Free Safety options already on our roster... or do you really think it should be in the draft?

[Shaw66]

9 hours ago, below said:

 

You're kidding right.

 

On any NFL roster safety is one of the most replaceable positions.

 

That's why we essentially let Poyer walk last season. Fortunately he couldn't find a better deal.

 

They signed 2 safeties in 2017 because good safeties are readily available in FA.

 

If safety was the most important position we wouldn't be paying more $ to Miller. Or White. Or Douglas. Or Floyd. Or Oliver. Or Jones. Or Milano. Etc.

No, I'm not kidding.  I should have said safety is one of the most important positions in McDermott's defense.   He is defense is all about not giving up the big play.   His philosophy is to get pressure on the quarterback with four guys and only four, because with pressure, he can arrange seven back defenders in ways that cover all of the real estate that the QB can attack in less than three seconds.   That's his defense. 

 

Of the seven back defenders, safety is the most complicated position to learn, because the safeties are responsible for covering the most geography.  The safeties provide the defense for the deepest parts of the zone and also are expected to make tackles at and even behind the line of scrimmage.   In order to cover all of that territory properly, they need to understand whether the other 5 defenders are going, because they have to make instantaneous judgments about where they need to go.  They also need to have the speed to cover all of that territory, they need good cover skills, and they need to be good tacklers.  The corners and the linebackers are responsible for less territory, much less territory, so their decisions are less complicated.   

 

For some reason, the safeties didn't get the job done against the Chiefs, because the defense gave up all those chunk plays.   I doubt, however, that the explanation was that Hyde and Poyer fell apart.   I'd guess that it's much likely that the two linebackers and the two corners underperformed.  In McD's defense, the safeties rely on the other five backfield defenders do their jobs.   Those defenders don't have to be great, but they have to do their jobs.   That's why a guy like Levi Wallace could play successfully for the Bills.  Not a stud, by any means, but a guy who did his job consistently, so that the safeties could rely on what was happening in his zone.   Against the Chiefs, the linebackers and the corners all were suspect.   Douglas, because he was coming off an injury, Elam, who always has struggled playing this defense, Jackson, whom the Bills have been trying to replace for a couple of years (he was essentially Wallace's backup, which is all you need to know), Klein, who never has been more than an over-achiever who simply didn't have the physical skills to play the position, and Dodson, another guy coming off injury who, at his best, has been inconsistent.  

 

The Bills defense has succeeded as well as it has because Hyde and Poyer have consistently stopped the big play, over and over again.  When Hyde and Poyer were out last season, the defense struggled.  

 

I'm sure we're going to see the Bills put some high-level player at safety next season.  They may may get one in free agency.   They may draft one in the first or second round, but they probably don't want to rely on a rookie back there.   That's why I think Johnson may move.   He as everything they want in that position - all the physical talent, the brains, and the understanding of the defense.   It would be easier to succeed with a rookie slot corner drafted in the first or second round than to succeed with a safety.

[transplantbillsfan]

Okay... I think there are some posters saying we have to cut Tre White who need to listen to Greg Tompsett's update on the salary cap from 2 days ago.

 

Boiling it down... we owe him $16m. Releasing him gives us only $6m in savings and a $10m dead cap hit.

 

As Tompsett points out, it's unlikely we flat out release him. Much more likely to restructure his contract with some hard to reach incentives having to do probably with snap counts.

 

 

 

Oh yeah, and another CB successfully converted to Safety...

 

Micah Hyde

 

And Hyde was still young in his career.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 1/24/2024 at 3:20 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

I get it... there are a couple Safety threads right now.  If mods want to merge with this that one, that's fine.  I just think that thread is bringing up the only player who really won't be an option to convert to Free Safety, though I'll include him in the options in the poll.

 

The way I see it, the Bills might want to get a little creative this offseason with personnell and not simply replace all players that leave the roster with a new player they have to sign or draft.  Yes, the Bills have 10 draft picks.  But let's be realistic, if even half of our upcoming draft become significant contributors next season, that draft is a Homerun.  And I'd say there's almost no shot of finding half (5) of that draft becoming immediate or even in season starters.

 

So.... Buffalo needs to look long at hard at replacing UFAs we're going to lose to FA or retirement with roster replacements.

 

The obvious ones are the guys who play the same position.  Let's hope Shorter or Shavers can replace Sherfield's role as a depth WR/Special Teams player.  And if the Bills choose to cut Harty (possible to likely) for the CAP savings, let's hope Hamler or Isabella can replace him.  I know both of those guys are signed to Futures contracts... I believe that means that next year they're basically on a one year vet minimum salary... but that was with just a relatively quick google search if anyone wants to correct me.

 

As far as WRs go, I think if those things can happen, our offense will be pretty well set for next year when we draft 1 or 2 WRs with 1 of them likely being a 1st or 2nd round guy and an expected starter opposite Diggs.

 

Sorry for the tangent...  all that is to say that the secondary is the most complicated Unit on the team going into next season.

