"the other playoff" - playing for draft position

[Bronc24]

I didn't say that Chan Gailey = Andy Reid, what I did say is that coaches come from obscurity and do well and some come from prominant backgrounds and fail. ALL coaches were obscure or had ample growing pains (Bill Belicheat in Cleveland). Then out of no where they can be good, because their scheme has been bought into, they have the talent together, and they are putting it all together. The ball can move under Chan, and now that the D has their act together, perhaps we can win more often than not next year. Unfortunetly that's where we are, next year is what we're looking at. I'm saying, tearing it all down and starting new will not solve anything.

 

Go ahead and point toward some of the RECENT success from coaches starting in their first year. Then look at the entire history of the NFL and I'll bet you see that more often than not, first and second year coaches have growing pains rather than making the playoffs. There is a lot to be said about continuity.

 

OK...I will refrain from referring to the Harbaughs / Pagano-Arians / Tomlin's of the NFL. Chan is not a first or second year coach, as you state. He is a 3rd year coach who makes a multitude of blunders on game day and has not won more than 6 games in a season here. Again, why would we want to continue that?

[metzelaars_lives]

Well done. The difference of 1 pick could be the difference between McKelvin and Patrick Willis....or Roethlisberger and Lee Evans (2 picks apart). So each loss is vitally important.

 

The neat thing is the strength of schedule tiebreaker should favor the Bills in the first round.

 

McKelvin and Willis were not in the same draft but I understand your point nonetheless.

[HamSandwhich]

OK...I will refrain from referring to the Harbaughs / Pagano-Arians / Tomlin's of the NFL. Chan is not a first or second year coach, as you state. He is a 3rd year coach who makes a multitude of blunders on game day and has not won more than 6 games in a season here. Again, why would we want to continue that?

 

Because you're assuming that's what's going to happen in the future. You can't know that, and his system is good enough to win with the players we have IMO. Great D which has finally come together and an offense that we've seen can move the ball. Upgrade at QB for the future, and we're set. Lets not tear it all down as I said. Back to the heart of the matter, what does 5 picks better gaurentee you?

 

McKelvin and Willis were not in the same draft but I understand your point nonetheless.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of picks that were after McKelvin that turned out to be really good NFL players also.

[section122]

I'm all for winning out, just as the OP qualifies that he is the same. No reason to hate on him for looking at the scenarios. I thought it was interesting, thanks for posting.

Thanks. As Ryan will attest I have been for winning out that doesn't mean you can't look and see what may happen.

 

All week long I realize that it is better for the bills to lose. You know what happens when I wake up Sunday? I want the bills to win.

 

Everyone wants the bills to win ham. It is just a matter of thinking long term or short term as others have pointed out. Getting a better pick doesn't guarantee anything but it does increase the pool of players you can pick from thereby increasing your chances. This is unarguable.

[HamSandwhich]

Thanks. As Ryan will attest I have been for winning out that doesn't mean you can't look and see what may happen.

 

All week long I realize that it is better for the bills to lose. You know what happens when I wake up Sunday? I want the bills to win.

 

Everyone wants the bills to win ham. It is just a matter of thinking long term or short term as others have pointed out. Getting a better pick doesn't guarantee anything but it does increase the pool of players you can pick from thereby increasing your chances. This is unarguable.

 

The mathematics of having more players to pick from if you get a higher pick, I agree is unarguable. However, what is arguable is how much better a 3rd pick as compared to a 7th pick equated to a team or franchise turning it around. There are sooo many different variables that go into it and the difference, I can say with almost complete certainty (without actually looking up the facts somehow) is neglidgeable. That all CAN be argued.

 

Now, if you're truly waking up thinking you want to Bills to win, and you're just doing this to look at what COULD happen if they lose out, there is no problem. However, I would venture to say, that some in this thread, just hope the Bills lose out and that's all. I'm pretty sure at least one of these guys in this thread, going back and forth with me, have actually said as much. To me that's not being a fan, I dont know what it is, but it's not a fan to me.

 

Now that's my opinion and how much weight you give it, its how credible you think I am and how much of your happiness is affected by my statement. It is what it is in my mind.

[JPS]

McKelvin and Willis were not in the same draft but I understand your point nonetheless.

Memory is fading. Yeah, I guess we took Marshawn with the 11th pick that year. McKelvin was taken 11th, 1 pick after Mayo. I wonder who we are going to take with the 11th pick this year? Next year?

[snafu]

If you're only looking at the draft to make the team team better, then losing out is probably a better way to go, although they still need to make a good pick wherever they are. But I think they also need to re sign their free agents and attract new free agents to upgrade talent. They can't just get it in the draft. They also need to get a better head coach. The more games the Bills win will make it more likely to (1) re sign their free agents (2) sign new free agents and (3) get a better head coach.

[Maury Ballstein]

to simplify my take in playoff contention = win not in playoff contention = wins don't mean much, season's already shot

 

root on if you want....i go the disgusted with chan/fitz/aaron williams route. clean this house and draft that qb.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Ryan L Billz

[snafu]

to simplify my take in playoff contention = win not in playoff contention = wins don't mean much, season's already shot

 

root on if you want....i go the disgusted with chan/fitz/aaron williams route. clean this house and draft that qb.

 

I think that if you get rid of Chan and Fitz both then you it will take another couple years to get to the playoffs. You won't care about too many games for the next couple years. Seems to me that this team wins in spite of whatever Chan does to prevent them, while Fitz only throws a couple games away per year. And Fitz only throws so much because of Chan.

