thebandit27 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 The Chandler catch was the most "clutch" on that game winning drive. I don't see how a 4th down catch is bigger than the game-winner. For that matter, is Hogan clutch for his leaping grab to set up the winner? Personally, I find it pointless to rate the "clutchness" of key plays on a game winning drive; they all matter. The post I responded to claimed that Watkins hasn't made a big play in a crucial situation; the game winner against Minnesota clearly qualifies as that IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) I don't see how a 4th down catch is bigger than the game-winner. For that matter, is Hogan clutch for his leaping grab to set up the winner? Personally, I find it pointless to rate the "clutchness" of key plays on a game winning drive; they all matter. The post I responded to claimed that Watkins hasn't made a big play in a crucial situation; the game winner against Minnesota clearly qualifies as that IMO The win probabilty before that 4th and 20 was 4%. Win probabilty boosts from 4-32%. It was the defining play with the lowest statistical percentage of it happening. I also remeber the throw from Orton was wild and Chandler made an incredible one handed catch on the run. Game is over without that play. After the Hogan catch the win probabilty boosted to 83%. There was also a penalty before that play that dropped the win % in the 20's. Chandler and Hogan should be called "clutch" players too then. Edited December 5, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 The win probabilty before that 4th and 20 was 4%. Win probabilty boosts from 4-32%. It was the defining play with the lowest statistical percentage of it happening. I also remeber the throw from Orton was wild and Chandler made an incredible one handed catch on the run. Game is over without that play. After the Hogan catch the win probabilty boosted to 83%. There was also a penalty before that play that dropped the win % in the 20's. Chandler and Hogan should be called "clutch" players too then. Perhaps you missed the last sentence of my last post. Ranking the "clutchness" of those plays is immaterial. You are also misremembering the Chandler catch. It wasn't wild; he bobbled it: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000413645/Week-7-Vikings-vs-Bills-highlights You can choose to marginalize the importance of the game-winning catch for reasons tangential to the discussion of you wish; I believe that makes no sense, particularly in the context of this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBBullsfan Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Bills receivers, ranked:1)Watkins2) Clay3) McCoy4) Hogan5) Woods6) Easley What the Bills think of their receivers1) Woods2) Hogan3) McCoy4) Watkins5) Clay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Bills receivers, ranked: 1)Watkins 2) Clay 3) McCoy 4) Hogan 5) Woods 6) Easley What the Bills think of their receivers 1) Woods 2) Hogan 3) McCoy 4) Watkins 5) Clay I love reading posts like these, critiques of our system based in the assumption that our flawed QB makes every read correctly and is executing plays and scheme to perfection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBBullsfan Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Tyrod Taylor is a Bill isn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Darby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Perhaps you missed the last sentence of my last post. Ranking the "clutchness" of those plays is immaterial. You are also misremembering the Chandler catch. It wasn't wild; he bobbled it: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000413645/Week-7-Vikings-vs-Bills-highlights You can choose to marginalize the importance of the game-winning catch for reasons tangential to the discussion of you wish; I believe that makes no sense, particularly in the context of this discussion. Casual fans often miss the finer points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) Perhaps you missed the last sentence of my last post. Ranking the "clutchness" of those plays is immaterial. You are also misremembering the Chandler catch. It wasn't wild; he bobbled it: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000413645/Week-7-Vikings-vs-Bills-highlights You can choose to marginalize the importance of the game-winning catch for reasons tangential to the discussion of you wish; I believe that makes no sense, particularly in the context of this discussion. My point is your example in the Minnesota game does not make Watkins a "clutch" player. Casual fans often miss the finer points. Casual fans bought into the hype of flashy names and thought this was a playoff team going into the season and now because the teams expecations have faultered are blaming it on Rex. Edited December 5, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 My point is your example in the Minnesota game does not make Watkins a "clutch" player. Casual fans bought into the hype of flashy names and thought this was a playoff team going into the season. Ok, so game-winning catches don't make a guy a clutch player because someone else also contributed on the game-winning drive? What about when he made the circus catch to beat Detroit 3 weeks prior? There doesn't seem to be any defined logic at work here, so please define it for me: what, exactly, makes a clutch player if not making game-winning plays? Or is it possible that the whole idea of defining a guy as clutch is silly to begin with because every