Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) Don't get defensive because the guy in your avatar has everyone talking about needing a qb..............."it is what it is" as they say..........the bearded 7th rounder from Harvard needs to prove himself to all. I love all these posts how QB's drafted after 2nd round always fail......but we are just fine with a 7th rounder with a 13-40ish career record......this post has merit due to that fact..............we are all pulling for him..........but all have logical doubts as well Ryan, you seem to know something about football and to make good points sometimes, and your good points would show better if you could get over the "draft position = destiny" argument and the thought that W-L record is a suitable QB metric. VY's draft position and college wins didn't help him once he came to the NFL and his team's wins didn't help him once he moved to a different team. And Tom Brady's draft position in the 7th round doesn't hurt him in the NFL. Most 7 round QBs don't stay in the league, let alone build better stats and stay longer than QBs who were drafted well ahead of him. QB who stay in the league have shown something, regardless of where they were drafted. You may have logical doubts about Fitz, it's totally reasonable based upon his play....just as it's reasonable to have doubts about any QB who hasn't been consistent in his career and who has made too many mistakes (INTs) last year, but seriously - why keep coughing up that tired old crap about Fitz's college and draft position and the W-L record of the bad TEAMS he's played on? It doesn't prove anything about his NFL caliber. Fitz has shown he's a capable mid-rank NFL starter. There are plenty of QB from "name" college programs who drafted higher who haven't done as well. Quiz question for you: Who are Frye, Walter, Green, Orton, Lefors, Orlovsky, McPherson, Anderson, Kilian, and Cassel? It's totally reasonable to want the Bills to have a top-tier QB rather than a capable mid-rank NFL starter, and to doubt whether Fitz can become the former from the latter, and you don't have to go all repetitively rabid about silly stuff like draft position and college affiliation to make those points This is a good conversation. Up until now, I was happy with Nix not using a pick on a QB. There were bigger holes to fill. But I really hope we take a QB in 2013. I like Fitz and he's better than some Bills QBs in recent memory. But he's no Jim Kelly and not in the Top Ten of the NFL today. I think the rest of the roster is strong enough now that QB becomes a draft weekend priority - and I hope Nix sees it the same way. This. Edited August 30, 2012 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Agreed..See the same that I posted in another thread... Year: QBs picked before Bills Pick : QBs picked after Bills pick (in 1st Round) 2012: Luck, Griffin Tannehill | Weeden 2011: Newton | Locker, Gabbert, Ponder 2010: Bradford, | Tebow 2009: Stafford, Sanchez | Freeman 2008: Ryan | Flacco 2007: Russell | Brady Quinn 2006: Young | Leinart, Cutler 2005: Smith | Rodgers, Campbell 2004: Manning, Rivers, Rothelisberger, | Losman I will stop here... The bottom line is the QBs that have been picked after the Bills pick in the 1st round have all been crap except for Flacco, Rodgers and Cutler...We definitely should have picked up Cutler when we had the chance, but that is the year Marv and Dick blew it up.. Of course, the situation was also that the Bills still hadn't given Losman a decent chance to start. The same with Rodgers. Rest of those years, the QBs that are franchise QBs in Manning, Rivers, Rothelisberger, Ryan, Stafford and Newton were all long gone. Remember these players were also drafted in an era where besides doling out many draft picks, the team also had to sign them to 30-50M guaranteed contracts....The Bills were in no position to do that. Good post, Ganesh. I kinda dispute the "QB picked after us have all been crap except Flacco, Rodgers, and Cutler. I think Freeman is a very good QB, and Campbell is a solid QB, not crap. And of course, the jury is still out on Weedon, Locker, and Ponder. A point worth looking at is "what about the quality of the QB picked in the 1st round before the Bills picked? Leaving aside 2011 and 2012, couldn't you say "except for Stafford, Ryan, and that terrific 2004 draft class, all the QB picked ahead of us have all been crap" just as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mob16151 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Given Philadelphia history of QBs who cant do anything outside of Philadelphia's offense---thanks but not thanks. Yea But Foles is bigger, and has better arm strength, and a quicker release then,Kolb and company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 It sounds like you just have this preconcieved notion that Smith is a runner first, which is wrong. The guy is a pocket passer with excepent arm strength. He's certainly not a wildcat qb or wr prospect. Frankly, it seems that you're stereotyping the black qb here, which couldnt be further from the truth. If Pachall is your guy thats fine, but stereotypical blanket statements likethe ones you've used just make you look bad. No I've watched him play in that system. I didn't say anything about Logan Thomas bc he's gona be a Pocket passer Geno Smith is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Ryan, you seem to know something about football and to make good points sometimes, and your good points would show better if you could get over the "draft position = destiny" argument and the thought that W-L record is a suitable QB metric. VY's draft position and college wins didn't help him once he came to the NFL and his team's wins didn't help him once he moved to a different team. And Tom Brady's draft position in the 7th round doesn't hurt him in the NFL. Most 7 round QBs don't stay in the league, let alone build better stats and stay longer than QBs who were drafted well ahead of him. QB who stay in the league have shown something, regardless of where they were drafted. You may have logical doubts about Fitz, it's totally reasonable based upon his play....just as it's reasonable to have doubts about any QB who hasn't been consistent in his career and who has made too many mistakes (INTs) last year, but seriously - why keep coughing up that tired old crap about Fitz's college This.and draft position and the W-L record of the bad TEAMS he's played on? It doesn't prove anything about his NFL caliber. Fitz has shown he's a capable mid-rank NFL starter. There are plenty of QB from "name" college programs who drafted higher who haven't done as well. Quiz question for you: Who are Frye, Walter, Green, Orton, Lefors, Orlovsky, McPherson, Anderson, Kilian, and Cassel? It's totally reasonable to want the Bills to have a top-tier QB rather than a capable mid-rank NFL starter, and to doubt whether Fitz can become the former from the latter, and you don't have to go all repetitively rabid about silly stuff like draft position and college affiliation to make those points I was trying to make a logical point and yes i understand I am at the forefront of Fitz doubters which some disagree with(it gets old for me also, but I cannot stand the apologists who think hes amazing and should not be doubted) . I could care less about draft position but when others and myself talk about drafting qb's like Cousins, Mallett, even Colt Mccoy(i stand alone on this guy) everyone raves about how qb's drafted after the 2nd round are a lottery ticket and most are a terrible waste of time. IMO draft position is irrelevant look at Stevie and Brady for god sakes. For your names I see Charlie Frye, Andrew Walter, Kyle Orton, Dan Levevre etc......Whats the answer to the riddle though? Who are they ? Scrubby Qb's drafted in 2nd 3rd round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I was trying to make a logical point and yes i understand I am at the forefront of Fitz doubters which some disagree with(it gets old for me also, but I cannot stand the apologists who think hes amazing and should not be doubted) . I could care less about draft position but when others and myself talk about drafting qb's like Cousins, Mallett, even Colt Mccoy(i stand alone on this guy) everyone raves about how qb's drafted after the 2nd round are a lottery ticket and most are a terrible waste of time. IMO draft position is irrelevant look at Stevie and Brady for god sakes. For your names I see Charlie Frye, Andrew Walter, Kyle Orton, Dan Levevre etc......Whats the answer to the riddle though? Who are they ? Scrubby Qb's drafted in 2nd 3rd round? I think that you and I may have similar perspectives when it comes to Fitz. Where we may disagree is the part about draft position. Sure, Tom Brady was drafted in the sixth round. But that was more than ten years ago. Since then, how many franchise QBs have been drafted in round 3 or later, or have been signed as UDFAs? I am aware of only one: Matt Schaub. Even if you want to talk about franchise QBs from round 2, you have Drew Brees (drafted more than ten years ago), and not much else. If I'm forgetting someone, let me know. Even if you look at round 1 QBs, those who turned out to be franchise have generally been off the board by the time the Bills have picked. I genuinely think that if the Bills are going to get the QB situation squared away, they're probably going to need to use a first round draft pick. And they're probably going to need to trade up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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