plenzmd1 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 4 hours ago, JohnC said: . My sense is that he is not enamored with Skinner's one dimensional and lone ranger style of play. He pointed out that he and the other coaches are working with him to get him back on track. But he has also insinuated that he is not giving any player a reward unless he earns it. (See my response to BillsFan4 on this issue.) 2 hours ago, bbb said: But, not a diminished bank account... Wow, not “ rewarding” your $9m/ 8 year guy in year 1? Oh my, that can’t be going well between coach and GM who made the signing. One dimensional play is why he was paid $9m, score freaking goals being that one dimension. Cat ain’t changing his stripes at his age, he never gunna be a responsible two way player. He scores freaking goals when he plays with other good players. this could get interesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 hours ago, bbb said: But, not a diminished bank account... You sign a contract/deal that you and management agreed to. What you get is what you got offered. Sometimes the system works against you; and sometimes the system works in your favor. Some players play above their contracts while others play below it. This is the reality of the workplace that exists in all fields of endeavor. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said: Wow, not “ rewarding” your $9m/ 8 year guy in year 1? Oh my, that can’t be going well between coach and GM who made the signing. One dimensional play is why he was paid $9m, score freaking goals being that one dimension. Cat ain’t changing his stripes at his age, he never gunna be a responsible two way player. He scores freaking goals when he plays with other good players. this could get interesting. For the most part we agree on this issue. (A rarity!?) Skinner is a goal scorer who relies on other players. Unless the players he plays with are dramatically upgraded the team won't get the production from him worthy of his bonanza contract. I listened to Biron on WGR talking about Skinner. What he said about Skinner mimicked the not so oblique Krueger's assessment of Skinner. Make no mistake about both of their comments: They were each critical of the player. My assessment of the situation is not as harsh about the player. His game is predicated on being set up by players who are first or second line caliber. He is not playing with that type of players. Or another way of looking at it he is not being put in a position to succeed. I don't see the situation being much altered until better talent is brought in, most likely in the offseason. Edited February 21, 2020 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardhatharry Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 34 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: Wow, not “ rewarding” your $9m/ 8 year guy in year 1? Oh my, that can’t be going well between coach and GM who made the signing. One dimensional play is why he was paid $9m, score freaking goals being that one dimension. Cat ain’t changing his stripes at his age, he never gunna be a responsible two way player. He scores freaking goals when he plays with other good players. this could get interesting. This is how it is with just about every good player, they need someone else there with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Man, the Sabres could use some of this heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 The attached link is a column by Bill Hoppe from the Buffalo Hockey Beat. He talks about the friendship among Larsson, Girgs and Risto. One stark statistic he gives is Risto's improvement from a -41 to his current 0 plus/minus. This is an illustration that coaching matters. My hope is that Larsson and Risto are both retained. But this team has to consider all offers. http://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/through-seven-years-of-losing-three-sabres-have-grown-close/?view=getnewpost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 2 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: Man, the Sabres could use some of this heart I hope he got the penalty for jumping into the hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, JohnC said: The attached link is a column by Bill Hoppe from the Buffalo Hockey Beat. He talks about the friendship among Larsson, Girgs and Risto. One stark statistic he gives is Risto's improvement from a -41 to his current 0 plus/minus. This is an illustration that coaching matters. My hope is that Larsson and Risto are both retained. But this team has to consider all offers. http://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/through-seven-years-of-losing-three-sabres-have-grown-close/?view=getnewpost I have not read the article, but the problem is no one outside dinosaurs use +/- as a relevant statistic anymore. Bout as useful as hits. https://hockey-graphs.com/2016/11/01/behind-the-numbers-why-plusminus-is-the-worst-statistic-in-hockey-and-should-be-abolished/ And, I can see Bots using it in trade negotiations, and other GMs with half a brain using more modern and advanced stats and laughing at Bots trade demands for Risto. As Burke said, he was ready to pull the trigger on the Risto a few years back, till his analytics folks told him he would be an idiot to trade for him. 7 minutes ago, shrader said: I hope he got the penalty for jumping into the hit. But he has to jump or he gunna hit dudes in the junk! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 If the Pegulas did either of these things, I feel like it would prove that they haven’t learned anything. If they get rid of Botterill, they NEED to bring in someone experienced to run the team. I wouldn’t mind Krueger in some type of team president role or something like that, but they still need a veteran GM to get this thing back on track. I like Kevyn Adams but he has no experience running an NHL team. I hope Friedman is just purely speculating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) I don’t really want him in Rochester. Why would yo7 want a disgruntled vet around our prospects? I’m assuming Bogo wants his contract terminated sooner rather than later if that’s the route he chooses. He has to sign with a playoff team before the deadline if he wants to be able to play in the playoffs. Edit - figured thats where this was headed. Edited February 21, 2020 by BillsFan4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said: If the Pegulas did either of these things, I feel like it would prove that they haven’t learned anything. If they get rid of Botterill, they NEED to bring in someone experienced to run the team. I wouldn’t mind Krueger in some type of team president role or something like that, but they still need a veteran GM to get this thing back on track. I like Kevyn Adams but he has no experience running an NHL team. I hope Friedman is just purely speculating. Of course