Make Your Playoff Scenario

[bartshan-83]

The BCS has been flawed since it's beginning. It was an improvement on the archaic system that preceded it, but it will never be the system that works. People will always complain about it, because even when it does what it's supposed to do (decide the championship game when it isn't obvious), it is not viewed with enough respect to be considered legit (e.g. 2004 When LSU beat OU but USC was still voted #1 by AP). This shouldn't happen. The BCS should be the ultimate authority in college football. But because of its problems, people will never look at it this way.

 

The obvious solution has been a playoff system. This has been considered for years and almost everyone believes it is the best way to handle the disputes. The reason it has not happened is: A). $$$$$$$ B). Can't decide on a system thats "fair." The NCAA loves to spout off about how they care about the student athlete and the don't believe that it would be fair to add a few more weeks to the schedule to include a playoff. Please. The same "student"-athlete that they exploit to make countless millions. Funny how the lower divisions have playoffs and no one really seems to mind.

 

So I was curious how you all felt about this and if you had a playoff scheme, how would it work. Something to do while our Bills pull their heads out of their arses. Here's mine:

 

Here's the start. There are no public polls until week 8. There is no reason in hell to base a serious sport's destiny on what some AP writer or coach thought in August. Look at this year's Week 1 Top 5:

 

USC--------------1

Texas------------2

Michigan---------NR

Tennessee-------25

Oklahoma--------NR

 

No one knows how it's gonna be in August. Wait until you have an idea, then make the rankings. I realize this will be hard because the writers probably will be ranking all along, but I think if at least it wasn't public, then it might be better.

 

You do a 5 team playoff. You still use the BCS. Necessary evil because you can't have two conflicting polls. I'm no expert on how to modify it so that it would be "better." It's not ideal to use it, but at least it ends at the playoff. After that, the teams decide the champion.

 

There is a play in game between #4 and #5. So there are 4 total games. I did this because it allows the 4 major bowls to remain the heavy hitters. This is the biggest obstacle I believe. No one wants to give up the millions to be made on corporate sponsorships. This would solve that, and I believe it would actually make more money because more people would watch these games. What would you watch....Georgia v. Alabama or a sweet matchup from last year like Utah vs. Pitt.

 

You rotate the BCS bowls in terms of which game gets to be the play-in game, which one gets to be the Championship, as it is done now.

 

You eliminate conference championships and excess byes. There is no need for teams to have 3 byes in a season and then wait 2+ more weeks to play their bowl game. It's ridiculous. There are 10-12 games per year. One bye MAX. One week off at the end of the season (maybe) and then start the playoff.

 

Teams ranked 6-?? can still be selected for the regular bowls as they are now.

 

I know this wouldn't be perfect (the #6 team would still always be screaming) but at least it wouldn't be the #3 team. I would like to expand it to 8 teams but I thought this would be a good first step.

 

Any thoughts?

[R. Rich]

Not bad.

 

The reason playoffs are so great is that anything can happen, and you always have teams that run hot and cold: top ranked teams that peak too early, and darkhorse teams that come on strong late in the year. That's what makes the NCAA basketball tournament so special.

 

Division 1A could have a great tournament. I would love to see a red hot team, like Auburn or Utah were last year, compete in a tournament for the title against the likes of USC, Texas, or whoever else will be in contention late in the year. Greed will not allow this: the greed of the major conferences and the bowl system. They can give us the "sanctity of the bowl games" rhetoric all they want, but it all comes down to money. I hear from ADs or SIDs that they fear the fans wouldn't spend big money to attend a game if it were 'meaningless'. Sorry to break the news to you folks, but nobody cares who the Las Vegas Bowl "champion" is. The only champion we want to see is a true national champion. That said, I am a realist, and I know this will remain a fantasy for the reasons I've stated.

[JimBob2232]

Here is my plan.

 

Have 6 auto bids to the tournament. Give one to each of the following confeneces: Big 10, SEC, Big East, ACC, Big 12, Pac 10.

 

Let each conference decide who to send to the tournament (i.e. regular season winner or tournament champion).

 

Then have 2 at large bids. These auto bids would allow for any team not given an auto bid. Use a BCS-like formula to determine these 2 bids.

 

Then rank 1-8 and play 1vs 8, 2vs7, 3vs6 and 4vs 5. Then have 2 remaining weeks to determine a champion.

 

If money is an issue, it wont be when they see how much revenue a playoff system would generate.

[/dev/null]

coaches poll top 10

round 1 narrows the field from 10 to 8: 1-6 have byes, 7v10, 8v9

round 2 narrows the field from 8 to 4

round 3 narrows the field from 4 to 2

round 4 decides the title

[R. Rich]

Here is my plan.

