Tortured Soul Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Since there'snothing else going on in Billsland today, I followed up on a hunch about playoff teams this year having many recent 1st round DT's. From 2000-2004, 18 DT's were drafted in the first round and an amazing 10 of those were in the playoffs (out of atotal of 22 playoff DT's). Here they are, with current team, year drafted, and draft number: Tommy Harris, Chi (04-14) the pick after Evans Marcus Tubbs, Sea (04-23) the pick after Losman Vince Wilfork, NE (04-21) Corey Simon, Ind (00-6) Casey Hampton, Pit (01-19) Gerard Warren, Den (01-3) Chris Hovan, TB (00-25) Marcus Stroud, Jax (01-13) John Henderson, Jax (02-9) Wiliam Joseph, NYG (03-25) Three of those players - Hovan, Warren, and Simon - are not with the teams that drafted them. Not coincidentally, the three teams that drafted them weren't in the playoffs. I think it's fair to draw a few conclusions from this. 1. Good teams invest in defensive tackles. 2. Defensive tackles are easy to grade. Good ones pan out at a high rate, and when they do not succeed, it is often a product of their situation. This is also true of offensive tackles. (Albert haynesworth and Kevin Williams are other recent examples of recent DT's that have performed well. 3. While there are ten recent 1st round DT's in the playoffs, there are only two recent 1st round LT's (Chris Samuels and Levi Jones). And yes, there are older ones, such as Walter Jones and Tarik Glenn. So, when it comes to possibly trading up for Da Brick or possibly trading down for Ngata, without even factoring in additional picks, I think there's a good case that it makes sense to pick a DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 So, when it comes to possibly trading up for Da Brick or possibly trading down for Ngata, without even factoring in additional picks, I think there's a good case that it makes sense to pick a DT. 572517[/snapback] I agree with this specific argument. I would love to have D'Brickashaw as our left tackle if he fell to us but I would rather not trade up for him. I think we are forgetting what an impact a huge, hole plugging DT can have on a Defense. We went from one of the best Defenses in the league to one of the worst in one season, primarily IMO because of the loss of Pat Williams. Ngata is not only valuable because of his ability to get into the opponents backfield. He has (at least in college) made it neccesary for his opponents to double and triple team him on every play. This factor alone will make the rest of our defense better. I believe that Ngata will be a difference maker in the NFL and if we can get him by trading down, I hope we do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 (edited) Since there'snothing else going on in Billsland today, I 572517[/snapback] Good post,. Get your OL in order first, and then DE's. However, the current B'gals are a good example of what happens without adequate DT's. Their DE's are adequate, the LB's are decent, the corners are ok, and the starting safeties are good (they lost 1 before the season started and the other after a few games - the fill-ins were marginal at best). But their DT's got pushed around. So-so pass pressure, and sieves against the run. I don't expect a DT to be a sack king - that's a bit of a rarity. Like buffaloboyinATL said, I do want ones that tie up OL's, push the pocket back, and allow the LB's to get into the play. Ngata seems to fit that bill. Some chipped at him for his OK-OR bowl game performance. What I saw was him tying up 2 OL's, and some other poster noted that he was clogging up passing lanes. I'll take that any day. Edited January 18, 2006 by stuckincincy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Since there's nothing else going on in Billsland today... 572517[/snapback] There are only two topics that will be tolerated today at TBD... 1. I LIKE DICK 2. I DON'T LIKE DICK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 There are only two topics that will be tolerated today at TBD... 1. I LIKE DICK 2. I DON'T LIKE DICK 572555[/snapback] wasnt flowers the last pac 10 d lineman the bills drafted? i think the last good defensive tackle drafted out of the entire conference was keith millard.......and it's been years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 It all boils down to who is going to be available at 8 doesn't it? Ferguson is a no, and the next best player at a position of need will most likely be Ngata, at least so far. I think we will almost certainly go DT because it will fill one of two absolutely essential needs. There are a couple of good tight ends who would be tempting, but I think we go with Ngata at 8 or maybe trade down for an extra second round draft choice. I don't see any offensive tackles that would warrant a selection at 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMIEBUF12 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 i wish we had two 1st picks lol i'd love a left defensive end and a defensive tackle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 It all boils down to who is going to be available at 8 doesn't it? Ferguson is a no, and the next best player at a position of need will most likely be Ngata, at least so far. I think we will almost certainly go DT because it will fill one of two absolutely essential needs. There are a couple of good tight ends who would be tempting, but I think we go with Ngata at 8 or maybe trade down for an extra second round draft choice. I don't see any offensive tackles that would warrant a selection at 8. 