Will folks agree there are 2 separate questions?

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

regarding TH?

 

The whole thins seems to be crawling toward a close with Denny Green publicly saying they are close to finailizing a deal and praising Henry,

 

It seems to me that a few posts have mingled two separate questions which are in fact related but are separate questions in terms of Bills fans.

 

1. What is the assessment of Henry as a player?

 

2. What is the assessment of TD as a GM trader?

 

Some seem to want to indict TD as a fool and cite their claims that Henry is a stiff as a player to justify this assertion. They claim Henry was such a failed choice by TD that the Bills should simply cut this derelict as nobody with any football sense will trade for him.

 

If/when this trade does down the contradiction of the two points that Travis and TD are both football idiots wll be clear.

 

If Travis is as bad as some assert, then they should also cite just as strongly that TD is a genius for getting any trade value for this idiot (much less a vet player and a shift in draft picks),

 

If/when this trade goes down, quite frankly as evidence or an indicator the TD portion will be done. He will have scored a major kudo as we get a player (who will still have to prove himself) but certainly stands a chance at filling the opening left by JJ at LT. Further, IF this deal results in us moving our 1st pick up to where we will almost certainly have a shot at Spencer and may well have a shot at Baas, this move would be marvelous/

 

Alot of work will have to be done once TH is gone as we still will have a critical need to get a #2 RB to spell WM or even step in if the injurt demon revisits, but folks will need to pick one or the other to be consistent.

 

Either they judge TH to be a good player which legitimizes the concept (though not the fact IMHO) that TD should have got more for him.

 

Alternately they can wail about how bad they think TH is in which case this should also be accompanied by kudos to TD for getting value for this nothing.

[/dev/null]

2. What is the assessment of TD as a GM trader?

299120[/snapback]

 

from the TD trades that immediately come to mind

2001: 2 draft day trades with Tampa and Denver that netted us Nate Clements (#21) and Travis Henry (#58) for our 1st (#14). I'd say we made out well

2002: Jay Foreman to Houston for Charlie Rogers. Foreman was an adequate starter for Houston. Rogers was an average to below average return man. Slight advantage: Houston

2002: draft day trade sending 3rd and 4th round picks to SF for 2nd round pick used to select Ryan Denney. A decent trade if you don't count who we drafted vs who we passed up. When you factor in who we took, this trade becomes a push

2002: draft day trade sending 2003 1st to New England for Bledsoe. That 1st became the 14th pick. Big advantage: New England

2003: Peerless to Atlanta. A stroke of brilliance

2004: Mark Campbell from Cleveland for a late round pick: Slight Advantage Buffalo

 

So...

1 push

1 Slight Disadvantage

1 Slight Advantage

1 Advantage

1 Big Disadvantage

1 stroke of genius

 

i'd say he's about average

[plenzmd1]

regarding TH?

 

 

 

Alot of work will have to be done once TH is gone as we still will have a critical need to get a #2 RB to spell WM or even step in if the injurt demon revisits, but folks will need to pick one or the other to be consistent.

 

Either they judge TH to be a good player which legitimizes the concept (though not the fact IMHO) that TD should have got more for him.

 

Alternately they can wail about how bad they think TH is in which case this should also be accompanied by kudos to TD for getting value for this nothing.

299120[/snapback]

 

I am not quite sure of your premise Fat. I, for one, think that TH is a very good, not great RB, and his worth is a second rd pick.I have steadfastly maintained from Nov. last year that TD would be doing great to get a 2nd for him, that is just the state of the NFL today.

 

Are you saying that if I feel TH is a good player, we should get nothing less than a first for him

 

Alternatively, I know next to nothing about Shelton, and do not know his worth on the open market. Is it a 2nd rounder? I do not know. If it is, and we are trading a player that is also worth a 2nd rounder, than even trade, TD is doing his job.

[Albany,n.y.]

I am not quite sure of your premise Fat. I, for one, think that TH is a very good, not great RB, and his worth is a second rd pick.I have steadfastly maintained from  Nov. last year that TD would be doing great to get a 2nd for him, that is just the state of the NFL today.

 

Are you saying that if I feel TH is a good player, we should get nothing less than a first for him

 

Alternatively, I know next to nothing about Shelton, and do not know his worth on the open market. Is it a 2nd rounder? I do not know. If it is, and we are trading a player that is also worth a 2nd rounder, than even trade, TD is doing his job.

299136[/snapback]

 

One factor which you haven't accounted for: How much do you downgrade a player's trade value when he's in the final year of his contract? Travis Henry is definitely worth a 2nd if he's got 2 or more years left on his contract. But, would you give up a 2nd-where you can draft a player who you can lock up for 4 years for a player who can be 1 & done?

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Travis is a really good player. For anyone who thinks otherwise, I dare you to name me even 1 player who wasn't really good and who averaged almost 1400 yards and 12 TD's in consecutive seasons. You can't. But the problem is that Willis is a better player, and Travis would rarely see the field. So Travis' value to the Bills is low, and in addition, it's a buyer's market for RB's, so his trade value would seem to be pretty low as well. The good thing is is all it takes is 2 to tange, and the Cards need a RB, see Travis as the good, cheap, and proven RB that he is, and have a player that is also of low value to them in Shelton, who the Bills could use. Now what Shelton can bring to the Bills is much more of a question mark that what I think Travis will bring to the Cards, but I believe that McNally and Shelton's cousin Daimon's influence will make him a good player for the Bills at LT, and merely just a player-for-player trade would satisfy me. To get the Cards to swap 2nd's would be icing on the cake though, and allow the Bills to select a slightly better player in an otherwise weak draft.

[obie_wan]

Teflon Tom has done well with trades and free agency- but he has paid top dollar in terms of both salary and trade value.

 

Unfortunately, he has had to make such moves because he has failed to acquire significant talent in the draft at reasonable prices.

[ATBNG]

I disagree with premise two FFS. I don't think this trade is that relevant to Donahoe's performance in general. He in many ways made this decision two years ago when he drafted McGahee - certainly a decision that reflects quite well on Donahoe today.

 

I think the mandate now to trade Henry is very clear. The Bills are better off with someone else as a backup running back that can be more of a "third down" back - someone that can protect Losman with both his blocking and his "safety valve" routes on passing downs. The offense figures to rely heavily on McGahee next season and they risk wearing him out if they try to play him in too high a percentage of the snaps.

[Kelly the Dog]

IF this trade goes through with the swap of the seconds, TD will have gotten Travis Henry for absolutely free (not to mention drafting a top CB instead of a lousy OT), had him for four years (the average career for a RB), two of which were very good years, and then got a starting LT and a move up in the second round for that same player while his back-up, also a shrewd move, is on the verge of being a special player in this league.

 

I would consider those machinations pretty good.