JohnC Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Roster construction is infinitely easier when you have the greatest QB ever to play in your starting lineup. I'm not going to disagree with you that having the best qb in the history of the game is a major reason for their success but it goes beyond this one phenomenal player. The Pats approach to roster building from a talent and cap value system is cold bloody analystical. As and example they traded away Jamie Collins, one of the better LBs in the league, for a draft pick because they knew they couldn't sign him at the price they wanted this offseason. The defense didn't skip a beat. Their organization is one of the most successful organizations in modern history because they are arguably the best in managing their roster and cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 I'm not going to disagree with you that having the best qb in the history of the game is a major reason for their success but it goes beyond this one phenomenal player. The Pats approach to roster building from a talent and cap value system is cold bloody analystical. As and example they traded away Jamie Collins, one of the better LBs in the league, for a draft pick because they knew they couldn't sign him at the price they wanted this offseason. The defense didn't skip a beat. Their organization is one of the most successful organizations in modern history because they are arguably the best in managing their roster and cap. I'm not saying that the p*ts don't manage their cap well, just that it's a lousy comparison to compare them to any other team in the league when it comes to that because of Br*dy. Elite QB play masks the holes on the roster better than any thing else in a GM's toolbox. Elite coaching and elite QB play is what allows the p*ts to be "bold" with their roster when it comes to cutting veteran or "star" players. Their organization is the most successful (because they cheat) because they lucked into Br*dy in the 6th round and were smart enough to let BB run the team. That's it. It's not because of Kr*ft's genius or any sort of moneyball nonsense. It's all about the QB and coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) I don't disagree. There are a handful of elite backs who disprove the "rule" that RB's are overvalued. McCoy's one of them. How many others are there in the league? Maybe five... five guys who, despite it being a passing league, can impact the game in ways "dime a dozen" RBs cannot. Spot on. Yes and no. There are certainly great back out there who defy that dime a dozen mentalitiy. But, and a huge but, I don't know if a McCoy-esque player would be worth the contract on a team like NE. When so much of your cap is dedicated to a QB, I don't think it's necessarily smart football to also dedicate big money to an RB. Especially in their system. Obviously, I think McCoy is and has been a special type of RB. I have him a little lower than AP, because to me, AP takes over games moreso than Shady. I think there's the "game-manager" approach, where you rely on a very special back because your QB can't do it all on his own, a la Teddy and AP, Smith and Charles (in the past, not so much these last years) and even TT/Shady. But if you have a $20M year cap hit for the QB, something has to give on the offense and RB is probably at the top of the list. Especially because that position gets hit with the injury bug so frequently. Having a stable of cheap rotational guys fits their team building strategy a lot more. Just MO, of course. Edited February 6, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Yes and no. There are certainly great back out there who defy that dime a dozen mentalitiy. But, and a huge but, I don't know if a McCoy-esque player would be worth the contract on a team like NE. When so much of your cap is dedicated to a QB, I don't think it's necessarily smart football to also dedicate big money to an RB. Especially in their system. Obviously, I think McCoy is and has been a special type of RB. I have him a little lower than AP, because to me, AP takes over games moreso than Shady. I think there's the "game-manager" approach, where you rely on a very special back because your QB can't do it all on his own, a la Teddy and AP, Smith and Charles (in the past, not so much these last years) and even TT/Shady. But if you have a $20M year cap hit for the QB, something has to give on the offense and RB is probably at the top of the list. Especially because that position gets hit with the injury bug so frequently. Having a stable of cheap rotational guys fits their team building strategy a lot more. Just MO, of course. If a team has a HOF QB in place, McCoy has less value than he would on a team with a game manager/unproven QB. I don't deny that at all. It's a passing league. But that doesn't mean passing is the only way you can win -- it's just the most efficient with the rules as they are today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 There are a handful of really good backs in the NFL. Shady is in that handful.Agreed. And, if he thinks he is the best and it trying to prove....even better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) Shady is a very good but he's still not far from a dime-a-dozen.........none of them are Some one drive this guy home. He's been far from dime a dozen a long time. Ask a Giants/Skins/Cowboys fan about it. That long run vs jags after a meh showing from the team won games more than once. Not dime a dozen guys include Shady, Bell, Zeke, and David Johnson. Edited February 7, 2017 by Ryan L Billz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Some one drive this guy home. He's been far from dime a dozen a long time. Ask a Giants/Skins/Cowboys fan about it. That long run vs jags after a meh showing from the team won games more than once. Not dime a dozen guys include Shady, Bell, Zeke, and David Johnson. Gotta hand it to him, it's brilliant bullshiteing. "Shady's very good but he's still not far from a dime a dozen..." is parsing words to the point of absurdity. Not specific enough to get called out for being wrong, and flexible enough to deflect any rebuttal, but ultimately meaningless. It's the equivalent of saying 2+2 is very close to equaling 4 but still it's not far from equaling 98 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Gotta hand it to him, it's brilliant bullshiteing. "Shady's very good but he's still not far from a dime a dozen..." is parsing words to the point of absurdity. Not specific enough to get called out for being wrong, and flexible enough to deflect any rebuttal, but ultimately meaningless. It's the equivalent of saying 2+2 is very close to equaling 4 but still it's not far from equaling 98 million. I actually explained it in good detail......you just chose not to highlight that. Facts are facts......it's not even that the RB position is "devalued" anymore....it was "devalued" a good DOZEN years ago when teams started going to RB by committee. Now it's a role players position. The kind of production teams using a group of cheap, specialized backs like the Pats or Falcons........or just cheap young backs in general........is very comparable on a per touch basis to what a back like McCoy can do.........and being role players they don't command touches at the expense of throwing the football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 I actually explained it in good detail......you just chose not to highlight that. Quite the opposite. I was complimenting your skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts