Is Racial Profiling of Muslims Wrong?

[PTS]

Here's a forwarded e-mail I got that I thought I'd share with everyone...

 

The recent bombings in London, conducted by Muslim male extremists between the age of 17 and 40, reminded me of how far removed we have become from the realities of 9/11.

 

But should we be surprised?

 

Please pause a moment, reflect back, and take the following simple multiple choice test. The events are actual cuts from past history.

 

Do you remember?

 

1. In 1968, Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by

a. Superman

b. Jay Leno

c. Harry Potter

d. a Muslim male extremist between the age of 17 and 40

 

2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by

a. Olga Corbett

b. Sitting Bull

c. Arnold Schwarzenegger

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

 

3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by

a. Lost Norwegians

b. Elvis

c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

 

4. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by

a. John Dillinger

b. The King of Sweden

c. The Boy Scouts

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

 

5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut were blown up by

a. A pizza delivery boy

b. Pee Wee Herman

c. Geraldo Rivera

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

 

6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by

a. The Smurfs

b. Davy Jones

c. The Little Mermaid

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

 

7. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by

a. Captain Kidd

b. Charles Lindberg

c. Mother Teresa

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

 

8. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed over Lockerbee, Scotland by

a. Scooby Doo

b. The Tooth Fairy

c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

 

9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by

a. Richard Simmons

b. Grandma Moses

c. Michael Jordan

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

 

10. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by

a. Mr. Rogers

b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill' s women problems

c. The World Wrestling Federation

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

 

11. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers. Thousands of people were killed by

a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd

b. The Supreme Court of Florida

c. Mr. Bean

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

 

12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against

a. Enron

b. The Lutheran Church

c. The NFL

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

 

13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and decapitated by

a. Zorro

b. Bob Vila

c. Emeril Lagasse

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

 

14. On July 7 and July 21st, 2005, who set off bombs in the London Subway system killing 60 + Londoners?

a. Pinky Herman

b. Groucho Marx

c. Soupy Sales

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

 

Nope, I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?

 

Yeah, right!

 

So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent on killing us, airport security screeners will no longer be allowed to profile certain people. They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids in diapers, airline pilots with proper identification, secret agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips, and Medal of Honor winner and former South Dakota Governor Joe Foss, but leave Muslim males between the ages 17 and 40 alone because of profiling.

 

Let's send this to as many people as we can so that the Gloria Aldreds and other dunder-headed ACLU attorneys, along with Federal Justices that want to thwart common sense, feel doubly ashamed of themselves - if they have any such sense.

 

As the writer of the award winning story "Forrest Gump" so aptly put it, "Stupid is as stupid does."

[RuntheDamnBall]

Please explain to me how you do "racial" profiling of a religious group made up of people who are black, white, and everything in-between. Take a look at the London bombing culprits. Duh.

 

When we're getting religious groups mixed up with ethnic groups, mixed up with nationalities, stupid is as stupid does, indeed.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Oh wait, I forgot, my driver's license does list me as a Unitarian. My bad.

[Reuben Gant]

Guess what Oswald, Malvo, McVeigh, Whitman, had in common?

Should we be profiling veterans?

[RuntheDamnBall]

Guess what Oswald, Malvo, McVeigh, Whitman, had in common?

Should we be profiling veterans? 

408781[/snapback]

No, we should only be profiling young male radical Muslim extremists. I'll be on the lookout for them, I tell you me.

[philburger1]

Guess what Oswald, Malvo, McVeigh, Whitman, had in common?

Should we be profiling veterans? 

408781[/snapback]

 

 

Don't recall any of them attacking a mass transit system.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Don't recall any of them attacking a mass transit system.

408820[/snapback]

Way to miss the point. Because blowing up buildings or taking out random civilians with a sniper rifle are certainly more honorable.

 

Keep firing blanks.

[Rich in Ohio]

Way to miss the point.  Because blowing up buildings or taking out random civilians with a sniper rifle are certainly more honorable.

 

Keep firing blanks.

408843[/snapback]

 

I don't see him firing blanks, just telling it like it is. Profiling should be excercised with regularity. Until 80 year old ladies and 5 year old children start delivering the bomb filled back packs we should keep our eyes open for the obvious. I am not a profile expert but I have no troublw with those who are doing so to keep innocent people safe from those who would gladly slaughter us.

 

Who are you trying to protect? and what are you worried about?

[RuntheDamnBall]

Who are you trying to protect? and what are you worried about?

408914[/snapback]

Rich, I am trying to protect common sense.

 

You can't "profile" members of a religion, at least not in terms of public searches. The authorities can do everything possible in terms of intel and gravitate toward and communicate with the communities that are potential hotspots. But the idea of actually profiling Muslims in the way that other ethnic or racial groups have been profiled is absurd, because it is not one of those groups.

 

This is like talking to a wall.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Rich, I am trying to protect common sense.

 

You can't "profile" members of a religion, at least not in terms of public searches.  The authorities can do everything possible in terms of intel and gravitate toward and communicate with the communities that are potential hotspots.  But the idea of actually profiling Muslims in the way that other ethnic or racial groups have been profiled is absurd, because it is not one of those groups.

 

This is like talking to a wall.

408926[/snapback]

 

No but you can profile Arabs or anyone else who comes from a Middle Eastern or predominantly Muslim nation.

 

That can be done with ease.

[blzrul]

I hate to point this out but "Muslim" is not a race. You can profile Arabs or Middle Easterners but they're not all Muslims. And you can profile Muslims, but they come in various races.

 

Oh shoot, now what? Acknowledge that you just can't control it all and that "racial profiling" will accomplish little more than a false sense of security?

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Oh shoot, now what?  Acknowledge that you just can't control it all and that "racial profiling" will accomplish little more than a false sense of security?

408987[/snapback]

 

But allow me to play devil's advocate and suggest that it'll accomplish a little more than banning nail clippers in carry-on luggage.

 

False sense of security? Nah, we can't have that...

[RuntheDamnBall]

No but you can profile Arabs or anyone else who comes from a Middle Eastern or predominantly Muslim nation.

 

That can be done with ease.

408975[/snapback]

Well, that would at least rate as possible profiling, unlike the impossible "racial profiling" of Muslims that our thread-starter advocates. And again, it doesn't matter. Look at the London bombers. We've got to stop looking to stereotypes to fix our problems and keep up the hard, concrete intel and police work.

 

I recently read a great article in the New Yorker on Kelly of the NYPD and all the work they have done since 9/11 to protect this city. It made me feel a LOT better than any profiling would. Basically, NYPD is now ahead of the FBI's curve a lot of the time in getting critical information. And believe me, we do need to tread lightly with the Arab and Muslim communities whose support we need in this thing. A lot of them are in the frontlines helping us out because they know and understand the languages and culture. But I suppose it's a lot easier to search for a blanket solution or a scapegoat than to target the problem.

[RuntheDamnBall]

But allow me to play devil's advocate and suggest that it'll accomplish a little more than banning nail clippers in carry-on luggage. 

 

False sense of security?  Nah, we can't have that...

408997[/snapback]

Unfortunately the idea or spectacle of security is pretty much as important as the real thing. We had the illusion of safety for a long time in this country.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

No but you can profile Arabs or anyone else who comes from a Middle Eastern or predominantly Muslim nation.

 

That can be done with ease.

408975[/snapback]

 

First thing I think of when I read this is all the Indians that were assaulted after 9/11. "Stop beating on him, you morons! He's a !@#$ing Hindu!"

[RuntheDamnBall]

First thing I think of when I read this is all the Indians that were assaulted after 9/11.  "Stop beating on him, you morons!  He's a !@#$ing Hindu!"

409011[/snapback]

I'd bet you a million dollars the people responsible for those assaults never even heard of a Sikh.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Well, that would at least rate as possible profiling, unlike the impossible "racial profiling" of Muslims that our thread-starter advocates.  And again, it doesn't matter.  Look at the London bombers.  We've got to stop looking to stereotypes to fix our problems and keep up the hard, concrete intel and police work.

 

I recently read a great article in the New Yorker on Kelly of the NYPD and all the work they have done since 9/11 to protect this city.  It made me feel a LOT better than any profiling would.  Basically, NYPD is now ahead of the FBI's curve a lot of the time in getting critical information.  And believe me, we do need to tread lightly with the Arab and Muslim communities whose support we need in this thing.  A lot of them are in the frontlines helping us out because they know and understand the languages and culture.  But I suppose it's a lot easier to search for a blanket solution or a scapegoat than to target the problem.

409001[/snapback]

 

Not saying that I thought that it was a viable solution. It isn't. But it is *possible* mind you.

 

What we need to do is pay snitches in the Arab and various muslim communities. That would actually be a wise use of taxpayer dollars.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

What we need to do is pay snitches in the Arab and various muslim communities. That would actually be a wise use of taxpayer dollars.

409033[/snapback]

 

Yeah, I'm sure that wouldn't be abused either.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Yeah, I'm sure that wouldn't be abused either. 

409040[/snapback]

 

Perhaps, but you'd have to think it could yield SOMETHING of value.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Not saying that I thought that it was a viable solution. It isn't. But it is *possible* mind you.

