Why throw an entire season away because of one!

[DeLuca1967]

Oh really? Is this based on your vast QB evaluation skills and years of studying QB tape? Or maybe you were an NFL QB yourself. Are you an NFL scout, or coach QBs professionally?

821942[/snapback]

 

You don't have to be a veterinarian to recognize dogzhit.

 

You can hold on to Losman as tight as you want to. All you are doing is wasting time. This is another year wasted. Another year without our next "franchise QB". It took Todd Collins 17 games to prove he couldn't hack it. Losman has taken less.

 

But maybe it's a good thing. With the money spent on Dante I doubt the Fins would draft a QB next year with the #1 pick. That means the Bills will have the pick of the QB litter with the #2 overall pick.

 

Losman may start the final 9 games. But at least it will be his final 9 games in a Bills uniform.

[Pyrite Gal]

I never said that.

 

I also think it is time to start thinking about another QB. If you want to bring other QB's into this fray? Let's

 

It took only 17 starts to realize/prove that Todd Collins couldn't cut it as an NFL starter. How many starts does Losman have? 15 I think.

 

Let's compare other numbers.

 

Com%

Losman 55.3

Collins  54.7 - Only 3 completions behind.

 

TD's

Losman 14

Collins  12

 

INT's

Losman 15

Collins  13

 

YPA

Losman 6.24

Collins 6.20

 

Comp 20+

Losman 31

Collins  38

 

Comp 40+

Losman 9

Collins 12

 

I guesss you would say Collins deserved more time under you guidelines

 

If you want I can pull up the Rob Johnson numbers.

820666[/snapback]

 

Sorry, but worked call and I was away for a couple of days. However, my response is that the objective facts and context that you lack are not the facts that JP's play in areas such as turnovers. 3rd dowm conversions, etc are clear amd at best JP is inadequate overall and has really sucked the last 3 games.

 

The objective facts your arguments lack is why you think that even given the fact his play has been inadequate and sucks we would be better off to make a QB switch to Nall or Holcomb.

 

The facts are that Holcomb sucked worse than JP did running the Fairchild offense in pre-season and given his failure to win a starting job in 9 years as a pro or to take the Bills job snd play good QB when he had every chance to do this last year and when he went into this season first of the depth chart, there is no logical reason why one would switch to him.

 

KH is a reasonable back-up QB because when other teams have used him in this role whem they were forced to, he has done some good work, but outside of a seemingly childlike desire to want to see different because one is to weak in the stomach to see if JP turns it around, there really seems to be no logical reason to go with Holcomb.

 

There is at least some case to made to go with Nall who is a younger player. but really there is no logical reason to think that our disaster QB can somehow immediately play adequately as a starter.

 

Not only does he seem to be a better option than Holcomb due to his age, Nall's failure to win the job in pre-season was in large part due to him not getting a real shot at earning the job due to injury.

 

However, this would seem to be a good argument for making him #2 abd seeing how he looks in practice and with more reps the starters rather than panicking and throwing him into a situation where he would seem to being set up for failure.

 

No one argues at all that JP is playing even adequately. What i think is the rational argument here is that there seems to be not only no logical reason to switch to KH or nall, but you seem to argue that you do not care, you are simply sick of JP and therefore you argue we should act with no logical reason.

 

If you want to make even a semi-rational argument then you would not need to focus on JP sucking (we all agree and that is why folks think he needs to develop) but instead should focus on why you think KH or Nall have shown some onjective indication that they can get the job done.

 

You have not done that and most people simply do not advocate that the Bills do something irrational at QB.

[ganesh]

They seem to stand firm when it comes to the qb position and that they are sold on Losman, unlike the media and some fans.

822034[/snapback]

 

And ultimately I think that is what matters the most.

[34-78-83]

You don't have to be a veterinarian to recognize dogzhit.

 

You can hold on to Losman as tight as you want to. All you are doing is wasting time. This is another year wasted. Another year without our next "franchise QB". It took Todd Collins 17 games to prove he couldn't hack it. Losman has taken less.

 

But maybe it's a good thing. With the money spent on Dante I doubt the Fins would draft a QB next year with the #1 pick. That means the Bills will have the pick of the QB litter with the #2 overall pick.