 

Have 6 auto bids to the tournament.  Give one to each of the following confeneces:  Big 10, SEC, Big East, ACC, Big 12, Pac 10.

 

Let each conference decide who to send to the tournament (i.e. regular season winner or tournament champion).

 

Then have 2 at large bids.  These auto bids would allow for any team not given an auto bid.  Use a BCS-like formula to determine these 2 bids.

 

Then rank 1-8 and play 1vs 8, 2vs7, 3vs6 and 4vs 5.  Then have 2 remaining weeks to determine a champion.

 

If money is an issue, it wont be when they see how much revenue a playoff system would generate.

485454[/snapback]

 

Another point I've tried to make. Does anyone realize that the Final Four generates more cash than the Super Bowl????

[Hirly5]

A playoff might not solve the problem either. If you have a 8 team playoff, picking the first couple teams will be easy but when you get down to the final spots someone is eventually going to get left out. Take this years top 8 BCS teams. (I realize this is going to change dramatically but for arguments sake)

 

1- Texas

2- USC

3- Virginia Tech

4- Georgia

5- Alabama

6- UCLA

7- Miami

8- LSU

 

Left out:

Penn State, Florida State, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Texas Tech

 

Some people would argue that some of the teams that are left out deserve to be in over some of the other teams in the playoff. There is no clear and concise way to name a national champion. In the end, things will shake out and the 2 top teams will be a top the BCS. Although, I do realize like last year there is a possibilty that there could be at least 3 undefeated teams. A playoff would be great but I think you will still have the same problems of who should be in it.

 

On a side note:

NO BIG EAST TEAM SHOULD EVER BE IN A BCS BOWL CAUSE THAT LEAGUE IS ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE. It is bad enough they get an automatic bid.

[JimBob2232]

Left out:

Penn State, Florida State, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Texas Tech

 

Some people would argue that some of the teams that are left out deserve to be in over some of the other teams in the playoff.

 

The difference is that nobody right now is claiming Ohio State, Penn State of Florida State should have a chance at the national championship. In fact, they already lost a game,

 

Someone always gets left out. Even in the NFL or MLB there is always a team on teh cusp that doesnt make it. Doesnt mean the system is bad, just means they werent good enough to be a surefire team in the playoffs. If penn state wants to be in the playoffs and have a shot at the championship, they need to beat michigan. They didnt, they lost, now they need some help to get in, and if they finish on the bubble, thats their own fault, and thats acceptable. What is NOT acceptable is if virginia tech finishes undefeated but doesnt get a chance to play for the championship because texas and usc are also undefeated. This scenrio will not play out with a playoff system as proposed on this thread.

[bartshan-83]

The difference is that nobody right now is claiming Ohio State, Penn State of Florida State should have a chance at the national championship.  In fact, they already lost a game,

 

Someone always gets left out.  Even in the NFL or MLB there is always a team on teh cusp that doesnt make it.  Doesnt mean the system is bad, just means they werent good enough to be a surefire team in the playoffs.  If penn state wants to be in the playoffs and have a shot at the championship, they need to beat michigan.  They didnt, they lost, now they need some help to get in, and if they finish on the bubble, thats their own fault, and thats acceptable.  What is NOT acceptable is if virginia tech finishes undefeated but doesnt get a chance to play for the championship because texas and usc are also undefeated.  This scenrio will not play out with a playoff system as proposed on this thread.

486645[/snapback]

Bingo. That is a point I was trying to make as well. It will always suck when a team gets left out. There will be crying and bitching and complaining and often, it won't be fair. There is no way to eliminate this element of unfairness, the only thing you can do is make the tragedy less severe. The farther you get from the top, the less of a big deal it is. In my scenario, 5 teams get in. I guarantee you there will never be a year in college football where 6 teams go undefeated in 1-A.

 

The 6th team will get left out, it sucks. But better them than the 3rd team. Think about the NCAA basketball tourney. Every year there are teams "on the bubble" that don't make it. It sucks, but it sucks less because since there are so many teams that make it, the bubble teams aren't really considered to be legitimate title contenders. So it is not the end of the world if they are shuffled off to the NIT.

 

I mean to really put into perspective how ridiculous the current NCAA football system is, think about it if they did it that way in basketball. What if there was no tournament and the championship of the entire country was decided in a championship game between the #1 and #2 ranked teams. It's hard to even imagine such an assinine system. Yet, we are living it.

[Hirly5]

The difference is that nobody right now is claiming Ohio State, Penn State of Florida State should have a chance at the national championship.  In fact, they already lost a game,

486645[/snapback]

 

Miami and LSU have one loss also. Ohio State has 2 losses. Florida State actually beat Miami in the first game of the year. According to the BCS, Miami would get into a 8 team playoff over Florida State even though Florida State beat them.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is ... how are you going to seperate the one loss teams from each other? The NFL playoffs are different because they have a set of tie breakers set up to distinguish between teams and the playoffs are based on records not votes.

