Dan Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Bottom Line, look at every other QB in his Class, Eli Manning, Big Ben and Phillilp Rivers, look at what they all are doing, he can't play man, why do we have a hard time facing reality, we went thru this same thing with Deadsoe 805624[/snapback] I think you could argue that all of those guys have a far better team surrounding them. Do you really think any of those guys would have us in the playoffs by themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Bottom Line, look at every other QB in his Class, Eli Manning, Big Ben and Phillilp Rivers, look at what they all are doing, he can't play man, why do we have a hard time facing reality, we went thru this same thing with Deadsoe 805624[/snapback] Are the lines on those other three times better than ours? They also all have a stud TE, don't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 right....that's the plan that jaruon and levy have decided to go with. I expect JP to be in there for all 16 games, barring injury, and then they'll evaluate his performance and growth after the season. 805596[/snapback] Agreed. This team is not playoff bound no matter what. The run defense isn't good enough. The CBs are shaky. The O-line bites. The RB is questionable. Holcomb certainly isn't the QB of the future. Let's see what Losman is made of. If he sucks, he's done but we might as well give him the chance--he's the only potential QB of the future on the team (unless Nall is showing signs of life in practice--I don't know if he is). If Holcomb comes in, he won't play this team into the playoffs or a job next year. There's no benefit at all to Holcomb playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Losman is progressing about as good as expected the defense was terrible today, couldnt stop the run and couldnt cover Roy Williams do the Bills have a play where a WR comes across the middle, ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I should slap you. 805619[/snapback] Ive been backing this guy since day one. I realize our Oline is not great. But after watching other young qbs with similar OLines (not good) Im starting to think JP's not getting it.Either that or he is getting poor coaching. Smith on the Niners is on a crappy team but he doesnt hold on to the ball like JP does. He makes a decison. Im getting really tired of JP running around because he cant find anyone. I can see it happening from time to time but he does it once every 3 down set. Crap I just want someone confident that fires the ball out of there. cablelady I appreciate your loyalty. But Im losing patience and im an exceptionally patient guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Agreed. This team is not playoff bound no matter what. The run defense isn't good enough. The CBs are shaky. The O-line bites. The RB is questionable. Holcomb certainly isn't the QB of the future. Let's see what Losman is made of. If he sucks, he's done but we might as well give him the chance--he's the only potential QB of the future on the team (unless Nall is showing signs of life in practice--I don't know if he is). If Holcomb comes in, he won't play this team into the playoffs or a job next year. There's no benefit at all to Holcomb playing. 805637[/snapback] I can't believe there are still people who want Holcomb to start....I don't understand that at all. If JP isnt' the answer, then I'm all for us going after a guy like Schaub, or someone similar (though I don't know how many backups there are with strong potential as a starter right now other than him). It may just be that JP needs a little longer than someone like Rivers or Eli....so be it. But JP's experience last year plus a whole season this year should be pretty good evidence for marv and jauron to make a well-informed decision on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayFromDC Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I don't think our O-Line is that bad though, I mean if you actually played football you would understand that just as the O-Line makes the QB looks good the same thing works in reverse (remembering Reuben Brown blowing a gasket when Drew kept holding the ball one game) I mean what I see is a guy who lacks pocket awareness and is very indecisive in the pocket and is causing some of these sacks I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Ive been backing this guy since day one. I realize our Oline is not great. But after watching other young qbs with similar OLines (not good) Im starting to think JP's not getting it.Either that or he is getting poor coaching. Smith on the Niners is on a crappy team but he doesnt hold on to the ball like JP does. He makes a decison. Im getting really tired of JP running around because he cant find anyone. I can see it happening from time to time but he does it once every 3 down set. Crap I just want someone confident that fires the ball out of there. cablelady I appreciate your loyalty. But Im losing patience and im an exceptionally patient guy. 805643[/snapback] Why do you seem to feel that A.Smith is so much better than JP? From what I can tell, their stats are almost identical. JP has better wideouts, while Alex has the better weapon at TE and a better Oline. It's also Alex's second year in the system they are running out there, whereas JP is learning a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I don't think our O-Line is that bad though, I mean if you actually played football you would understand that just as the O-Line makes the QB looks good the same thing works in reverse While I think that's absolutely true of a veteran QB, I don't agree that it holds water when you're trying to groom a new kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morris Titanic Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 It doesn't matter whether you care or not. The GMs around the league care. A short guy only gets so many chances, and while Flutie had a few moments here and there, he never amounted to anything other than a marginal NFL starter. 