Justice Posted December 25, 2017 Author Share Posted December 25, 2017 4 hours ago, 3rdnlng said: So, because our freedoms haven't expanded since 9/11 everything we've done is a failure? Looks like I may have worded that wrong. What I meant to ask or should’ve asked if you felt less free post 9/11 and if you answers yes then they’ve failed to protect our freedom. My apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 4 hours ago, westerndecline said: There's a difference between an educated guess as a random citizen and then government that actually has to give out statements that actually have credibility not guess work It's actually an indictment of something much worse and nefarious Its not complicated or nefarious at all. Many of the hijackers identities were known prior to the actual crashes. It took no time at all to link them to al-Qaeda, and numerous intercepted transmissions that day pointed to bin Laden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 6 hours ago, Justice said: Looks like I may have worded that wrong. What I meant to ask or should’ve asked if you felt less free post 9/11 and if you answers yes then they’ve failed to protect our freedom. My apologies. Do you not recognize that the world has changed? All we can do is to make every attempt to stay as free as possible while securing as much safety as we can. There's no doubt that we are more inconvenienced than prior to 9/11. An airline flight can test our patience while a trip to the motor vehicle department may require 7 forms of I.D. The reservoir that my daughter used to go sledding on is now fenced. These inconveniences or loss of freedom are not the military's fault. Anyway you try to phrase it that blames the military for the changing world is misguided. I don't know why you try. Regardless, Happy Holidays to you and yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted December 25, 2017 Author Share Posted December 25, 2017 1 hour ago, 3rdnlng said: Do you not recognize that the world has changed? All we can do is to make every attempt to stay as free as possible while securing as much safety as we can. There's no doubt that we are more inconvenienced than prior to 9/11. An airline flight can test our patience while a trip to the motor vehicle department may require 7 forms of I.D. The reservoir that my daughter used to go sledding on is now fenced. These inconveniences or loss of freedom are not the military's fault. Anyway you try to phrase it that blames the military for the changing world is misguided. I don't know why you try. Regardless, Happy Holidays to you and yours. Same to you. I’m not blaming the military. They only do as they’re told. My issue is with that slogan. You do realize the military has a marketing department, right? Nice slogans like that and those commercials get people to join. You can’t convince me that fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan is for our freedom. If anything it’s put our lives in danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinga Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 10 hours ago, Justice said: Maybe he should take some history lessons on this thread. I never once questioned whether retaliation was justifiable or not. Ppl putting words in my mouth. Not cool. This is your thread right? Isn't the title "Fighting for our Freedom?" with as question mark as you then go on to say we haven't been attacked here since Pearl? But then, you prefer the twisted narrative you have shown as the victim in all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted December 25, 2017 Author Share Posted December 25, 2017 57 minutes ago, Cinga said: This is your thread right? Isn't the title "Fighting for our Freedom?" with as question mark as you then go on to say we haven't been attacked here since Pearl? But then, you prefer the twisted narrative you have shown as the victim in all this. Victim of what exactly? Maybe you’re retarded but try to keep it in context. If that isn’t too difficult for you. Think you can do that? Here. I’ll help. I did not include 9/11 because it wasn’t an attack that threatened our freedom. I shouldn’t have even mentioned Pearl Harbor for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, Justice said: Victim of what exactly? Maybe you’re retarded but try to keep it in context. If that isn’t too difficult for you. Think you can do that? Here. I’ll help. I did not include 9/11 because it wasn’t an attack that threatened our freedom. I shouldn’t have even mentioned Pearl Harbor for that matter. 9/11 wasn't an attack that necessarily threatened our freedom as a country, but it certainly has led to affecting our freedoms in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted December 25, 2017 Author Share Posted December 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: 9/11 wasn't an attack that necessarily threatened our freedom as a country, but it certainly has led to affecting our freedoms in this country. Outside of longer lines at the airport how has these freedoms affected you personally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 42 minutes ago, Justice said: Outside of longer lines at the airport how has these freedoms affected you personally? It's astounding that you miss the point of a thread that you started. Since you profess to not knowing the mindset of a terrorist, I ask that you consider how your personal freedom has been affected. The freedoms we used to enjoy are the freedoms that affect every person living in America. So tell me, what's it like living in America as a Muslim since 9/11. Has your freedom changed? How do you think that imams feel, knowing that their congregations are under increased scrutiny? How about the blowback towards a Muslim investor group trying to build a run of the mill skyscraper two blocks away from WTC? Why do you think that happened? Does that factor in your question of changed freedom? As for me personally, my freedom has fundamentally changed - everything from navigating the new street grids in Manhattan, the ever present balusters on sidewalks, getting pictures taken when I walk into a building, being apprehensive on any bike path, keeping my head up on a subway, or any other way that I live my life now every time I step on Manhattan Island. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted December 25, 2017 Author Share Posted December 25, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, GG said: It's astounding that you miss the point of a thread that you started. Since you profess to not knowing the mindset of a terrorist, I ask that you consider how your personal freedom has been affected. The freedoms we used to enjoy are the freedoms that affect every person living in America. So tell me, what's it like living in America as a Muslim since 9/11. Has your freedom changed? How do you think that imams feel, knowing that their congregations are under increased scrutiny? How about the blowback towards a Muslim investor group trying to build a run of the mill skyscraper two blocks away from WTC? Why do you think that happened? Does that factor in your question of changed freedom? As for me personally, my freedom has fundamentally changed - everything from navigating the new street grids in Manhattan, the ever present balusters on sidewalks, getting pictures taken when I walk into a building, being apprehensive on any bike path, keeping my head up on a subway, or any other way that I live my life now every time I step on Manhattan Island. It hasn’t changed one bit for me. As far as all those other things I don’t mind them. Safety first. Like I said before. Go to a place where freedom is actually limited. Spend some real time there then come back and tell me you don’t feel free here. We’re spoiled. And I didn’t miss the point of my thread. If anything you’re proving it by complaining about all the freedom we lost. Fighting hasn’t kept our freedom fully intact therefore they ain’t fighting for our freedom. How does fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan protect our freedom? Those attackers on 9/11 were Saudi. Afghanistan harbored terrorists and got what they deserved, I recognize that, but Iraq??? Edited December 25, 2017 by Justice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerndecline Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 10 hours ago, sherpa said: Its not complicated or nefarious at all. Many of the hijackers identities were known prior to the actual crashes. It took no time at all to link them to al-Qaeda, and numerous intercepted transmissions that day pointed to bin Laden. Of course The govt told u this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, westerndecline said: Of course The govt told u this... You don't want to go down this road. The gov and independent commissions full of non political have explained it in great detail. The part about identifying them before they crashed, I know that from non government sources, as does everyone else. If you are going to get into an exercise about that event, I am not hopeful you will bring joy into your life. It would best be avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 30 minutes ago, Justice said: It hasn’t changed one bit for me. As far as all those other things I don’t mind them. Safety first. Like I said before. Go to a place where freedom is actually limited. Spend some real time there then come back and tell me you don’t feel free here. We’re spoiled. And I didn’t miss the point of my thread. If anything you’re proving it by complaining about all the freedom we lost. Fighting hasn’t kept our freedom fully intact therefore they ain’t fighting for our freedom. How does fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan protect our freedom? Those attackers on 9/11 were Saudi. Afghanistan harbored terrorists and got what they deserved, I recognize that, but Iraq??? Whether we're spoiled relative to other nations is immaterial, because the freedom we used to enjoy is no longer there. Some say we were too innocent prior to 9/11, but again that shouldn't matter. Our innocence was fought for in previous generations. There have been countless threads debating the true nature of USA's presence in Mid East, and yours doesn't even scratch the surface. Do some research first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerndecline Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 14 minutes ago, sherpa said: You don't want to go down this road. The gov and independent commissions full of non political have explained it in great detail. The part about identifying them before they crashed, I know that from non government sources, as does everyone else. If you are going to get into an exercise about that event, I am not hopeful you will bring joy into your life. It would best be avoided. Did the fbi warn the cia about this literally dozens of times with explicit detail? Names, funding, training places times, associates etc?? http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123885&page=1 https://web.archive.org/web/20020802194310/http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerndecline Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinga Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 3 hours ago, Justice said: It hasn’t changed one bit for me. As far as all those other things I don’t mind them. Safety first. Like I said before. Go to a place where freedom is actually limited. Spend some real time there then come back and tell me you don’t feel free here. We’re spoiled. And I didn’t miss the point of my thread. If anything you’re proving it by complaining about all the freedom we lost. Fighting hasn’t kept our freedom fully intact therefore they ain’t fighting for our freedom. How does fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan protect our freedom? Those attackers on 9/11 were Saudi. Afghanistan harbored terrorists and got what they deserved, I recognize that, but Iraq??? Spoiled as compared to the rest of the world is correct, and that is what America is all about. Anyone that prefers it like some other part of the world is welcome to move there. While you apparently don't mind the loss of Freedoms in the name of more security, most here in this country resent that idea.... Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.... Ben Franklin You see, it's this very liberty that makes me safe. I don't need government intrusion to grant me that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 44 minutes ago, Cinga said: Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.... Ben Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted December 26, 2017 Author Share Posted December 26, 2017 59 minutes ago, Cinga said: Spoiled as compared to the rest of the world is correct, and that is what America is all about. Anyone that prefers it like some other part of the world is welcome to move there. While you apparently don't mind the loss of Freedoms in the name of more security, most here in this country resent that idea.... Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.... Ben Franklin You see, it's this very liberty that makes me safe. I don't need government intrusion to grant me that. What lost freedoms are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinga Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 12 minutes ago, Justice said: What lost freedoms are you referring to? Twisting in the wind again I see.... Did you not say this? Quote It hasn’t changed one bit for me. As far as all those other things I don’t mind them. Safety first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted December 26, 2017 Author Share Posted December 26, 2017 12 minutes ago, Cinga said: Twisting in the wind again I see.... Did you not say this? I made it clear I’m not missing any that bother me or affect me. I’m asking YOU which ones do YOU miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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