 

Safeties under contract next year right now are Poyer and Hamlin.  That's it.  I do think that Cam Lewis will be resigned at the vet minimum because the team loves him as depth across all positions in the secondary and he has great special teams ability.

 

Hyde's retiring.  I think we can all agree.

 

The team arguably has 4 starting CBs in White, Douglass, Benford and Elam.  Yes, I realize big question marks hover over Elam and White, but they have starting CB talent.  I think everyone would agree.  And I know Dane Jackson is a UFA who likely won't be back, but I'm going to factor him into this overall equation because, like Lewis, I think he's another player the team (justifiably) loves as a depth piece.

 

So... as it currently is, here's our secondary with the bolded guys as rostered guys (when healthy)... otherwise, practice squad guys:

 

CB- Tre White

CB- Rasul Douglas

CB- Kaiir Elam

CB- Christian Benford

CB- Taron Johnson

CB- Siran Neal

CB- Kyron Brown

CB- Ja'Marcus Ingram

 

S- Jordan Poyer

S- Damar Hamlin

S- ??????????

S- ??????????

S- ??????????

 

I think if we did absolutely nothing at the CB position in the offseason, we'll be good at that position in terms of both starters and depth.  Agree? I understand the White injury is concerning, but on the plus side, he got hurt in early October.  So, we'll see.  Even if White is out, I've heard so much praise for Ingram from the film buffs like Joe Marino and Bruce Nolan that I wonder if he might be the catalyst for trying the move I'm about to propose.

 

We might end up drafting a Safety early, but with the void we have going into this offseason at DT (only Oliver under contract) and the need for a true #2 or even #1b WR, I think Safety comes in the middle rounds.

 

So... I think our starting Free Safety for next year is already on our roster or was already on our roster.

 

Here are the players and the arguments for and against.  I'll go in descending order from what I think would be most likely & effective to least.  And I think the first 2 are pretty close.

 

Rasul Douglas

Argument for: Physical, zone corner with LOTS of zone experience, incredible instincts, a nose for the ball, and a very vocal leader.

 

Argument against:  Age.  How many effective years will we get with him as our starting Safety?  I think a good number considering Safeties generally age well, but we'll see.

 

Christian Benford

Argument for: Physical, zone corner, very good instincts, a nose for the ball, if he plays well at Safety this year and we extend him after his rookie contract, a starting Safety is a lot cheaper than a starting CB.

 

Argument against:  Young player we've already been grooming as our starting CB who is already really good at the position.  Why ruin a good thing?

 

Tre White

Argument for: Zone corner with maybe the most familiarity with McDermott's D, incredible instincts, a nose for the ball, team leader loved and respected by everyone

 

Argument against: Injury would not only hinder his start to 2024, but also his transition to Safety.  Not a very good tackler.

 

Dane Jackson

Argument for: Physical, zone corner with LOTS of familiarity with McDermott's D, good instincts, loved and respected by everyone on the team.

 

Argument against: Not under contract, so bringing him back would be a serious projection for a guy who's only a borderline starting CB.

 

Kaiir Elam

Argument for: Speed to the ball, a nose for the ball, well-documented as a hard worker, NFL bloodlines, former 1st round draft pick under contract for fairly cheap for 2 more years so converting him successfully (if we could) could get rid of the whole "wasted draft pick" narrative.

 

Argument against: Poor tackler, Has struggled for 2 years to learn McDermott's Zone D.

 

 

Personally, I want to see Douglas extended for 2 years so he's under contract for 3 years total (would lower his CAP hit next year) at a mid level starting Safety range.  I think he'd be a stud at Safety and the 2nd Green Bay CB McDermott would have brought to Buffalo and converted.

 

How about you?

Tre White would be a really interesting choice. Other elite CBs have made that transition and he’s very physical. I think his career is done, but I would love the Bills to give him one last shot. 

[BillsFanForever19]

25 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Okay... I think there are some posters saying we have to cut Tre White who need to listen to Greg Tompsett's update on the salary cap from 2 days ago.

 

Boiling it down... we owe him $16m. Releasing him gives us only $6m in savings and a $10m dead cap hit.

 

As Tompsett points out, it's unlikely we flat out release him. Much more likely to restructure his contract with some hard to reach incentives having to do probably with snap counts.

 

 

 

Oh yeah, and another CB successfully converted to Safety...

 

Micah Hyde

 

And Hyde was still young in his career.

 

Micah Hyde was a tweener who also played Safety in College. He wasn't just a young CB randomly making the transition at the Pro level.

 

https://hawkeyesports.com/roster/micah-hyde/

 

As I've said, the only times that transition is made is if they were Drafted out of College as a tweener with the versatility to play both spots or aging elite CB's who have the skills to transition (ala Peterson, Vincent, and Woodson). 

 

You never take a young CB who's playing the position at a high level and put them at Safety.

Edited January 27 by BillsFanForever19