805562[/snapback] Flutie amounted to a trip to the Pro Bowl and named as as an alernate in 2 of the 3 seasons he was given a chance as a starter. That is considerably above marginal. I would lay heavy odds against Loserman ever coming close to making that trip. Sorry for bringing up this history but I finally snapped watching the ghost of RJ play today. Bills fans have a history of defending losers and disparaging winners. Lossman believers are Rob's Knobs Part 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Why do you seem to feel that A.Smith is so much better than JP? From what I can tell, their stats are almost identical. JP has better wideouts, while Alex has the better weapon at TE and a better Oline. It's also Alex's second year in the system they are running out there, whereas JP is learning a new one. 805653[/snapback] Stats? I believe we have had that discussion may times before. If you go on stats than RJ is probably the best QB ever to wear a Bills uni. The problem is fumbles, awareness, lack of sacks, or sacks in the right instances, getting first downs and finding the receiver who goes beyond the yard markers are all something that "stats" don't tell. Again, no comment, at this point on Losman, but the couple of times earlier in the year I saw Smith, I was real impressed. They got killed today, and I didn't see them so I don't know how well they did. I do know that the commentators made a comment about how bad the 49'er defense was. And if you do want to go on stats, it's not even close, Smith blows Losman away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Only part of the QB position we need to focus on is backup. We need OL, DL, CB, FB and TE long before QB. 805527[/snapback] I'd like to see someone that could actually compete with Losman for the starting job. Schaub, a young guy, someone else. A QB can cure a lot of ills. I disagree about FB and TE long before QB, mainly because I don't think there is a lot of difference between players at that position (at least, well enough to not be surprises). I think you need to look at guys who can catch at TE, and guys who can block at FB, and sign them late. There isn't a lot of reason to invest a ton of resources in these positions. CB I'd put there as 4th after QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Flutie amounted to a trip to the Pro Bowl and named as as an alernate in 2 of the 3 seasons he was given a chance as a starter. That is considerably above marginal. I would lay heavy odds against Loserman ever coming close to making that trip. Sorry for bringing up this history but I finally snapped watching the ghost of RJ play today. Bills fans have a history of defending losers and disparaging winners. Lossman believers are Rob's Knobs Part 2. 805656[/snapback] whatever, man.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Why do you seem to feel that A.Smith is so much better than JP? From what I can tell, their stats are almost identical. JP has better wideouts, while Alex has the better weapon at TE and a better Oline. It's also Alex's second year in the system they are running out there, whereas JP is learning a new one. 805653[/snapback] Smith is decisive. He scambles rarely even though he has the skills to do so. He does it as a last resort. Your correct that stats are similar. I can't quantify why Smith is better. I watch him every week because im out here and my bro in law is a Niner fan and we watch football every weekend together. It just seems that Smith knows what he is going to do before the play starts. He tries to make the play work. I really think that JP is doubtful before every snap. Or at least it appears that way. Maybe he's a victim of bad play calling? Bad coaching? All I know its not working for him or the Bills. And the Niners OLine is currently depleted by injuries. Newberry, Larry Allen and old faithful Jonas Jennings are all injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Stats? I believe we have had that discussion may times before. If you go on stats than RJ is probably the best QB ever to wear a Bills uni. The problem is fumbles, awareness, lack of sacks, or sacks in the right instances, getting first downs and finding the receiver who goes beyond the yard markers are all something that "stats" don't tell. Again, no comment, at this point on Losman, but the couple of times earlier in the year I saw Smith, I was real impressed. They got killed today, and I didn't see them so I don't know how well they did. I do know that the commentators made a comment about how bad the 49'er defense was. And if you do want to go on stats, it's not even close, Smith blows Losman away. 805657[/snapback] That's exactly the reason I asked WHY he felt Smith was better I haven't seen any SF games, so I'm asking what exactly the differences are between the players. And what stats "blow losman away"?