel moves that were second guessing his coaches

3. Spent too many draft picks at skill positions that has not panned out

 

Ugly:

1. Hired two horrible head coaches who could not take this team anywhere.

2. Could not build the Offensive or Defensive lines, the most crucial part for

building the team.

3. Showed double standards in dealing with the release of Bledsoe and Henry. One

he let go to sign with another team the very next day and the other, he haggled

for months before getting a 3rd round pick in a trade.

[Lori]

All valid points, ganesh, but if said 'whisperer' is thinking along the same lines as Pollock's column, I understand his reasoning. I can give credit where it's due for certain parts of the process, while still disliking the overall outcome...

[l< j]

Doesn't this claim that TD got good players in here who are producing for the new guys just highlight how crappy he was in picking leaders and planners for the coaching staff?

 

This doesn't really make him look any better.

 

kj