572608[/snapback] the chances of Marv, as a rookie GM with no network with other NFL GMs, making any trades on draft day are pretty slim. The likelihood goes to zero when you consider that the Bills never moved in the draft when Marv was working with Butler. Once Polian left, so did any creativity on draft day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 It all boils down to who is going to be available at 8 doesn't it? Ferguson is a no, and the next best player at a position of need will most likely be Ngata, at least so far. I think we will almost certainly go DT because it will fill one of two absolutely essential needs. There are a couple of good tight ends who would be tempting, but I think we go with Ngata at 8 or maybe trade down for an extra second round draft choice. I don't see any offensive tackles that would warrant a selection at 8. 572608[/snapback] you really want to chance your #1 on a pac-10 DT when there hasnt been a good one drafted out of that conference since keith millard? to me his last name might as well be Bust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 you really want to chance your #1 on a pac-10 DT when there hasnt been a good one drafted out of that conference since keith millard? to me his last name might as well be Bust 572623[/snapback] Hey...Tom Sestak came out of McNeese State. I think I'll go on the way the guy plays football rather than read tea leaves about the conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Hey...Tom Sestak came out of McNeese State. I think I'll go on the way the guy plays football rather than read tea leaves about the conference. 572627[/snapback] mcneese isnt in a major conference, they arent even bcs eligible...........of course every so often you might get a gem from a school like that, but the pac-10 has produced dozens of dt's that are given a shot in the nfl and they continually fail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMIEBUF12 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 how about mario williams? a good solid defensive end they seem harder to get as free agents then defensive tackles do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortured Soul Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 wasnt flowers the last pac 10 d lineman the bills drafted? i think the last good defensive tackle drafted out of the entire conference was keith millard.......and it's been years 572565[/snapback] I don't know enough about that. Do you have a list of flops? It all boils down to who is going to be available at 8 doesn't it? Ferguson is a no, and the next best player at a position of need will most likely be Ngata, at least so far. I think we will almost certainly go DT because it will fill one of two absolutely essential needs. There are a couple of good tight ends who would be tempting, but I think we go with Ngata at 8 or maybe trade down for an extra second round draft choice. I don't see any offensive tackles that would warrant a selection at 8. 572608[/snapback] My argument was a bit more hypothetical. Assuming equal grades on a DT and OT, I think the DT has higher value. Then, you can discuss specifics. the chances of Marv, as a rookie GM with no network with other NFL GMs, making any trades on draft day are pretty slim. The likelihood goes to zero when you consider that the Bills never moved in the draft when Marv was working with Butler. Once Polian left, so did any creativity on draft day. 572621[/snapback] Supposedly, Marv is still well-connected and takes pride in his connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Hey...Tom Sestak came out of McNeese State. I think I'll go on the way the guy plays football rather than read tea leaves about the conference. 572627[/snapback] And Bill's LB Paul Guidry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 how about mario williams? a good solid defensive end they seem harder to get as free agents then defensive tackles do 572671[/snapback] I don't know if I'd say that as a rule, but you do have a point about ends being much tougher to find in free agency than tackles. I mean, look @ how the Bears were able to land Ogunleye, Jacksonville was lucky enough to land Reggie Hayward, or how the Cardinals got Bert Berry from Denver. There are examples, but for the most part, I do think teams hang onto their ends until it becomes a salary cap issue (Kearse to the Iggles). In this year's free agency crop, I don't see many ends like those guys who can come in here and make an immediate impact. For that reason, I'd LOVE to see the Bills draft Super Mario if he's somehow available. That's also taking into consideration the Bills acquiring a run stuffing DT in free agency. Personally, I'm hoping for Ryan Pickett, but he might be too pricey. Grady Jackson or Ma'ake Kemoeatu might be less expensive prospects to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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