 

Losman may start the final 9 games. But at least it will be his final 9 games in a Bills uniform. 

822461[/snapback]

 

what you look for is progress in a young QB, and if you take JP's work at the position and compare last season to this you will see undeniable progress. Please refer to this post which lists some of these improvements that even show up in his "poor" games this season. Improved QB Skills

This is not a statistical comparison mind you. It is an angle more akin to the one that would be taken by coaches and staff. Feel free to comment.

[apuszczalowski]

You can't take away turnovers. It's like saying "Take away the sacks and Rob Johnson is a solid NFL QB".

 

Turnovers are a big part of Losman's game. Maybe the biggest. You take away turnovers from any QB and they would all be in the Hall of Fame. 

 

Considering Levy and Jouron's record with QB's I don't think it's a good thing. When did Levy every have to draft a QB and bring him along? Don't say Kelly. You would be wrong. He was a Bills draft pick before Levy came along. And Ted Marchibroda (sp?) did all the coaching that made Kelly a HOF'er. And Jouron? What QB did he help rise to stardom?

 

The fact that Levy and Jouron are no QB experts makes them being "sold" on Losman another reason to think Losman doesn't have what it takes.

822452[/snapback]

I only said take away the turnovers because that is an area he would need to improve on and if I didn't the only responses I would get from you "QB experts" would have to do with his turnovers. I was trying to compare the rest of his stats and show how he compares.

 

As for Rob Johnson, yes take away the Sacka and he could have been a decent QB, but it was hard to judge because all those sacks were taking him off the field with more injuries.

 

I don't care what their previous records with QB's were, Marv Had Jim as his starter for the majority of his time in Buffalo. He did not draft any QB's cause he was the coach, Polian and Butler did the drafting and chosing QB's. Last time I checked Jauron also was never the GM in Chicago and Detroit and had to use what he was given by the teams GM

 

They are the guys that see him in practice all week and review tapes on the field, I will take their word for it over some guy who spends his days at home trying to convince people he is a true fan of the team yet hates everything about them. Was JP there when B-rod and Peters were beating up your puppy too and thats why you hate him so much?

[DeLuca1967]

I only said take away the turnovers because that is an area he would need to improve on and if I didn't the only responses I would get from you "QB experts" would have to do with his turnovers. I was trying to compare the rest of his stats and show how he compares.

 

As for Rob Johnson, yes take away the Sacka and he could have been a decent QB, but it was hard to judge because all those sacks were taking him off the field with more injuries.

 

I don't care what their previous records with QB's were, Marv Had Jim as his starter for the majority of his time in Buffalo. He did not draft any QB's cause he was the coach, Polian and Butler did the drafting and chosing QB's. Last time I checked Jauron also was never the GM in Chicago and Detroit and had to use what he was given by the teams GM

 

They are the guys that see him in practice all week and review tapes on the field, I will take their word for it over some guy who spends his days at home trying to convince people he is a true fan of the team yet hates everything about them. Was JP there when B-rod and Peters were beating up your puppy too and thats why you hate him so much?

822993[/snapback]

 

Besides being named "Buffalo" what is there to like about this team? The talent level hasn't been this low since Greg Bell was the Bills #1 back.

 

What am I supposed to love about this team? They have no quality lineman on either side of the ball. The QB? Losman could not start for any other NFL team. They have one decent wideout. I good running back with very little big play ability. Their corners

have fell off the face of the earth. Their GM is 80+ year old rookie GM who thought Tuten Reyes was the answer. And their coach has had one winning season and when this season is over his winning percentage will be under .400.

 

What I am supposed to feel warn and fuzzy about. Maybe the a-hole pu$$y fans who held down a women having a baby while they jumped her husband. The franchise has become a joke and an embarassment to WNY and real WNY sports fans on and off the field.

[generaLee83]

I am so tired of hearing about how we have to find out about JP Losman so it doesn't matter if the Bills go 2-14. There are 50+ other players on this team that deserv a chance to show what they can do and deserve a chance to win every week.

 

Players like Lee Evans have to look at the stat sheet and wonder what his numbers could be if he had an actual NFL QB throwing him the Ball. But I guess it's OK to throw his season away because of Losman.

