Starting Cornerbacks

[3rdand12]

If McGee can go, we should steal a 3rd fom Detroit for McKelvin.

well if they are doped up and drunk as usual we might get a third round offer.

Mention that Leodis came off the field today puking from a hangover again and we have bargaining chips.

[Pneumonic]

Dude.....do you understand ANYTHING about the Patriots offense?

 

Who exactly do you think is going to cover their multiple TE sets?

 

It wont be linebackers......it will either be large corners or putting an extra safety on the field

If you had said safety instead of corner then I'd not have questioned you in the first place. But sticking a CB on Gronk or Hernandez is an exercise in futility.

 

Besides, if you have a 4 corners out there matched up against the Pats wideouts and TE's they'll simply run it down the Bills throats until they bring the big boys back in. Then they'll throw all over the place because they'll have a decided matchup advantage. Just like they did it all of last year.

[boyst]

Dude.....do you understand ANYTHING about the Patriots offense?

 

Who exactly do you think is going to cover their multiple TE sets?

 

It wont be linebackers......it will either be large corners or putting an extra safety on the field

Bryan Scott eats Gronkoskis for breakfast.

 

Put Searcy and Wilson changing in tempos (then again, I am not sure of this?)

 

Basically, I can see 2 CB's, 2 true LB's (ILB and SLB), Scott covering Gronk, Wilson playing to support the run and pop whoever crosses his face, and Byrd finding the ball.

 

Anyone have any ideas on playing zone this year against the Pats? The timing issue could be thrown off enough by the line that a zone might be better. My opinion is this would create a chance to get some picks more then straight main press, especially if we do not have to factor on Lloyd (I don't think we will).

 

If you had said safety instead of corner then I'd not have questioned you in the first place. But sticking a CB on Gronk or Hernandez is an exercise in futility.

 

Besides, if you have a 4 corners out there matched up against the Pats wideouts and TE's they'll simply run it down the Bills throats until they bring the big boys back in. Then they'll throw all over the place because they'll have a decided matchup advantage. Just like they did it all of last year.

With who?

 

Woodhead has hurt us before but look at our run defense the past few years. Those three fullback they have might be needed just to get past one game of our DL. Brandon Bolden? Shane Vareen? Lou Polite? Lions, Tigers, Bears...oh my!

 

Also, what line are they going to use to keep a ground game going? They have great weaknesses as of now on that line and the first thing they have to focus on is not letting Brady get killed.

[Pneumonic]

Bryan Scott eats Gronkoskis for breakfast.

 

Put Searcy and Wilson changing in tempos (then again, I am not sure of this?)

 

Basically, I can see 2 CB's, 2 true LB's (ILB and SLB), Scott covering Gronk, Wilson playing to support the run and pop whoever crosses his face, and Byrd finding the ball.

 

Anyone have any ideas on playing zone this year against the Pats? The timing issue could be thrown off enough by the line that a zone might be better. My opinion is this would create a chance to get some picks more then straight main press, especially if we do not have to factor on Lloyd (I don't think we will).

 

 

With who?

 

Woodhead has hurt us before but look at our run defense the past few years. Those three fullback they have might be needed just to get past one game of our DL. Brandon Bolden? Shane Vareen? Lou Polite? Lions, Tigers, Bears...oh my!

 

Also, what line are they going to use to keep a ground game going? They have great weaknesses as of now on that line and the first thing they have to focus on is not letting Brady get killed.

If a defense is running with 4 corners against a double TE set, then they could stick me in at RB and I'd go 15-150.

 

Gronk pretty much dominated every defender that lined-up against him last year. Even double teams struggled against this kid. You think Scott will fare any differently?

 

I think you are vastly underestimating Lloyd. It was just 2 seasons ago that Lloyd led the league in receiving yards (with Orton as his QB) and, by the sounds of it, Lloyd has been lighting it up in camp thus far.

 

I can't say how healthy the Pats OL will be come regular season so it's a tad pre-mature to speculate at this time. If/when they get their guys back I suspect they'll be their usual stellar self as far as pass blocking goes. They have a tremendous OL coach who has made steak out of hamburger on that OL for years now. And, perhaps the biggest strength of Brady is his ability to quickly process things and get rid of the ball very in very short order. The thought of having to cover Gronk, Hernandez, Welker, Lloyd and Gaffney will keep DC's up all night long.

