mountainwampus Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 How exactly is it unreal? You can play the hindsight game with every team for every draft. TJ Graham was not a hindsight mistake. Someone was smoking crack that day. Maybe the draft board smudged and the Y looked like a J. The Bills purposely discarded the 7th rd pick (as if the Jags had any interest in a player like TJ after taking Blackmon? Not likely.) Everyone questioned the pick from the moment it was made. TY was one of the BPAs at WR and has the complete WR skill set. TJ was the biggest reach of the draft. His combine performance was abysmal. His college career was riddled with fumbles. Only success he's ever had were huge punt returns, running in straight lines. How does that translate to playing WR in the NFL? It doesn't. The Bills are going to lose as long as he's on the field. He's just that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 TJ Graham was not a hindsight mistake. Someone was smoking crack that day. Maybe the draft board smudged and the Y looked like a J. The Bills purposely discarded the 7th rd pick (as if the Jags had any interest in a player like TJ after taking Blackmon? Not likely.) Everyone questioned the pick from the moment it was made. TY was one of the BPAs at WR and has the complete WR skill set. TJ was the biggest reach of the draft. His combine performance was abysmal. His college career was riddled with fumbles. Only success he's ever had were huge punt returns, running in straight lines. How does that translate to playing WR in the NFL? It doesn't. The Bills are going to lose as long as he's on the field. He's just that bad. The last sentence is a the epitome of hyperbole. Other than that the above post is factually correct. The TJ Graham pick was incredibly bad at the time and almost 3 years later it isn't a surprise to anyone paying attention to the draft prospects how poorly TJ Graham plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offyourocker Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Im still pissed at how we had 6 shots at taking Tom Brady and we overlooked him... He would have failed with a Buffalo on the cheap head coach and completely unknown OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 TJ Graham had a 7th-FA rating on most draft boards TY Hilton was actually rated a 3rd rounder - I still think that there was a giant miscommunication on that draft pick, I mean the Bills actually traded up a couple of spots to get Graham it makes zero sense unless someone lost a bet or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 The Graham pick was one of Tom Modrak's parting shots. His decade of ineptitude was characterized by multiple "I want to show everyone how smart I am" selections that defied conventional wisdom. It will take another draft or two to cleanse the team of all of his missteps. Is it any wonder that Donahoe's first draft -- the only one WITHOUT Modrak -- was by far his best. All that said, I wonder how great Hilton would be now with the QBs the Bills have rolled out there the last 2 seasons rather than Andrew Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainwampus Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 The last sentence is a the epitome of hyperbole. Other than that the above post is factually correct. The TJ Graham pick was incredibly bad at the time and almost 3 years later it isn't a surprise to anyone paying attention to the draft prospects how poorly TJ Graham plays. It's just not possible to be a winning team when you have a WR that runs wrong routes nearly every week on 3rd downs. TJ is playoff kyrptonite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Also, why were the Philly fans "impatient" with Foles, when he was backing up Vick? Makes no sense--who gets "impatient" with a guy standing on the sidelines with a baseball cap on? That sounds kind of ridiculous. Maybe they were "impatient" for Foles to take over for the awful Mike Vick. Because as soon as Foles came in, he was lighting it up for the rest of the year, so what on earth were they complaining about? They were impatient because Foles played 7 games as a rookie, starting 6 of them and because the team also drafted Matt Barkley. In spite of having a very good rookie year, very few Philly fans believed that Foles was the answer. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 They were impatient because Foles played 7 games as a rookie, starting 6 of them and because the team also drafted Matt Barkley. In spite of having a very good rookie year, very few Philly fans believed that Foles was the answer. Go figure. Answer to what? Their starter this year under Kelly was Vick. Why did matter who was down the depth chart? That's like Bills fans starting the season being "impatient" with Thad or Tuel. And as soon as Foles came in, there was nothing to be impatient about--he lit up the league. MAkes no sense. I pointed that out to the other guy and his reply is now, essentially, "Ok never minf that, just don't talk about Foles and EJ anymore". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Answer to what? Their starter this year under Kelly was Vick. Why did matter who was down the depth chart? That's like Bills fans starting the season being "impatient" with Thad or Tuel. And as soon as Foles came in, there was nothing to be impatient about--he lit up the league. MAkes no sense. I pointed that out to the other guy and his reply is now, essentially, "Ok never minf that, just don't talk about Foles and EJ anymore". My point, poorly made was that fans don't have patience with young QBs. When the Eagles came out 1-3 in their first 4 games, the Philly fans didn't believe that the answer to the team's QB problems was Nick Foles based on his rookie season. That started to change once Foles started playing but then he laid an egg against Dallas and the doubters came out of the woodwork again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) I love this game. The colts could've also drafted Alshon Jeffery in the second instead of spending both their 2nd and 3rd round picks on TEs. They also traded a 1st for Richardson and traded Hughes for Sheppard. They fell into Luck by sucking but lets not go praising what seems to be a very inept FO as if late. BTW if the Bills FO made those same three moves that the Colts have this board would literally explode. Luck and Pagano are the reason the colts are in the playoffs, getting lucky on TY Hilton is not. Edited January 5, 2014 by Hazed and Amuzed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobillsinytown Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 The Colts had the advantage of drafting one of the best QB prospects in recent memory. Luck's ability makes up for a lot of other drafting mistakes. The Bills don't have that type of guy at QB at the moment. The Colts haven't had to go through much of a learning curve with Luck, which makes the rest of the team building process a lot easier. The Bills had that same luxury once they brought in Jim Kelly. The point being is that, IMO, the QB position is by far the most important on any team. Get that one right, and building the rest of the team is a lot easier. It's not for lack of trying with the Bills. It's lack of ability on the part of the scouting department and management. Let's hope they got it right with EJ, because if they didn't, they'll be starting all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 The Colts had the advantage of drafting one of the best QB prospects in recent memory. Luck's ability makes up for a lot of other drafting mistakes. The Bills don't have that type of guy at QB at the moment. The Colts haven't had to go through much of a learning curve with Luck, which makes the rest of the team building process a lot easier. The Bills had that same luxury once they brought in Jim Kelly. The point being is that, IMO, the QB position is by far the most important on any team. Get that one right, and building the rest of the team is a lot easier. It's not for lack of trying with the Bills. It's lack of ability on the part of the scouting department and management. Let's hope they got it right with EJ, because if they didn't, they'll be starting all over again. It's also luck and circumstances. The Bills botched in passing Wilson and Kaepernick no doubt in my mind. I suppose they could have traded up from #3 (Dareus) had Carolina been willing to trade down. Then we could have drafted Cam Newton. But you have to be lucky (or intentionally bad) to even have an opportunity to draft Elway, Manning, Luck. There is truly an element of luck in getting a franchise QB, which is partly why most NFL teams don't have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 My point, poorly made was that fans don't have patience with young QBs. When the Eagles came out 1-3 in their first 4 games, the Philly fans didn't believe that the answer to the team's QB problems was Nick Foles based on his rookie season. That started to change once Foles started playing but then he laid an egg against Dallas and the doubters came out of the woodwork again. They were quickly satisfied. They many have worried for 3 or 4 days. I love this game. The colts could've also drafted Alshon Jeffery in the second instead of spending both their 2nd and 3rd round picks on TEs. They also traded a 1st for Richardson and traded Hughes for Sheppard. They fell into Luck by sucking but lets not go praising what seems to be a very inept FO as if late. BTW if the Bills FO made those same three moves that the Colts have this board would literally explode. Luck and Pagano are the reason the colts are in the playoffs, getting lucky on TY Hilton is not. Inept FO? If the Bills had a new HC, new GM and new QB who took them immediately to 2 playoff seasons, this place would explode with delight. And of course, when another team does better due diligence before making a pick that turns out well, it is simply due to "luck", whereas the Bills poor choices could never be predicted beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Inept FO? If the Bills had a new HC, new GM and new QB who took them immediately to 2 playoff seasons, this place would explode with delight. And of course, when another team does better due diligence before making a pick that turns out well, it is simply due to "luck", whereas the Bills poor choices could never be predicted beforehand. The opportunity to draft a player like Luck is an historical opportunity. A team has to be in the right place at the right time to draft a player like him. I don't think due diligence had anything to do with drafting Luck. It was a no-brainer. Former Colts HC Jim Caldwell was 24-8 with Peyton Manning and 2-14 without him. The only difference was the QB. Suddenly the organization that was good became horrible