he's speculating. The whole quote is "they could do this, they could do that... no one really knows what they'll do". They could go off in just about any direction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) OKay, can someone explain the difference between "waivers" and "unconditional waivers"? Found it..guess a player has to clear this unconditional waivers in order for the club to terminate a players contract ...man, some of these things in hockey confusing as hell Edited February 21, 2020 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: OKay, can someone explain the difference between "waivers" and "unconditional waivers"? Found it..guess a player has to clear this unconditional waivers in order for the club to terminate a players contract ...man, some of these things in hockey confusing as hell You retain some level of control after the former and you have no control after the latter. You pretty much nailed it, one you use when you want to reassign the player. The other is for the end of the line and you're completely cutting ties with the player. Baseball has the two different types of waivers too, but with completely different rules. I feel like football has something similar too, but maybe with different language. Don't they have the rule where players with a certain amount of experience are a free agent immediately while others have to first go through waivers? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, shrader said: You retain some level of control after the former and you have no control after the latter. You pretty much nailed it, one you use when you want to reassign the player. The other is for the end of the line and you're completely cutting ties with the player. Baseball has the two different types of waivers too, but with completely different rules. I feel like football has something similar too, but maybe with different language. Don't they have the rule where players with a certain amount of experience are a free agent immediately while others have to first go through waivers? yes, football i think is 4 years and the player does not go through waivers, is immediately a free agent. Update, his contract has been terminated. Is there another team in the NHL where people want out so desperately they give up money to do so? Now its a regular occurrence for the Sabres. Edited February 21, 2020 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) Sabres Twitter not happy about this Kase trade Edited February 21, 2020 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 3 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: I have not read the article, but the problem is no one outside dinosaurs use +/- as a relevant statistic anymore. Bout as useful as hits. https://hockey-graphs.com/2016/11/01/behind-the-numbers-why-plusminus-is-the-worst-statistic-in-hockey-and-should-be-abolished/ And, I can see Bots using it in trade negotiations, and other GMs with half a brain using more modern and advanced stats and laughing at Bots trade demands for Risto. As Burke said, he was ready to pull the trigger on the Risto a few years back, till his analytics folks told him he would be an idiot to trade for him. But he has to jump or he gunna hit dudes in the junk! It doesn't matter what advanced stats you want to use in evaluating Risto it is clearly evident that under Krueger he is playing better. By simplifying his role as a defender and getting him to play a smarter and more efficient style of game Risto has unquestionably played better this season. If you want to quibble about stats I got another recommendation for you: If you open your jaundiced eyes it would be clear to even you that he is having a good season. The one predictable thing about Brian Burke is that whatever organization he goes to he will be fired from. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, JohnC said: It doesn't matter what advanced stats you want to use in evaluating Risto it is clearly evident that under Krueger he is playing better.. Ah Kemosobe, this is where you have your head in the ground. Advanced stats run the league now, and the numbers tell ya Risto still stinks. is he playing better? Yes but That’s akin to saying the Sabres are better because they went to last under Bots in his first year and now have climbed to 5 th worst. Better? Yes. Good? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) 45 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: Sabres Twitter not happy about this Kase trade Kase would have been a nice add, but he’s always injured. He’s never played a full season in the NHL. Plus boston gave up a 1st and a RHD prospect they just drafted in the 2nd in 2018. Plus a cap dump (Backes, who has 1 yr left on his deal) with Boston retaining 25%. Im not sure what the equivalent package from Buffalo would be. We definitely can’t trade our 1st. Would a 2nd + good d prospect get it done? Not sure who the equivalent of Andersson would be in our system. Definitely not trading Ryan Johnson. Samuelsson and Borgen are more physical defensive defenseman (I believe Andersson is more of an offensive defenseman). I don’t know how Laaksonen is viewed vs. Andersson. Oskari Laaksonen wasn’t even on the NHL scouting registry when buffalo drafted him. He had a great season last year and has taken a step back this year. I have no clue how he’s viewed in the scouting community. This is supposed to be a pretty deep draft, so Bob Murray may have put a lot of value on getting a 1st back in the trade. edit - for reference, here’s the full trade details - Edited February 21, 2020 by BillsFan4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: Ah Kemosobe, this is where you have your head in the ground. Advanced stats run the league now, and the numbers tell ya Risto still stinks. is he playing better? Yes but That’s akin to saying the Sabres are better because they went to last under Bots in his first year and now have climbed to 5 th worst. Better? Yes. Good? No. Do you know who has a different view on Risto compared to your view? Krueger. He is still accumulating the most minutes from the unit because the HC has a different assessment from yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, JohnC said: Do you know who has a different view on Risto compared to your view? Krueger. He is still accumulating the most minutes from the unit because the HC has a different assessment from yours. Might be, Risto played the most minutes last year too and you said he sucked last year? So.. Put your head in the sand all you want, the NHL is almost entirly run now by guys who buy into the analytics. Reason why Bruce Cassidy says "i need to see the numbers" and not " i need to see the tape" when someone asks him what he thought of someones play in a game. It is also the reason Bots cannot trade him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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