single play in the game matters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Casual fans bought into the hype of flashy names and thought this was a playoff team going into the season and now because the teams expecations have faultered are blaming it on Rex. Your definition of casual needs work, friend. Ok, so game-winning catches don't make a guy a clutch player because someone else also contributed on the game-winning drive? What about when he made the circus catch to beat Detroit 3 weeks prior? There doesn't seem to be any defined logic at work here, so please define it for me: what, exactly, makes a clutch player if not making game-winning plays? Or is it possible that the whole idea of defining a guy as clutch is silly to begin with because every single play in the game matters? Casual fans don't do logic. They do emotional outrage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Tyrod has shown clutch ability vs Tennessee; his 2 big scrambles & dime to Hogan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) Ok, so game-winning catches don't make a guy a clutch player because someone else also contributed on the game-winning drive? What about when he made the circus catch to beat Detroit 3 weeks prior? There doesn't seem to be any defined logic at work here, so please define it for me: what, exactly, makes a clutch player if not making game-winning plays? Or is it possible that the whole idea of defining a guy as clutch is silly to begin with because every single play in the game matters? An example of a game-winning catch doesn't make a guy clutch. I don't think anyone would call James Hardy a "clutch" WR An exampe of a circus catch doesn't make a guy clutch. I don't think anyone would call David Tyree a "clutch" WR and he even helped win a superbowl. Just like I wouldn't call Hogan and Chandler "clutch". The idea of "clutch" as being silly is the most accurate statement. Edited December 5, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 An example of a game-winning catche doesn't make a guy clutch. I don't think anyone would call James Hardy a "clutch" WR An exampe of a circus catch doesn't make a guy clutch. I don't think anyone would call David Tyree a "clutch" WR and he even helped win a superbowl. Just like I wouldn't call Hogan and Chandler "clutch". The idea of "clutch" as being silly is the most accurate statement. But Sammy making three game winning catches (Minnesota, Detroit, and the Jets this year) means nothing! NOTHING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) But Sammy making three game winning catches (Minnesota, Detroit, and the Jets this year) means nothing! NOTHING! Since this statement is false it in fact doesn't mean anything. Edited December 5, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Since this statement is false it in fact doesn't mean anything. Sammy didn't catch the game winners in those games? For a guy who claims not to be a casual fan, you sure have a casual memory of the games the Bills have played. http://www.nfl.com/videos/buffalo-bills/0ap3000000405801/Sammy-Watkins-tips-to-himself http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/kyle-orton-finds-sammy-watkins-for-game-winning-td-in-final-seconds-203454008.html http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25372374/look-watkins-absolutely-burned-revis-with-the-game-on-the-line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 An example of a game-winning catch doesn't make a guy clutch. I don't think anyone would call James Hardy a "clutch" WR An exampe of a circus catch doesn't make a guy clutch. I don't think anyone would call David Tyree a "clutch" WR and he even helped win a superbowl. Just like I wouldn't call Hogan and Chandler "clutch". The idea of "clutch" as being silly is the most accurate statement. Then wouldn't it be more genuine of you to simply state that you don't believe in clutch players rather than to debate the merits of one player point by idiosyncratic point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Then wouldn't it be more genuine of you to simply state that you don't believe in clutch players rather than to debate the merits of one player point by idiosyncratic point? It would be more genuine, but it wouldn't serve his crusade: Whaley bad, Sammy bad, McCoy bad, anyone who doesn't agree with him is a casual fan. Lather, rinse, repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Sammy didn't catch the game winners in those games? For a guy who claims not to be a casual fan, you sure have a casual memory of the games the Bills have played. http://www.nfl.com/videos/buffalo-bills/0ap3000000405801/Sammy-Watkins-tips-to-himself http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/kyle-orton-finds-sammy-watkins-for-game-winning-td-in-final-seconds-203454008.html http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25372374/look-watkins-absolutely-burned-revis-with-the-game-on-the-line All I have to do is look at the first link to prove my point that sammy didn't catch the game winner. The game was won by Dan Carpenter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 All I have to do is look at the first link to prove my point that sammy didn't catch the game winner. The game was won by Dan Carpenter. Who could never have made the kick if Sammy doesn't make that catch. But again, casual fans often miss the finer points of the game. It's okay, football is hard to understand sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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