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I mean if you actually played football you would understand that just as the O-Line makes the QB looks good the same thing works in reverse statements like that make people sound like complete idiots so people who didnt play football cant understand it is what you're saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Smith is decisive. He scambles rarely even though he has the skills to do so. He does it as a last resort. Your correct that stats are similar. I can't quantify why Smith is better. I watch him every week because im out here and my bro in law is a Niner fan and we watch football every weekend together. It just seems that Smith knows what he is going to do before the play starts. He tries to make the play work. I really think that JP is doubtful before every snap. Or at least it appears that way. Maybe he's a victim of bad play calling? Bad coaching? All I know its not working for him or the Bills. 805662[/snapback] Do you think maybe the difference is, in fact, smarts? IIRC, A.Smith is a pretty sharp mofo....I'm not saying JP is a bag of bricks, but I recall Alex being exceptionally intelligent. Maybe the mental aspects of the game come much more easily to him than to someone like JP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 That's exactly the reason I asked WHY he felt Smith was better I haven't seen any SF games, so I'm asking what exactly the differences are between the players. And what stats "blow losman away"?? 805663[/snapback] Ummm. how's about 2 less TD's in 5 games. How's about 1 less int. How's about 1 less fumble and 1 less lost fumble. How's about 200 yards more passing? How's about 8 points higher in the ratings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Ummm. how's about 2 less TD's in 5 games. How's about 1 less int. How's about 1 less fumble and 1 less lost fumble. How's about 200 yards more passing? How's about 8 points higher in the ratings? 805668[/snapback] wtf, lol.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 To put this loss and much of our poor play these last two weeks on Losman is the very definition of "not seeing the forest for the trees". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Flutie amounted to a trip to the Pro Bowl and named as as an alernate in 2 of the 3 seasons he was given a chance as a starter. That is considerably above marginal. I would lay heavy odds against Loserman ever coming close to making that trip. Sorry for bringing up this history but I finally snapped watching the ghost of RJ play today. Bills fans have a history of defending losers and disparaging winners. Lossman believers are Rob's Knobs Part 2. 805656[/snapback] Will you please just shut the hell up already? Geesh. We get your freaking point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ1 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Yeah, one with a third eye on the left side of his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morris Titanic Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Will you please just shut the hell up already? Geesh. We get your freaking point. 805671[/snapback] If you get my point, you can politely say, "I agree with you." instead of being a rude hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 If you get my point, you can politely say, "I agree with you." instead of being a rude hole. 805673[/snapback] My bad. Guess I "finally snapped" with all of your name-calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morris Titanic Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 My bad. Guess I "finally snapped" with all of your name-calling. 805676[/snapback] Go back and read the beginning of this thread. I did not start calling anybody names. I just agreed with the guy who stated the Bills would be better off with an old Flutie than what we currently have. Like anybody who dares to speak well of Doug, the abuse was hurled my way by the alumni of the Rob's Knobs fan club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Go back and read the beginning of this thread. I did not start calling anybody names. I just agreed with the guy who stated the Bills would be better off with an old Flutie than what we currently have. Like anybody who dares to speak well of Doug, the abuse was hurled my way by the alumni of the Rob's Knobs fan club. 805679[/snapback] RJ's fan club??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risin Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Smith is decisive. He scambles rarely even though he has the skills to do so. He does it as a last resort. Your correct that stats are similar. I can't quantify why Smith is better. I watch him every week because im out here and my bro in law is a Niner fan and we watch football every weekend together. It just seems that Smith knows what he is going to do before the play starts. He tries to make the play work. I really think that JP is doubtful before every snap. Or at least it appears that way. Maybe he's a victim of bad play calling? Bad coaching? All I know its not working for him or the Bills. 