 

I would love to see a playoff because it would be like march madness. I agree with you, there is no perfect system and someones team is going to get left out.

 

The football problem just shows how messed up the NCAA is.

 

on a side note:

it is good to have some friendly argument without the childish name calling which seems to dominate the bills arguments.

[R. Rich]

Miami and LSU have one loss also.  Ohio State has 2 losses.  Florida State actually beat Miami in the first game of the year.  According to the BCS, Miami would get into a 8 team playoff over Florida State even though Florida State beat them.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is ... how are you going to seperate the one loss teams from each other?  The NFL playoffs are different because they have a set of tie breakers set up to distinguish between teams and the playoffs are based on records not votes.

 

I would love to see a playoff because it would be like march madness.  I agree with you, there is no perfect system and someones team is going to get left out.

 

The football problem just shows how messed up the NCAA is.

 

on a side note:

it is good to have some friendly argument without the childish name calling which seems to dominate the bills arguments.

486796[/snapback]

 

 

There's always going to be some teams feeling left out. The college basketball tournament goes through the same thing. Right after the selction committee makes public their tournament teams, the "who got screwed" rants begin. It's just going to happen. Nevertheless, you still get a much better result w/ the tournament than you do w/out it.

 

Yeah, I do like the debates here. Nice and civilized. I must give props to the moderator here...

[smokinandjokin]

I know the BCS has flaws, but it's hard to say it will fail this year. Everybody's clear-cut top 2 teams (should Texas and SoCal run the table) will play each other for the title. That's what the system was set up to do. I understand Virginia Tech's beef, and Georgia or Alabama, should they go undefeated. But in my opinion, Texas and USC are a class above those teams. I know I said it earlier, but based on where we were pre-BCS, this is better. USC would play a Big Ten pretender in the Rose Bowl, Texas would play Notre Dame in the Cotton Bowl, and Virginia Tech would play Georgia in the Orange Bowl. At least the BCS pairs two of those teams up. The fatal flaw was two years ago, when USC was #1 in the AP and Coaches Polls, but #3 in the BCS.

 

I would prefer a playoff, as I know everyone else would. But the current system makes every game a playoff game. Texas at Ohio St. wasn't a playoff-type game? USC at ND? Same thing. The losers of those games are on the outside looking in.

 

The argument, since every game is a playoff game, is what happens when more than two teams win them all? That's the tricky part. I think a semifinal and final would answer most of the questions. If you are ranked 5th and left out, you probably have one loss. So the answer is the same as it's always been- you can't lose.

 

The positive effect of the current BCS is better non-conference games. I don't see Texas and Ohio State agreeing to play if strength of schedule was not factored in. Hopefully other major programs will think this way also. Going undefeated while beating Louisiana-Monroe 58-6 doesn't help you much when the other teams are playing the big boys. Coaches have to decide if going undefeated while playing a Top 10 non-conference game is worth the risk of losing that game and having that one loss burn you.

 

Hmmmm...but in a playoff system, one loss DOES burn you...

[bartshan-83]

Yeah, I do like the debates here.  Nice and civilized.  I must give props to the moderator here...

486813[/snapback]

[Alaska Darin]

Yeah, I do like the debates here.  Nice and civilized.  I must give props to the moderator here...

486813[/snapback]

Dude's an idiot.

[PSU_Mouse]

Here is my plan.

 

Have 6 auto bids to the tournament.  Give one to each of the following confeneces:  Big 10, SEC, Big East, ACC, Big 12, Pac 10.

 

Let each conference decide who to send to the tournament (i.e. regular season winner or tournament champion).

 

Then have 2 at large bids.  These auto bids would allow for any team not given an auto bid.  Use a BCS-like formula to determine these 2 bids.

 

Then rank 1-8 and play 1vs 8, 2vs7, 3vs6 and 4vs 5.  Then have 2 remaining weeks to determine a champion.

 

If money is an issue, it wont be when they see how much revenue a playoff system would generate.

485454[/snapback]

 

 

That's the ideal scenario. Its so easy, I don't know why it isn't the case??

[R. Rich]

486833[/snapback]

 

 

Hahaha!!!

 

Hey, we do have some great football discussions here. It makes you appreciate "the lost art" of the debate. Don't believe me? Go check out the Wall or PPP forums.

 

 

Dude's an idiot.

487093[/snapback]

 

 

High priase, indeed.

[R. Rich]

That's the ideal scenario.  Its so easy, I don't know why it isn't the case??

487162[/snapback]

 

 

I'll defer to Sir Randy of Moss, or to his TBD herald, Hirly5, on this one:

 

 

That is straight cash homey.

467516[/snapback]

[bartshan-83]

Hahaha!!! 