 

And what about McGahee. What kind of numbers would he be putting up if the Bills had any type of threat in the passing game. Teams are stacking up against the run knowing Losman can't beat them. But again it's OK to throw his season away because of Losman.

 

And don't forget about the defense. They held the Pats to 7 yards in the second quarter after a slow start. Yet Losman and the offense was unable to generate anything except short fields for their opponents. But again. It's OK to throw their seasons away because of Losman.

 

It's time to start thinking about the other players on this team. Losman has been given enough rope to hang himself and he has done just that. It's also time to remember that there are other players on this team. And those players deserve a chance to win some games. 

819464[/snapback]

 

 

blah blah blah blah

 

As if the whole team hasn't collectively sucked this year.

 

"those players deserve a chance to win some games"

 

Those "players" and Losman included have lost games this year with dumb penalties, inconsistent play and lack of discipline.

 

But go ahead, pin it on one guy.

[DeLuca1967]

Sorry, but worked call and I was away for a couple of days.  However, my response is that the objective facts and context that you lack are not the facts that JP's play in areas such as turnovers. 3rd dowm conversions, etc are clear amd at best JP is inadequate overall and has really sucked the last 3 games.

 

The objective facts your arguments lack is why you think that even given the fact his play has been inadequate and sucks we would be better off to make a QB switch to Nall or Holcomb.

 

The facts are that Holcomb sucked worse than JP did running the Fairchild offense in pre-season and given his failure to win a starting job in 9 years as a pro or to take the Bills job snd play good QB when he had every chance to do this last year and when he went into this season first of the depth chart, there is no logical reason why one would switch to him.

 

KH is a reasonable back-up QB because when other teams have used him in this role whem they were forced to, he has done some good work, but outside of a seemingly childlike desire to want to see different because one is to weak in the stomach to see if JP turns it around, there really seems to be no logical reason to go with Holcomb.

 

There is at least some case to made to go with Nall who is a younger player. but really there is no logical reason to think that our disaster QB can somehow immediately play adequately as a starter.

 

Not only does he seem to be a better option than Holcomb due to his age, Nall's failure to win the job in pre-season was in large part due to him not getting a real shot at earning the job due to injury.

 

However, this would seem to be a good argument for making him #2 abd seeing how he looks in practice and with more reps the starters rather than panicking and throwing him into a situation where he would seem to being set up for failure.

 

No one argues at all that JP is playing even adequately.  What i think is the rational argument here is that there seems to be not only no logical reason to switch to KH or nall, but you seem to argue that you do not care, you are simply sick of JP and therefore you argue we should act with no logical reason.

 

If you want to make even a semi-rational argument then you would not need to focus on JP sucking (we all agree and that is why folks think he needs to develop) but instead should focus on why you think KH or Nall have shown some onjective indication that they can get the job done.

822742[/snapback]

Doesn't that right there say it all. Even the Losman defenders say he sucks.

 

It's as simple as comparing the facts we know and what we don't know.

 

We Know Losman is not the answer. He will not be here next year.

 

We Know Holcomb is no long term answer. He is the smarter of the three QB's but doesn't have the arm strength.

 

We Don't Know anything about Nall. Why not find out. He can't be any worse than Losman. So what are the Bills losing out on. At least going into the offseason (which has really already started) you have a complete book on al the rostered QB's.

Maybe Nall could be good enough to hold the reigns while which ever QB the Bills pick in the first round.

 

The Bills don't lose anything by trying a different QB. Losman is not the answer. We know that. So let's move on and quit wasting anymore time.

 

 

You have not done that and most people simply do not advocate that the Bills do something irrational at QB.

[pBills]

"1. Holcomb and Nall show no real signs of being better options for winning with this team "

 

As I have said previously. I don't disagree with this point. I go back to my post that started this thread. Don't you think the Bills coaches owe it to the other 50+ players to at least give either Holcomb or Nall a try?

 

There is no evidence that either would be better. I do know that the QB that's in there now isn't getting the job done. He is responsible for 73% of the teams turnovers. The safety and the sack at the end of the half are two plays you wouldn't expect from a high school QB.

