Walmart February Sales Disaster

[Magox]

Horseshit, it's absolutely punative because the minimum wage doesn't index to profits. Furthermore, the profits of one business are not uniform to those of all other businesses. While some busineeses are reaping a windfall, others are suffering, and even failing. Whose profit margins do you propose we index the minimum wage to? Walmarts? Toys R' Us? The salvation Army? The mom and pop restaurant down the street?

 

That is not punitive.....Do you understand what that word means?

• Inflicting or intended as punishment.
  
• (of a tax or other charge) Extremely high.
  

Well, the purpose of raising the wage isn't meant to inflict damage, it is to increase the living wage relative to profit growth and inflation.

 

So that leaves #2, is it "extremely high" ? ya, I'm gonna go with no.

 

As profits and inflation rises, so do wages. So again, your position is illogical.

 

Also, I guess you haven't been paying attention to what has been being said in this thread. What I said earlier was

 

 

Maybe. Certainly there are a number of corporations that can afford a $2 increase in minimum wages. On the flip side, I'm sure there are a number of small mom and pop businesses that are barely getting by with where wages are today. There would need to be extensive analysis from a truly non partisan study group on this issue. Not so much on the Fortune 500 companies but on small business

 

and

 

Yes, really. There is a huge disconnect with the larger American corporations and small businesses. Corporations are doing great, they've been able to benefit off of globalization from cutting costs to enjoying the benefits of more global customers, whereas small businesses are hurt more from added regulations to a weak domestic economy. So yes, it is something that there needs to be more analysis to see if it would have adverse impacts. The question of "morality" should never be used in creating economic policy. It's not a variable that can be used to help determine effective policy. It discounts economic logic and in many cases what is done with good intention in the name of "fairness" or "morality" has the opposite intended outcome. Look at the health insurance law from the president, that is a perfect test case. It is going to be an unmitigated disaster. You know how many people are being dropped by their employers health insurance group plan because of it? A LOT

 

Many businesses would rather pay the fine and add extra compensation to their employers to replace their health insurance because they know that the added compensation won't increase at the rate of the premiums. So if there are going to be less people in employer group risk pools, what do you think that will do to premiums?

 

What I'm saying is that I'm not opposed to raising the minimum wage, what I'm saying is that there needs to be honest studies on small business and see what impacts t could have. If it shutters or causes less employment in these small businesses then obviously that's not the route to go.

 

and

 

That's pretty much it. The concepts of "fairness" and "morality" should not play any role in economic policy. What it does is take away all logic and substitutes it with one entities perception of fairness. That's simply illogical.

 

That's why I say if there are extensive studies done from honest brokers, and the conclusion is that all in all there are more economic benefits for the economy, then I could be all in for that. Probably the best solution is to have one set of rules for certain types of corporations and another set of rules for small business. Of course I realize that people will circumvent the system, but I would say this general concept should be considered.

 

I understand, you are a purist, which to be honest with you, there is a part of me that respects that and another part that tells me that purists are rigid and intolerant by nature. So the idea of keeping a static minimum wage is completely and utterly absurd which belies any sort of logical thinking that from my view could only be shared with the opinion of either an extreme ideologue or a complete dumb ass. I'm guessing you aren't a dumb ass.

[Azalin]

At some point the min. wage needs to be raised. It was $1.00 per hour when I was a teenager. Would that wage make any sense today? Does $9.00 make sense? I don't know, maybe it should only be raised $0.25 to $0.50 per hour to keep up with inflation.

you may be right.....although I'm not convinced that we actually need a minimum wage, but that's a whole other topic and it's not really the point of what I was saying.

 

I believe that the responsibility for obtaining supplemental income belongs squarely with the person who is underemployed. most people I know have had to work 2 or 3 jobs at one time or another.....it sucks, but you do what you need to do. what ever happened to the belief that if you have seven children and work as a short order cook for 35 hours a week, you're an idiot for having seven children and never learning any skills more practical than grilling burgers?

[birdog1960]

Not even close. I'm talking about optimizing social program spending by comparing the external cost to tax payers in the form of vandalism, crime, squalor and the savings of a base case of no social programs. Minimizing the externalities caused by individuals who refuse to live within their means.

 

You assume that either businesses or tax payers need to pay for these individuals when there is no such obligation. I believe people will shape up when the cost of !@#$ing up gets too high.

kinda figured that's where you were going. while i envision something much less than a utopia by ensuring basic needs, you're envisioning something pretty close to a dystopia. would you really want to live in such a country? sounds a lot like the current 3rd world...would the costs of martial law be calculated in?

[Fan in San Diego]

you may be right.....although I'm not convinced that we actually need a minimum wage, but that's a whole other topic and it's not really the point of what I was saying.

 

I believe that the responsibility for obtaining supplemental income belongs squarely with the person who is underemployed. most people I know have had to work 2 or 3 jobs at one time or another.....it sucks, but you do what you need to do. what ever happened to the belief that if you have seven children and work as a short order cook for 35 hours a week, you're an idiot for having seven children and never learning any skills more practical than grilling burgers?

 

I agree, most people use Walmart jobs as a temporary thing while going to school or some other education situation to get a better paying job. Those who stay at Walmart as a career I assume are trying to become managers and get higher pay that way. But I am OK with the min. wage being tied to some cost of living indicator. What index do larger employers use when they have a COLA system built into the pay packages? Maybe that's the index to adjust min. wage.

[boyst]

This thread is quite amazing, I am learning a lot about everyone. However, I really wonder if the basic idea of Walmart is still remembered? It was a place that the housewife's of America could get a good job with a stable company to help bring in money. Walton went to the outskirts of podunk, turned left at the stop sign and found back road towns to make his company. Now, when I go on Saturday nights I no longer see housewives. I see teenagers and senior citizens working their. The same need is there as was for the housewife, a stable job and good job with dependable income. We need Walmart whether we like it or not.

[We Come In Peace]

Ah yes, the self righteous maven with all the answers to the innumerable inequities in life pontificates loudly and proudly for all to see and hear. Oh how brave thou art to so nobly stand up for those you perceive as being trapped in poverty for the sole reason that the minimum wage isn't $25 an hour this year and going up to $30 an hour next.

 

And yes your assholiness I was born into a poor working class family - unlike you who was born with a silver cervical spoon in your mouth.

:lol:

 

I hate you for making me laugh at that. (and love you... but only as a friend)