this is a flat-out lie by donohoe

[Sound_n_Fury]

Guess Andy Reid should be trading TO for 6th rounder right now. That TO guy sounds pretty pissed off, so the Eagles should cave and get want they can for him.

319312[/snapback]

 

...same with Westbrook.

[duey]

call me crazy, but yes, i would have.  i strongly believe that henry's net impact on the team if he stays will be negative, not positive.  simply put, henry is a better player than a seventh rounder, but not for the bills.  you just watch: unless he's traded for a player straight up in the next 3 months (which i would of course welcome, and I certainly believe TD has the capability to pull off a good deal), it's going to get really ugly.  keeping a guy simply because no one wants to give you what you think the guy is worth should change your assessment of what you think the guy is worth (i.e., that value should spiral downward).

319294[/snapback]

 

So, TD does what you want and trades TH for a 7th round pick. Then, Travis goes out and runs for 1,500 yds and 12 TDs, and everyone is ready to shoot TD because he gave up a probowl back for a 7. It just doesn't work that way.

 

Travis should not be traded for anything less than a 3.

[Campy]

Dallas?

319316[/snapback]

No, I'm sorry. The correct question was "Who is Oakland?"

[GG]

Dave,

 

I think you're nitpicking on TD's remarks. I think it's safe to say that he received plenty of offers for Henry. We also agree that most of those offers were for Rounds 5+, which is something that TD can always get for Henry and would prefer to get No. 5 in '06 than in '05.

 

My view is that he answered the question to avoid further catcalls on what is really fair value for Henry, while still keeping his options open for the future. If he said, "We were offered a No. 5 for Travis, and it was too low," that may prevent some teams from offering a No. 5 for Henry this summer.

 

Thus, by pure definition, yes he lied. But in coachspeak, he was vague enough to allow us to gleam the truth.

[Alaska Darin]

but what's the alternative? keeping a guy who doesn't want to be here and who refuses to perform (as he allegedly did late last season)?  i'd rather have a guy who can contribute. moreover, if i was a gm, i'd consider it a lesson learned and steer clear of such players in the future. remember, williams and donohoe expressed outright anger in 01 about the U of TN's failure to disclose Henry's learning disability.

319311[/snapback]

I'm not sending the message to future players that all they have to do is whine publically and they'll get to leave for next to nothing. No way, no how.

 

I'm not going to argue that I'd rather have a guy who can contribute - no doubt. But Travis is in NO POSITION to not show up and not play hard. He simply has too many question marks and if he doesn't perform, he'll likely cost himself millions. Even with his learning disability, he's probably not THAT stupid.

[Sound_n_Fury]

No, I'm sorry.  The correct question was "Who is Oakland?" 

319323[/snapback]

 

Gee, TH will have to break a few more laws before he can move up to the "varsity," don't you think?

[dave mcbride]

Or see the bigger picture, which you've apparently missed.

319302[/snapback]

what is the bigger picture? look: henry told the bills he wanted out, and the bills said ok, we'll ship you out for what we think is the right price. no one was willing to offer the right price as the bills saw it, and now they're stuck with a guy who doesn't want to be in buffalo (and you can better your bottom dollar he won't be come September 2005). at some point, you've got to recognize an ugly situation and cut your losses instead of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

by the way, this isn't a blanket condemnation of donohoe's tenure, who in my opinion has a so-so record. it's just that in this one instance, i think he should have bitten the bullet and taken whatever he could.

 

can anyone present me with a reasonable alternative that doesn't include praying for camp injuries or the misbegotten hope that henry will be a good soldier in 05?

[dave mcbride]

I'm not sending the message to future players that all they have to do is whine publically and they'll get to leave for next to nothing.  No way, no how.

 

I'm not going to argue that I'd rather have a guy who can contribute - no doubt.  But Travis is in NO POSITION to not show up and not play hard.  He simply has too many question marks and if he doesn't perform, he'll likely cost himself millions.  Even with his learning disability, he's probably not THAT stupid.

319325[/snapback]

 

darin, i fear that he is that stupid (or uncontrolably angry, which is just as bad).

[Campy]

what is the bigger picture? look: henry told the bills he wanted out, and the bills said ok, we'll ship you out for what we think is the right price. no one was willing to offer the right price as the bills saw it, and now they're stuck with a guy who doesn't want to be in buffalo (and you can better your bottom dollar he won't be come September 2005).  at some point, you've got to recognize an ugly situation and cut your losses instead of cutting off your nose to spite your face. 

 

by the way, this isn't a blanket condemnation of donohoe's tenure, who in my opinion has a so-so record.  it's just that in this one instance, i think he should have bitten the bullet and taken whatever he could. 

 

can anyone present me with a reasonable alternative that doesn't include praying for camp injuries or the misbegotten hope that henry will be a good soldier in 05?

319330[/snapback]

A former pro-bowl back making just 1.25M entering his contract year isn't what I'd call a "misbegotten hope that Henry will be a good soldier."

[dave mcbride]

Dave,

 

I think you're nitpicking on TD's remarks.  I think it's safe to say that he received plenty of offers for Henry.  We also agree that most of those offers were for Rounds 5+, which is something that TD can always get for Henry and would prefer to get No. 5 in '06 than in '05.