 

Hey, we do have some great football discussions here.  It makes you appreciate "the lost art" of the debate.  Don't believe me?  Go check out the Wall or PPP forums.

487248[/snapback]

 

 

Totally agree. Sometimes, less is more. (Always in the case of TBD).

 

Of course if ND is left out of the BCS, I might get a little cranky.

[Mark VI]

8 team playoff. Quarterfinals arounds Christmas. Semi's around New Years. National Championship game the next week on a Friday or Saturday night.

[JimBob2232]

Miami and LSU have one loss also. Ohio State has 2 losses. Florida State actually beat Miami in the first game of the year. According to the BCS, Miami would get into a 8 team playoff over Florida State even though Florida State beat them.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is ... how are you going to seperate the one loss teams from each other? The NFL playoffs are different because they have a set of tie breakers set up to distinguish between teams and the playoffs are based on records not votes.

 

I dont care. You lost one game. Your right to complain about your future is over. If you lose out on a tie-breaker or BCS rank or whatever I dont care. You lost. The reason you are not in is because YOU lost. Its YOUR fault. I can live with that, and we can tweak the method of selecting teams who make it all day long, it doesnt matter, the problem is solved.

 

The way i look at this is this: You win all your games, you get a chance to play for the national championship. You lose, even one game, you lose that right. If you are lucky, you get a second chance, but maybe not. If florida beats miami, but loses to virginia, too bad. Now you need help to make the playoffs. Its really that easy.

[bartshan-83]

I dont care.  You lost one game.  Your right to complain about your future is over.  If you lose out on a tie-breaker or BCS rank or whatever I dont care.  You lost.  The reason you are not in is because YOU lost.  Its YOUR fault.  I can live with that, and we can tweak the method of selecting teams who make it all day long, it doesnt matter, the problem is solved.

 

The way i look at this is this:  You win all your games, you get a chance to play for the national championship.  You lose, even one game, you lose that right.  If you are lucky, you get a second chance, but maybe not.  If florida beats miami, but loses to virginia, too bad.  Now you need help to make the playoffs.  Its really that easy.

488317[/snapback]

Agreed. And I'll even take it one step further....what makes the NFL tie-breakers so much more fair? Who decided that conference record should be more important than point differential, etc.? What if you happened to play in a sh------- division and then played all the sh------- teams in your conference? Why should you get a playoff spot over a team that may have played a much harder schedule but lost one more game?

 

I'm not really arguing for one side or another, I'm simply saying that tie-breaker rules are just as arbitrary and subjective as rankings or BCS formulas. Human beings manipulate them, therefore there are subject to critcism. Just because they seem more concrete in one case doesn't make it so.

 

I agree. You lose once, nothing is given to you.

[smokinandjokin]

I agree. You lose once, nothing is given to you.

488700[/snapback]

 

Just like in the playoffs.....

[Hirly5]

The college football regular season can then be viewed as a playoff because if you get 1 loss during the year then season is basically over. But I know ... their can be multiple undefeated teams.

 

I think things will sort themselves out in the end. I dont see Texas losing another game cause they play the easy portion of their schedule aka the BIG 12. Va Tech plays Miami next weekend, at Virginia and a possible date with Florida State on a neutral field down the road. USC plays UCLA, Fresno St and at Cal down the road. There are some possible losses on the schedule.

 

I see no way possible that Georgia or Alabama will stay undefeated. They both have to many injuries. Even though Florida is playing crappy, it wouldnt surprise me if they beat a Shockley-less Georgia this weekend. Alabama has been squeaking by the last couple weekends and it is bound to catch up with them.

[Ramius]

I'd say an 8-team playoff. Hell, even use the BCS rankings to determine the 8 teams that make it in. Rotate the bowls for the national championship game.

 

Also, i agree with the original post that no rankings should be made until at least week 6. Its BS to watch a team struggle up through the rankings, because they were ranked so low at the start of the year, before any games had been played. It's comparable the NFL saying that NE and Philly have the tie breaker over anyone because they made it to the Super Bowl last season.

 

Also, i say use the BCS to detemine the 8 teams, because, unlike the damn polls, in the BCS, A LOSS MEANS THE SAME NO MATTER WHEN IT HAPPENS i HATE THIS CRAP OF AN EARLIER LOSS MEANIGN LESS THAN A LATER IN THE SEASON LOSS!

[Chilly]

Also, i say use the BCS to detemine the 8 teams, because, unlike the damn polls, in the BCS, A LOSS MEANS THE SAME NO MATTER WHEN IT HAPPENS i HATE THIS CRAP OF AN EARLIER LOSS MEANIGN LESS THAN A LATER IN THE SEASON LOSS!

488867[/snapback]

 

2/3ds of the BCS are polls.