SDS Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Moreover, I can at least discern the difference as to Marv's GOALS when hiring personnel vs their ACTIONS after the fact. I don't think as poorly of him as you do, and would think that YOU are the one with issue here. 559094[/snapback] would you just read the damn passage he wrote and stop trying to manipulate it into a truth? The guy walked down a hall, looked at pictures and had delusions. It isn't that hard. Maybe we should all block out the fact that Bennett forced anal sex on a woman, but maybe we shouldn't write books proclaiming his virtues either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Holy crap... if you believe this crap then you are a bigger <fill in the blank> than I thought. Cornelius Bennett stuck some poor girl in the can against her will, Jim Kelly threw drinks in women's faces, partied his ass off, and stuck small businesses with the tab for his failed restaurant. Bruce Smith never participated in training camp, was suspended for substance abuse, and was found asleep at a stop light (I also believe there is a famous picture on the bench with his hat sideways). He also celebrated after EVERYTHING he did. Thurman Thomas told some poor kid to go f' his mother (or something similar)... I'm sure the list goes on and on and on... So if WM can even read, I expect him to throw the book back poor ol' Marv and call him a liar. 559048[/snapback] niiiiice. while i actually agree with some of what you say here, why do you so often have to resort to insults and mean-spirited rejoinders? i mean, really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 niiiiice. while i actually agree with some of what you say here, why do you so often have to resort to insults and mean-spirited rejoinders? i mean, really? 559177[/snapback] Just a pyschology experiment. "Levy fan" fills the blank too... Maybe a visit to Dr. Phil could help you with those self-esteem issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 And again, in the battle of minutae, the story is missed. Who gives a a barnacle whether the passage in Levy's book describes the players character correctly. If we start getting into the game of judging off-field activities, then we may as well stop pretending about who the majority of the players really are. If we get out the microscope, then every single one of us should have the brain examined for cheering a bunch of wife beating cokeheads on Sunday afternoons. But I digress.... I take Levy's passage describing his players as being the consumate professionals when the kick off whistle blew. Look at the locker room that Levy presided over - Kelly, Thomas, Reed, Smith, Bennett, Talley - each one of those guys is an oversized personality and ego. Isn't it awesome to kiddingly now refer to the Bickering Bills of '89, knowing that the team dominated AFC for the next 4 years? Well, guess what? How many coaches could have taken that disaster in the making and turn it into a cohesive unit that stands among the greatest runs in the NFL ever? That's what Levy is bringing back to the organization, whether he's on the sideline or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 And again, in the battle of minutae, the story is missed. If we start getting into the game of judging off-field activities, then we may as well stop pretending about who the majority of the players really are. If we get out the microscope, then every single one of us should have the brain examined for cheering a bunch of wife beating cokeheads on Sunday afternoons. 559370[/snapback] spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Holy crap... if you believe this crap then you are a bigger <fill in the blank> than I thought. Cornelius Bennett stuck some poor girl in the can against her will, Jim Kelly threw drinks in women's faces, partied his ass off, and stuck small businesses with the tab for his failed restaurant. Bruce Smith never participated in training camp, was suspended for substance abuse, and was found asleep at a stop light (I also believe there is a famous picture on the bench with his hat sideways). He also celebrated after EVERYTHING he did. Thurman Thomas told some poor kid to go f' his mother (or something similar)... I'm sure the list goes on and on and on... So if WM can even read, I expect him to throw the book back poor ol' Marv and call him a liar. 559048[/snapback] Maybe you need to remind us why you root for the Bills? Ya hate the owner, Hate the new GM only can rag about choking SB teams etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Who gives a a barnacle whether the passage in Levy's book describes the players character correctly. I find it topical because Levy seems to share a common trait with those who are cheering his return - a romanticizing of a past that never happened. But I digress.... I take Levy's passage describing his players as being the consumate professionals when the kick off whistle blew. You can take it any way YOU want, but you would need to disregard what was actually written. Backwards baseball caps have nothing to do play between the whistles. Marv was simply trying to elevate the team that played for him beyond their talent level. He was romanticizing that time period by trying to portray those guys as not only having superb tyalent, but of being of high moral character. In that way, he attempts to toot his own horn (I am a great man, I would only allow great men on my team, therefore I led great men, blah, blah, blah...) He should have written your version, but he didn't. How many coaches could have taken that disaster in the making and turn it into a cohesive unit that stands among the greatest runs in the NFL ever? Clearly, we will never know that answer, but IMHO the answer is a lot more