 

My view is that he answered the question to avoid further catcalls on what is really fair value for Henry, while still keeping his options open for the future.  If he said, "We were offered a No. 5 for Travis, and it was too low," that may prevent some teams from offering a No. 5 for Henry this summer.

 

Thus, by pure definition, yes he lied.  But in coachspeak, he was vague enough to allow us to gleam the truth.

319324[/snapback]

 

Good points - i'll surrender to you on this. as for the bigger issue -- what henry's actual worth is -- the whole response indicates that donohoe's assessment is incorrect.

[dave mcbride]

So, TD does what you want and trades TH for a 7th round pick.  Then, Travis goes out and runs for 1,500 yds and 12 TDs, and everyone is ready to shoot TD because he gave up a probowl back for a 7.  It just doesn't work that way.

 

Travis should not be traded for anything less than a 3.

319322[/snapback]

then the bills will get nothing.

[ch19079]

a 2nd day draft pick is NOTHING. just cus they say "we offered them a draft pick" doesnt mean its a serious offer.

[Sound_n_Fury]

at some point, you've got to recognize an ugly situation and cut your losses instead of cutting off your nose to spite your face. 

319330[/snapback]

 

Agreed. But I don't think we're at that point yet. Maybe in July, but not yet.

 

Many teams will be looking at their rosters now that the draft is over, and some may decide to pull the trigger on TH prior to opening training camp. Let's let the process work a while longer (just as Seattle is doing with Alexander) before pushing the "red button."

[dave mcbride]

Agreed.  But I don't think we're at that point yet.  Maybe in July, but not yet. 

 

Many teams will be looking at their rosters now that the draft is over, and some may decide to pull the trigger on TH prior to opening training camp.  Let's let the process work a while longer (just as Seattle is doing with Alexander) before pushing the "red button."

319356[/snapback]

 

i agree that this isn't over yet, and i remain hopeful. i just never like to be in a situation where you're rooting for injuries. unless memory fails, i can't think of any team losing starting caliber running back before the season last year besides miami, and that was a totally fluky situation.

[dave mcbride]

a 2nd day draft pick is NOTHING. just cus they say "we offered them a draft pick" doesnt mean its a serious offer.

319350[/snapback]

if you believe that, then you may as well fire the scouting staff. there are a lot of contributors to be had in later rounds, and even if they don't start, they can contribute on special teams.

[VABills]

i agree that this isn't over yet, and i remain hopeful. i just never like to be in a situation where you're rooting for injuries. unless memory fails, i can't think of any team losing starting caliber running back before the season last year besides miami, and that was a totally fluky situation.

319365[/snapback]

Cincy with Carter

Panthers with Davis

Lions with Stewart

[CoachChuckDickerson]

what is the bigger picture? look: henry told the bills he wanted out, and the bills said ok, we'll ship you out for what we think is the right price. no one was willing to offer the right price as the bills saw it, and now they're stuck with a guy who doesn't want to be in buffalo (and you can better your bottom dollar he won't be come September 2005).  at some point, you've got to recognize an ugly situation and cut your losses instead of cutting off your nose to spite your face. 

 

by the way, this isn't a blanket condemnation of donohoe's tenure, who in my opinion has a so-so record.  it's just that in this one instance, i think he should have bitten the bullet and taken whatever he could. 

 

can anyone present me with a reasonable alternative that doesn't include praying for camp injuries or the misbegotten hope that henry will be a good soldier in 05?

319330[/snapback]

 

Maybe this will help you. Pretend you just bought a brand new truck. Now your old truck is still good, low mileage 4X4 with some nice options. You decide to sell the old one because you don't need 2 of them. So you list it in the paper for $10,000. A guy calls and says he wants to come over and take a look at it. The 2 of you meet and he loves the truck, thinks it is great. He asks you why you are selling it, to which you reply, "Well I have a new one and don't need this one anymore." "Great," the guy replys, "I'll give you $2,000 and take it off your hands then."

 

No offense guy, but that is how stupid you sound right now.

[Sound_n_Fury]

i agree that this isn't over yet, and i remain hopeful. i just never like to be in a situation where you're rooting for injuries. unless memory fails, i can't think of any team losing starting caliber running back before the season last year besides miami, and that was a totally fluky situation.

319365[/snapback]

 

I don't think it necessarily has to be injury-driven. It may be as simple as adding a new dimension to the offense, as we're doing with Parrish/Everett.

 

In any event, this thread was a good way of verifying how many people are on-line at this time of day...

[dave mcbride]

Cincy with Carter

Panthers with Davis

Lions with Stewart

319370[/snapback]

 

rudi johnson started for cincy last year, and detroit drafted greg jones in the first round. stephen davis got hurt after the season started (in game 2).

[GG]

as for the bigger issue -- what henry's actual worth is -- the whole response indicates that donohoe's assessment is incorrect.

319346[/snapback]

 

It could be, but in the back of his mind, TD knows that he can always peddle Henry for a 5th rounder. So why strike that deal now, when you know it will be available at any time? I don't blame him for trying to get more than 4th or 5th for Henry and waiting until the last possible minute to accept the realistic 5th round trade.