because of the loss of one player. There's a lot of legitimate reason to believe that the Colts success is mostly attributable to having the first pick overall in a draft which had a once-in-a-generation QB prospect. The Richardson trade, the Sheppard/Hughes trade… there's lots of reasons to believe that they have a very average football department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 The opportunity to draft a player like Luck is an historical opportunity. A team has to be in the right place at the right time to draft a player like him. I don't think due diligence had anything to do with drafting Luck. It was a no-brainer. Former Colts HC Jim Caldwell was 24-8 with Peyton Manning and 2-14 without him. The only difference was the QB. Suddenly the organization that was good became horrible because of the loss of one player. There's a lot of legitimate reason to believe that the Colts success is mostly attributable to having the first pick overall in a draft which had a once-in-a-generation QB prospect. The Richardson trade, the Sheppard/Hughes trade… there's lots of reasons to believe that they have a very average football department. The opportunity to draft a player like Luck is an historical opportunity. A team has to be in the right place at the right time to draft a player like him. I don't think due diligence had anything to do with drafting Luck. It was a no-brainer. Former Colts HC Jim Caldwell was 24-8 with Peyton Manning and 2-14 without him. The only difference was the QB. Suddenly the organization that was good became horrible because of the loss of one player. There's a lot of legitimate reason to believe that the Colts success is mostly attributable to having the first pick overall in a draft which had a once-in-a-generation QB prospect. The Richardson trade, the Sheppard/Hughes trade… there's lots of reasons to believe that they have a very average football department. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 I love this game. The colts could've also drafted Alshon Jeffery in the second instead of spending both their 2nd and 3rd round picks on TEs. They also traded a 1st for Richardson and traded Hughes for Sheppard. They fell into Luck by sucking but lets not go praising what seems to be a very inept FO as if late. BTW if the Bills FO made those same three moves that the Colts have this board would literally explode. Luck and Pagano are the reason the colts are in the playoffs, getting lucky on TY Hilton is not. The Colts are but 1 of 31 teams that have made the playoffs and have been more competitive than the bills over the last 14 years. Yes, every single other team in the NFL has had more success, at a given point in time, than the bills have over the last 14 years. It has absolutely nothing to do with luck and everything to do with poor scouting, poor coaching and poor managing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Don't forget the panic Losman pick and trading up for the incomparable John McCargo. Yeah Mccargo pick is still a complete enigma. Lost in the losman years but a stupid move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 The opportunity to draft a player like Luck is an historical opportunity. A team has to be in the right place at the right time to draft a player like him. I don't think due diligence had anything to do with drafting Luck. It was a no-brainer. Former Colts HC Jim Caldwell was 24-8 with Peyton Manning and 2-14 without him. The only difference was the QB. Suddenly the organization that was good became horrible because of the loss of one player. There's a lot of legitimate reason to believe that the Colts success is mostly attributable to having the first pick overall in a draft which had a once-in-a-generation QB prospect. The Richardson trade, the Sheppard/Hughes trade… there's lots of reasons to believe that they have a very average football department. We aren't talking about the Luck pick. We are talking about TY vs TJ. The poster called it lucky. As for the Luck pick, you can thank Polian for that. He refused to draft a legitimate replacement for Manning or provide a competent backup. Then they kept sending Painter out there, knowing Manning was never going to play for them again, and knowing Luck would be their next QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I bet the Colts, Eagles and Seahawks are not looking back in hindsight and asking "why did we pick Hilton/Foles/Wilson", or "why didn't we pick TJ Graham?". Ouch .. That hurts. Every draft though there is a head scratcher at least they did not go after him earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 We aren't talking about the Luck pick. We are talking about TY vs TJ. The poster called it lucky. As for the Luck pick, you can thank Polian for that. He refused to draft a legitimate replacement for Manning or provide a competent backup. Then they kept sending Painter out there, knowing Manning was never going to play for them again, and knowing Luck would be their next QB. Have you looked at TE Colts draft picks over the last 2 years? Other than Luck, Fleener and Hilton it's pretty bad. Couple that in with a couple of horrendous trades and is say that IMO the Hilton pick was an aberration for their front office. Again, Luck and Pagano are the reasons this team is any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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