 

What we need to do is pay snitches in the Arab and various muslim communities. That would actually be a wise use of taxpayer dollars.

409033[/snapback]

We would have to have a pretty well established trust with such operatives. Double agents in this kind of conflict would be more dangerous than I could imagine. Otherwise, a great idea that I would bet is being used.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Perhaps, but you'd have to think it could yield SOMETHING of value.

409042[/snapback]

 

Like information regarding Iraq's impending purchase of uranium from Africa... And don't forget the rather significant price on bin Laden's head that seems to be accomplishing pretty much nothing. The people who'd actually have the information you want are the people who'd proabably not be motivated by cash.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Like information regarding Iraq's impending purchase of uranium from Africa...    And don't forget the rather significant price on bin Laden's head that seems to be accomplishing pretty much nothing.  The people who'd actually have the information you want are the people who'd proabably not be motivated by cash.

409054[/snapback]

 

True, that. But there have to be people out there wh would jump at the chance to at least point us in the right direction.

[philburger1]

Way to miss the point.  Because blowing up buildings or taking out random civilians with a sniper rifle are certainly more honorable.

 

Keep firing blanks.

408843[/snapback]

 

 

We are talking about SCREENING PASSENGERS GOING ON AIRCRAFT AND TRAINS are we not?

 

I think that was a .38 hollow tip that just smoked your ass.

[Ghost of BiB]

True, that. But there have to be people out there wh would jump at the chance to at least point us in the right direction.

409058[/snapback]

 

FWIW, there is a lot of that going on now, and without bribes. We actually get a lot from people who don't hate America from a huge variety of sources. One big problem is people who out other people for personal vendetta reasons. (owes money, ex-husband, etc) Checking the stories clogs the reource pipeline.

 

Keep in mind there's a lot of money out there for Bin Laden, Zarqawi and some of their little friends. They are still on the street.

[RuntheDamnBall]

We are talking about SCREENING PASSENGERS GOING ON AIRCRAFT AND TRAINS are we not?

 

I think that was a .38 hollow tip that just smoked your ass.

409172[/snapback]

I believe we're talking just as much about the frame of mind of people who would commit acts of mass and public murder.

 

It has little to do with race, but keep believing it if it makes you feel better.

[Ghost of BiB]

I believe we're talking just as much about the frame of mind of people who would commit acts of mass and public murder.

 

It has little to do with race, but keep believing it if it makes you feel better.

409177[/snapback]

 

Uh...well, yes it does.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Uh...well, yes it does.

409180[/snapback]

Please explain, given that we've seen people from myriad backgrounds involve themselves with radical Islam.

[Ghost of BiB]

Please explain, given that we've seen people from myriad backgrounds involve themselves with radical Islam.

409185[/snapback]

 

Predominantly of middle eastern extraction. Arabs. Generally between the ages of 17 and 28. Usually male. Most likely Saudi, Pakistani or Egyptian. Closely followed by Sudanese, Jordanian and Somalian - but woo hoo...now we are starting to dip into black ethnic groups.

 

That's sure going to get messy, isn't it?

[Mickey]

Rich, I am trying to protect common sense.

 

You can't "profile" members of a religion, at least not in terms of public searches.  The authorities can do everything possible in terms of intel and gravitate toward and communicate with the communities that are potential hotspots.  But the idea of actually profiling Muslims in the way that other ethnic or racial groups have been profiled is absurd, because it is not one of those groups.

 

This is like talking to a wall.

408926[/snapback]

No it's not, the odds of getting an intelligent response from a wall is far greater.

 

Where do you get off insulting walls like that?

 

I know walls sir, I have worked with walls, and Richio, sir, is no wall.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Predominantly of middle eastern extraction. Arabs. Generally between the ages of 17 and 28. Usually male. Most likely Saudi, Pakistani or Egyptian. Closely followed by Sudanese, Jordanian and Somalian - but woo hoo...now we are starting to dip into black ethnic groups.

 

That's sure going to get messy, isn't it?

409198[/snapback]

That's kind of my point. To say nothing of southeast Asia, or domestic recruits, as were all the London bombers (understanding they were of Arab origin -- except for one of Jamaican -- profiling that would have been interesting).

 

I understand there is a current profile, and it should at the very least be examined. But it should not be our limit and it should not be the primary focus. The primary focus should be getting these people behind the scenes, not on the steps of a train terminal, and I'm sure a lot of people are working hard to make sure they never get there. I'm sure you can agree with that.

[chicot]

That's kind of my point.  To say nothing of southeast Asia, or domestic recruits, as were all the London bombers (understanding they were of Arab origin -- except for one of Jamaican -- profiling that would have been interesting).