than 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Brady Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 it would be wise for mcgahee to read this passage from marv's book, quoted in the article: Consider this passage from his book about when, during a visit to his office shortly after his retirement, he began looking at the photos on the hallway walls: "Those faces that stared back at me ... were a testament to the commitment that (former Bills GMs) Bill Polian, John (Butler), and I had made when we resolved to bring only men with solid character onto our team. There wasn't a 'look-at-me' showboat among them. There were no choreographed end-zone dancers who thought they were cute but really weren't. In fact, I don't recall seeing even one backward-baseball-cap-wearer up there. I never saw or heard any of our players indulge in degrading displays of blatant self-aggrandizement. All I saw were men who, if they wanted to brag, would have been justified in boasting, 'I came to play.' " 559034[/snapback] If this is all true , then what the hell was that dance and jig deal that Thurman did coming out of the tunnel in super bowl 26 in Minnesota.....Nothing said, hey look at me, I'm the greatest ect. ect. Bad part was only minutes later we all found out that he forgot where his helmet was located! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 If this is all true , then what the hell was that dance and jig deal that Thurman did coming out of the tunnel in super bowl 26 in Minnesota.....Nothing said, hey look at me, I'm the greatest ect. ect. Bad part was only minutes later we all found out that he forgot where his helmet was located! 559424[/snapback] The biggest showboat of all was Bruce, who actually played way beyond his usefulness to get a sack record. The ultimate "look at me" pursuit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kultarr Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I find it topical because Levy seems to share a common trait with those who are cheering his return - a romanticizing of a past that never happened. 559423[/snapback] Well, I happen to think it is Marv's right to remember his old teams in a positive light. Perhaps it is romanticizing. Perhaps it is a bit of overreaction to the critics that equate losing Super Bowls with total suckitude. One thing that gives me some ray of hope about all this: in the early part of Marv's stint as head coach in Buffalo, he had no qualms about getting rid of guys and bringing in the right players -- even "his" guys if they couldn't get with his program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Well, I happen to think it is Marv's right to remember his old teams in a positive light. Perhaps it is romanticizing. 559438[/snapback] I have no problems with that, his memories are his memories, but when you write something like that (the passage in question) that is just so easily dismissed then it isn't out of line to call him on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Cornelius Bennett stuck some poor girl in the can against her will559048[/snapback] It wasn't against her will...her can was just too small for Corny's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile High Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 It wasn't against her will...her can was just too small for Corny's.... 559450[/snapback] Wooooowie this thread sure is getting interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 The biggest showboat of all was Bruce, who actually played way beyond his usefulness to get a sack record. The ultimate "look at me" pursuit... 559426[/snapback] one thing we're forgetting is that as time passed -- starting with the 92 season or so -- the players under discussion became (on the field at least) more like what levy advocated than not. thomas became more likeable and didn't celebrate. same with bennett and smith. kelly too. i think they had been humbled a bit after the redskins loss, and i think that the win against the oilers led them to believe in the myth about themselves that was slowly emerging. the point is, they became more likeable (on the field, that is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 one thing we're forgetting is that as time passed -- starting with the 92 season or so -- the players under discussion became (on the field at least) more like what levy advocated than not. thomas became more likeable and didn't celebrate. same with bennett and smith. kelly too. i think they had been humbled a bit after the redskins loss, and i think that the win against the oilers led them to believe in the myth about themselves that was slowly emerging. the point is, they became more likeable (on the field, that is). 559463[/snapback] Perhaps we should just stop reminiscing about those teams...the way this thread is going, we'll be debating names to pull down off the wall of fame before we know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kultarr Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I have no problems with that, his memories are his memories, but when you write something like that (the passage in question) that is just so easily dismissed then it isn't out of line to call him on it. 559446[/snapback] Well, I thought you did call him on it. The Super Bills were not choir boys. What football team is? Marv is human like the rest of us and had/has his faults. I do happen to think that Marv was probably talking more about the character of professionalism of the players he kept on his team. Those guys were committed to doing their jobs to the best of their abilities; talent alone wouldn't have been enough for the success they had. Of course, the way the Bills franchise has disintegrated under the Donahoe regime has only increased the contrast so the halos appear all that much brighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I know I mentioned the "timeliness" of Marv's quote in another post in this thread, but I also forgot to mention the other reason why this is relevant. This whole "we are going after high character guys" is such utter BS and the fact that Marv mentioned it in his PC just further cements my image of him. As is evidenced by this thread - no one can even define what Marv means by "character", but it sure sounds good. Like a politician who is for education and for civil rights, who isn't going to cheer for that? Who says - "I want complete lowlifes on my team!!!"