805662[/snapback] I'm a huge Bills fan, and therfore a huge Losman fan. I tend to "hate on" QB's drafted around the same time JP was, because I want JP to be better then them. In saying that, both Alex Smith and Philip Rivers are already more polished and better QB's, and are future studs in this league. I think JP is better then Big Ben (I know, he won a Super Bowl), and Eli all things being equal, but them two kids in California are gonna be good ones. I watch both of them every week on my Sunday Ticket, and I've rode them to a 6-0 record in my fantasy league. (I was laughed at when I drafted Rivers late, and laughed harder at when I traded Tom Brady for Alex Smith and Braylon Edwards) JP has all the physical talent in the world, but he is not in an ideal situation. He was very raw coming out of college, and with the supporting cast around him, all his weaknesses are being exposed. I pray to god he pans out, but unless this line is fixed the kid don't stand a chance. He makes too many boneheaded decisions under pressure, to ever be successful and consistant behind anything worse then an average oline. There is no shame in that, plenty of good QB's play bad behind poor offensive lines. I'm also getting concerned with his lack of accuracy on the deep ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayFromDC Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 WOOWW!!! JP better than BIG BEN and equal to Eli Manning, Come on MAn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile High Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I knew before I logged on that this was going to be the "hot" topic. Who are the crusaders tonight? As I look through my Romper Room magic mirror I see......... Are some off you ready to jump off the bridge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risin Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 WOOWW!!! JP better than BIG BEN and equal to Eli Manning, Come on MAn 805682[/snapback] All things being equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayFromDC Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 My man Max I wasn't trying to make anybody sound like a complete idiot, but you have a percentage of fans who try to analyze things like they are Jaws or somebody and have never played before, something's I believe you would have to have played the game to be able to understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Generally, I'd agree with you. But, I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to see that our OLine is pretty lousy on a consistent basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Go back and read the beginning of this thread. I did not start calling anybody names. I just agreed with the guy who stated the Bills would be better off with an old Flutie than what we currently have. Like anybody who dares to speak well of Doug, the abuse was hurled my way by the alumni of the Rob's Knobs fan club. 805679[/snapback] You're calling JP names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayFromDC Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 IF our line is so bad, why did we have the AFC's leading rusher coming into this game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCBongo Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 You can't start another QB. This is a go-nowhere season and we have to know once and for all if JP if going to be the Bills QB. So far, he has shown flashes of ability, but has also cost the team wins. As bad as he can get, having absolutley no back side protection on the line makes this an unfair evaluation. Any QB needs a line. Bledsoe needs a friggin trench and levy, JP needs at least 5 seconds with a seal on the left side. Kitna who is not as talented as JP had all day and made solid, deadly completions. I would suggest everyone get off the JP bashing for the season since I think we are stuck with him. If he doesn't improve we have to get someone in the draft or perhaps Graig Nall? And if not JP, then how many years until we find a QB and how many MORE years of rebuilding do have to face before we can have a team that doesn't embarrass the fans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risin Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 My man Max I wasn't trying to make anybody sound like a complete idiot, but you have a percentage of fans who try to analyze things like they are Jaws or somebody and have never played before, something's I believe you would have to have played the game to be able to understand 805687[/snapback] I played QB on a D3 college team, and know for a fact that my pass protection had EVERYTHING to do with my performance. I don't ever bring it up, for the simple fact that you get slammed for being arrogant. I also don't agree that you have to play the game to know anything. There are plenty of people here who never played at the college level, who have forgotten more then I'll ever know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Any QB needs a line. Bledsoe needs a friggin trench and levy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risin Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 IF our line is so bad, why did we have the AFC's leading rusher coming into this game? 805691[/snapback] Do you watch the games??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 IF our line is so bad, why did we have the AFC's leading rusher coming into this game? 805691[/snapback] Actually, McGehee was the 4th leading rusher (I think). But, perhaps its because he's good (which I know many refuse to believe). Also, perhaps its because several of the top rushers have had their buys; hence, they've played one less game. Also, perhaps our line is better at run blocking than pass blocking. Which begs the question, why all the 5 step drops today? Regardless, our line is pretty bad. I know it. Everyone with 2 eyes knows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taterhill Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 do I need to wear a helmet to participate in this thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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