 

I understand there is a current profile, and it should at the very least be examined.  But it should not be our limit and it should not be the primary focus.  The primary focus should be getting these people behind the scenes, not on the steps of a train terminal, and I'm sure a lot of people are working hard to make sure they never get there.  I'm sure you can agree with that.

409206[/snapback]

 

 

? The London bombers were not of Arab origin. Apart from the Jamaican, they were all Pakistani.

[Ghost of BiB]

That's kind of my point.  To say nothing of southeast Asia, or domestic recruits, as were all the London bombers (understanding they were of Arab origin -- except for one of Jamaican -- profiling that would have been interesting).

 

I understand there is a current profile, and it should at the very least be examined.  But it should not be our limit and it should not be the primary focus.  The primary focus should be getting these people behind the scenes, not on the steps of a train terminal, and I'm sure a lot of people are working hard to make sure they never get there.  I'm sure you can agree with that.

409206[/snapback]

 

And, there is a LOT going on (thankfully most here don't know about it), but you have to play the percentages. The percentages say that the profile I described above is most likely to be the bad guy. Ergo, that's who you profile.

 

That's why they call it profiling. Serial Killers are most likely early middle aged white guys. That's who the police sort of kind of start off looking for.

 

This isn't lost on AQ, either. I would bet you good money they are really working to gather up some trustworthy non-arab appearing operatives. Take a look at your prison populations. There are some pretty ornery muslims there.

 

But, that isn't the immediate problem, until evidence gets produced to support it.

[Ghost of BiB]

? The London bombers were not of Arab origin. Apart from the Jamaican, they were all Pakistani.

409219[/snapback]

 

Well DUH, Dave. Anyone with even the most cursory knowledge knows the Pakistani connection. that's why I included them with the above.

[SilverNRed]

And, there is a LOT going on (thankfully most here don't know about it), but you have to play the percentages. The percentages say that the profile I described above is most likely to be the bad guy. Ergo, that's who you profile.

 

That's why they call it profiling. Serial Killers are most likely early middle aged white guys. That's who the police sort of kind of start off looking for.

 

This isn't lost on AQ, either. I would bet you good money they are really working to gather up some trustworthy non-arab appearing operatives. Take a look at your prison populations. There are some pretty ornery muslims there.

 

But, that isn't the immediate problem, until evidence gets produced to support it.

409223[/snapback]

At which point, people will begin wondering why "Bush didn't do something" about it.

 

Profiling is a wonderful thing. I'd love our security teams to be trained to look for the people most likely to be doing something sinister rather than just looking at everyone, because there's no way you can actually look at everyone. Profiling works. They understand this in Israel. It helped them crush the intifada not long ago.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Well DUH, Dave. Anyone with even the most cursory knowledge knows the Pakistani connection. that's why I included them with the above.

409224[/snapback]

(retreats into corner again)

[philburger1]

I believe we're talking just as much about the frame of mind of people who would commit acts of mass and public murder.

 

It has little to do with race, but keep believing it if it makes you feel better.

409177[/snapback]

 

 

How about using names then?

Abdul Mohhamd El Sheika Annon would warrant a close look.

[Britbillsfan]

? The London bombers were not of Arab origin. Apart from the Jamaican, they were all Pakistani.

409219[/snapback]

Richard Reid, the aircraft 'shoe bomber', was also of part West Indies extraction.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

? The London bombers were not of Arab origin. Apart from the Jamaican, they were all Pakistani.

409219[/snapback]

 

Of course they weren't.

 

But God forbid ANYONE besmirch the good name of the Arab community, right? Because we all know that young Arab males never blow themselves up.

 

[chicot]

Of course they weren't.

 

But God forbid ANYONE besmirch the good name of the Arab community, right? Because we all know that young Arab males never blow themselves up.

 

410708[/snapback]

 

Of course they do, but that's no reason to assume that each and every suicide bombing has to carried out by a young Arab male. As you well know, that is a false assumption.

[Ghost of BiB]

Of course they weren't.

 

But God forbid ANYONE besmirch the good name of the Arab community, right? Because we all know that young Arab males never blow themselves up.

 

410708[/snapback]

 

The majority of western people wouldn't know the difference between a Pakistani and a Syrian. I don't think Chicot was implying that Arabs don't blow things up. It IS a true statement that the current crop was not arab, and is probably a reporting and discussion fault that this is centering on "Arabs". That's why I used the description of Middle-East/West Asian/N. African. It's still profiling, but a wider brush.

 

There will come a time when blue eyed blondes are blowing things up (actually, it's already happened a lot - anyone remember Bader-Meinhoff?) but until it becomes a real problem, one has to play the percentages.