 

I do know that you are right that there will be no changes made at QB. There is no pressure to win on this coach or GM. Marv is there to make Ralph feel good. So there is no angry owner demanding results. 5-11 followed by another losing season. Does Ralph even care at this point?

 

I will continue to disagree with you that the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. The other guys in the locker room deserve a chance to find out.

819922[/snapback]

 

 

 

The other guys in the locker room could also be doing more themselves to bring this team out of it's funk. How many dropped passes has their been? Dumb penalties? Etc., etc., etc.

 

Holcomb, been there done that. Fact is, they owe him nothing more than his salary. He's a number two, maybe number three QB. That's proven.

 

Nall. I'm curious about, but would he be lights out compared to JP? Doubt it.

 

Again, you have to look past the QB. Not everything going wrong is his fault.

[DeLuca1967]

The other guys in the locker room could also be doing more themselves to bring this team out of it's funk.  How many dropped passes has their been?  Dumb penalties?  Etc., etc., etc.

 

Holcomb, been there done that.  Fact is, they owe him nothing more than his salary.  He's a number two, maybe number three QB.  That's proven.

 

Nall.  I'm curious about, but would he be lights out compared to JP?  Doubt it.

 

Again, you have to look past the QB.  Not everything going wrong is his fault.

823649[/snapback]

 

That's not even the point. What you are saying, like others, is the "Because you can't fix all the problems. Don't fix any" is insane.

 

Losman may not be the only reason this team is losing. But he is a big one. You have to start at some point fixing this team. QB is as good a place to start as any.

[BuffOrange]

I think the difference between you and the posters who disagree with you (and also the difference between you and the football professional who coach the Bills and Ralph who has money on the table( is that while you are unwilling to sit through 9 more games of the JP development saga they are willing to sit (coach and own) through this.

 

Oh really? Is this based on your vast QB evaluation skills and years of studying QB tape? Or maybe you were an NFL QB yourself. Are you an NFL scout, or coach QBs professionally?

 

Funny how absurd it is to question the professional coaches unless the criticism (ie playcalling) has to do with making excuses for JP.

[PacificCoastBillsFan]

Losman may not be the only reason this team is losing. But he is a big one. You have to start at some point fixing this team. QB is as good a place to start as any.

824216[/snapback]

 

Heck lets just fire the GM down, and have WM play qb / rb.

 

Get a life Deluca LMAO

[TDRupp]

I am so tired of hearing about how we have to find out about JP Losman so it doesn't matter if the Bills go 2-14. There are 50+ other players on this team that deserv a chance to show what they can do and deserve a chance to win every week.

 

Players like Lee Evans have to look at the stat sheet and wonder what his numbers could be if he had an actual NFL QB throwing him the Ball. But I guess it's OK to throw his season away because of Losman.

 

And what about McGahee. What kind of numbers would he be putting up if the Bills had any type of threat in the passing game. Teams are stacking up against the run knowing Losman can't beat them. But again it's OK to throw his season away because of Losman.

 

And don't forget about the defense. They held the Pats to 7 yards in the second quarter after a slow start. Yet Losman and the offense was unable to generate anything except short fields for their opponents. But again. It's OK to throw their seasons away because of Losman.

 

It's time to start thinking about the other players on this team. Losman has been given enough rope to hang himself and he has done just that. It's also time to remember that there are other players on this team. And those players deserve a chance to win some games. 

819464[/snapback]

 

This season will be dead by the time they make a change if they make a change and I believe it could happen by the Jax or SD game is JP does not have ood to very good games against GB and Hou. shoot, he said do fairly well against Indy too.

 

Not condoning it b/c I'd like us to ride JP all the way through the 13-14th game before giving Nall a shoot in JP does not pick up his decision making.

[DeLuca1967]

This season will be dead by the time they make a change if they make a change and I believe it could happen by the Jax or SD game is JP does not have ood to very good games against GB and Hou.  shoot, he said do fairly well against Indy too.

 

Not condoning it b/c I'd like us to ride JP all the way through the 13-14th game before giving Nall a shoot in JP does not pick up his decision making.

824337[/snapback]

 

The season died in Detroit.