? GG thinks character means (if Marv is consistant frm past to present) playing hard between the whistles. Does TO not play hard? Did Deion Sanders not play hard? Did Bryan Cox not play hard? Are these the character guys that we are considering or avoiding? Would Steve Smith find a place on this team? He does a lot of celebrating... My point is - this whole "character" thing is equivalent to the CEO announcing the company will pursue "synergy". It's a buzz word that means squat. The Buffalo Bills need football players who have more talent than the other teams and they need better coaches who put those players in positions to take advantage of that talent. It is really that simple. No string of corny cliches have ever beaten a football team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Character is quite easy to define: Players who give 100%, buy into the team concept, and are upstanding citizens off the field. That pretty much describes teh New England Patriots to a "T" PTR I know I mentioned the "timeliness" of Marv's quote in another post in this thread, but I also forgot to mention the other reason why this is relevant. This whole "we are going after high character guys" is such utter BS and the fact that Marv mentioned it in his PC just further cements my image of him. As is evidenced by this thread - no one can even define what Marv means by "character", but it sure sounds good. Like a politician who is for education and for civil rights, who isn't going to cheer for that? Who says - "I want complete lowlifes on my team!!!"? GG thinks character means (if Marv is consistant frm past to present) playing hard between the whistles. Does TO not play hard? Did Deion Sanders not play hard? Did Bryan Cox not play hard? Are these the character guys that we are considering or avoiding? Would Steve Smith find a place on this team? He does a lot of celebrating... My point is - this whole "character" thing is equivalent to the CEO announcing the company will pursue "synergy". It's a buzz word that means squat. The Buffalo Bills need football players who have more talent than the other teams and they need better coaches who put those players in positions to take advantage of that talent. It is really that simple. No string of corny cliches have ever beaten a football team... 559478[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I know I mentioned the "timeliness" of Marv's quote in another post in this thread, but I also forgot to mention the other reason why this is relevant. This whole "we are going after high character guys" is such utter BS and the fact that Marv mentioned it in his PC just further cements my image of him. As is evidenced by this thread - no one can even define what Marv means by "character", but it sure sounds good. Like a politician who is for education and for civil rights, who isn't going to cheer for that? Who says - "I want complete lowlifes on my team!!!"? GG thinks character means (if Marv is consistant frm past to present) playing hard between the whistles. Does TO not play hard? Did Deion Sanders not play hard? Did Bryan Cox not play hard? Are these the character guys that we are considering or avoiding? Would Steve Smith find a place on this team? He does a lot of celebrating... My point is - this whole "character" thing is equivalent to the CEO announcing the company will pursue "synergy". It's a buzz word that means squat. The Buffalo Bills need football players who have more talent than the other teams and they need better coaches who put those players in positions to take advantage of that talent. It is really that simple. No string of corny cliches have ever beaten a football team... 559478[/snapback] i think the question now is, if the bills do well in the next 3 years, who will you give the credit to? to levy, or to donohoe because levy simply "inherited" the roster? if -- god forbid -- the bills actually do well under levy's helm, i sense that this will be next rj/flutie-level debate coming down the pike ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazykat Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Holy crap... if you believe this crap then you are a bigger <fill in the blank> than I thought. Cornelius Bennett stuck some poor girl in the can against her will, Jim Kelly threw drinks in women's faces, partied his ass off, and stuck small businesses with the tab for his failed restaurant. Bruce Smith never participated in training camp, was suspended for substance abuse, and was found asleep at a stop light (I also believe there is a famous picture on the bench with his hat sideways). He also celebrated after EVERYTHING he did. Thurman Thomas told some poor kid to go f' his mother (or something similar)... I'm sure the list goes on and on and on... So if WM can even read, I expect him to throw the book back poor ol' Marv and call him a liar. 559048[/snapback] Levy, just like Donahoe, has been in the media. He's "one of them." NONE of them are going to do anything but blow smoke up his tailpipe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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