[section122]

I have to imagine most have jumped on the lose out train at this point, either to see Chan fired, improve draft stock, or both here are the scenarios for this week. Currently the Bills are drafting 8th with the potential to move all the way up to 3 with some insane breaks. They have been locked out of pick 1 and 2.

 

Week 16 who to root for:

Lions over Falcons (would push the Lions behind the Bills)

Dolphins over Bills (Bills could fall as far as pick 12 with a win)

Raiders over Panthers (this wouldn't move the Bills ahead of the Raiders but give them a chance to in week 17)

Eagles over Redskins (unfortunately not a chance for this one)

Chargers over Jets (very well could happen)

Browns over Broncos (not very likely)

 

So there it is. This is who to root for so the Bills can finally (maybe) find their qb of the future.

Edited December 18, 2012 by section122

[Bronc24]

I think that if you get rid of Chan and Fitz both then you it will take another couple years to get to the playoffs. You won't care about too many games for the next couple years. Seems to me that this team wins in spite of whatever Chan does to prevent them, while Fitz only throws a couple games away per year. And Fitz only throws so much because of Chan.

 

Yet if you keep them, you will never see the playoffs. Not what I'd call a Catch 22.

[section122]

Yet if you keep them, you will never see the playoffs. Not what I'd call a Catch 22.

Yeah I don't like the idea of blowing everything up but I have lost any confidence in Chan to right this ship. I want a HC in the HC position not a glorified OC.

[Bronc24]

Yeah I don't like the idea of blowing everything up but I have lost any confidence in Chan to right this ship. I want a HC in the HC position not a glorified OC.

 

Just have to hope they act accordingly and get some young coaching talent in here that actually appear to give a crap.

[section122]

Just have to hope they act accordingly and get some young coaching talent in here that actually appear to give a crap.

This is my biggest beef with Gailey. He lacks passion on the sideline. I don't need a blowhard but I need someone who will call the refs when they screw up and get a handle on both sides of the ball. Defensive players on this team aren't accountable to the HC! That is crazy to me!

[Maury Ballstein]

feel like the billy madison speech is applicable here in regards to Chan/Fitz/Wannygate

 

"everyone is this room is now dumber for sitting thru 3 years of this babbling incoherent nonsense"

[section122]

Mods could we perhaps merge this thread with the Bills could draft #3 thread?

[swnybillsfan]

This is my biggest beef with Gailey. He lacks passion on the sideline. I don't need a blowhard but I need someone who will call the refs when they screw up and get a handle on both sides of the ball. Defensive players on this team aren't accountable to the HC! That is crazy to me!

i agree with this. and even in his post game pc's there is no fire. not that i need the man to yell and scream and throw furniture, but he sounds so tired and defeated, i really feel bad for the man.

[jtewy]

What is the website that keeps track of all the opponent's winning percentage? I check it every year, but can't find it. I think it was on a fan site for Green Bay or New England.

 

It's awesome because each week it compiles all the teams' strength of schedule, so when we're looking at draft position, we can just look at that and know where we're at. Does anyone know what site I'm talking about?

[section122]

What is the website that keeps track of all the opponent's winning percentage? I check it every year, but can't find it. I think it was on a fan site for Green Bay or New England.

 

It's awesome because each week it compiles all the teams' strength of schedule, so when we're looking at draft position, we can just look at that and know where we're at. Does anyone know what site I'm talking about?

I don't but this link has it and they update it every Tuesday including s.o.s. just click on draft order.

[Orton's Arm]

Won't give it a break, you're not a fan by the very nature of the word. Fans root for teams to win, not lose. That's it and thats all. Loser mentality. So we lose 3 games in a row, move up 3 or 4 picks. You really think that matters enough in a crapshoot that is the draft? Cmon, you're smarter than that.

 

Or, we win 3 games in a row, build on someting for next year and go out on a positive.

 

Go ahead though, continue on with your loser mentality. I don't take shots against any type of "fan", except for this type, which I guess is not taking any shots at a fan at all, because you're not a fan.

 

 

 

Its also laughble that you say THE fans, as in the royal "WE THE FANS" as if everyone that is a FAN sees it your way. Sad.

 

 

 

See, therein lies your problem. We rince and repeat by firing this regime after 3 years, just like the regime before them and before them etc etc and so on and so on.

 

So, what makes you think we're going to be successful this time after 3 years? No, the prudent and smart thing would seem to be to keep the current regime, maybe tweak a coach or two and continue on. There is some improvement in areas and disrupting the continuity will just magnify our problems.

 

Ah, the old "you are not a fan if you want the team to lose out for better draft position" argument. I see that very few posts were made in this thread before that argument first appeared!

 

The Colts went 1-15 in 1997; thereby allowing them to take Peyton Manning first overall in 1998. If "true" Colts fans could redo 1997, would they have wanted the Colts to go, say, 5-11 or 6-10? Would those extra few wins help avoid the "loser mentality" you've warned us against?

 

The same thing happened more recently, when the Colts went 1-15 to be able to take Andrew Luck. Would they have been better off going 5-11 and avoiding the "loser mentality"?

 

Nine of the last ten Super Bowl winners have had franchise quarterbacks. The Bills haven't had a franchise quarterback since Kelly hung up his cleats. Over the last decade, there have been multiple drafts in which the best and most promising QB prospects have been off the board before the Bills' first pick.