[3rdand12]

Wannstadt runs the zone doesn't he? With his 4-3 base at least from all i can gather.

We now have physical corners in Williams/Gilmore who can play the run very well. I think we are much stronger against Patriots offense as played last season. But i dont recall anyone eating Gronkowski for breakfast last year, but i only watched the Bills games.

[bigc14120]

Aaron will be one of the top 10 best CB's in the NFL in 2012.

Well, I watched him last year, and so far, your view is nothing but wishful thinking. He got beat quite a bit last year, and does not have the McKelvin coverage ability. Don't get me wrong, his is a lot better than Florence, but I have not yet seen elite coverage skills. He still has to show that....so I classify your comment as wishful....

[boyst]

If a defense is running with 4 corners against a double TE set, then they could stick me in at RB and I'd go 15-150.

I don't disagree that there will be some yardage churned out by their RB's but it will be a non factor because our offense has shown the ability in the past to put up yardage and against their defense which has not got better - well. A potential non-factor.

 

Gronk pretty much dominated every defender that lined-up against him last year. Even double teams struggled against this kid. You think Scott will fare any differently?

He had over 100 yards last year against us, Welker had over 200 in the first game and we still won. His health has been an issue and there is no question about why Shiancoe was signed. I don't think one man can do it all, and I think we can beat them...twice.

 

I think you are vastly underestimating Lloyd. It was just 2 seasons ago that Lloyd led the league in receiving yards (with Orton as his QB) and, by the sounds of it, Lloyd has been lighting it up in camp thus far.

2 years ago in the NFL to a WR is 5 years to the rest of us. He is 31. I don't think he will be a slouch but look at this stats.

His rookie year he started only one game but played in 16, racked up 14 catches for 212 yards. We'll throw that out.

 

 

2004 Rattay Dorsey San Francisco 13 starts 13 games 43 catches 565 yards

2005 A. Smith, Dorsey, Rattay San Francisco 15 starts 16 games 48 catches 733 yards

2006 Brunnell / Campbell Washington 12 starts 15 games 23 catches 365 yards

2007 Ranel El, Todd Collins, Campbell Washington 01 start 8 games 2 catches 14 yards

2008 Orton Chicago 05 starts 11 games 26 catches 364 yards

2009 Orton Denver 1 start 2 games 8 catches 117 yards

2010 Orton Denver 11 starts, 16 games 77 catches 1,448 yards

2011 Tebow/Orton Denver 4 starts 4 games 19 catches 283 yards

Bradford St. Louis 10 starts 11 games 51 catches 683 yards

 

Averaged against above:

2012 Brady 11 games 11 starts 35 catches 532 yards.

 

Adj Average based on what I just played with HERE.

I figure him to play 16 games, 44 catches, 657 yards.

41 yards per games, 2 3/4 catches a game.

At this point he averages 2.18 catches, 12.4 games a year, 541.7 yards per year with 43.68 yards per game he plays in.

 

If you factor in drops, at least in my opinion, it makes up that he will have the best QB in his career to negate the stat. I could not find a stat on drops, and by the time I did I got too lazy. Lets say he just gets a target 6 times a game. If we stop half of those I believe we will be success.

 

I can't say how healthy the Pats OL will be come regular season so it's a tad pre-mature to speculate at this time. If/when they get their guys back I suspect they'll be their usual stellar self as far as pass blocking goes. They have a tremendous OL coach who has made steak out of hamburger on that OL for years now. And, perhaps the biggest strength of Brady is his ability to quickly process things and get rid of the ball very in very short order. The thought of having to cover Gronk, Hernandez, Welker, Lloyd and Gaffney will keep DC's up all night long.

I want to take some time before too long and look at the Stache against the pass.

Edited July 28, 2012 by jboyst62

[John from Riverside]

If you had said safety instead of corner then I'd not have questioned you in the first place. But sticking a CB on Gronk or Hernandez is an exercise in futility.

 

Besides, if you have a 4 corners out there matched up against the Pats wideouts and TE's they'll simply run it down the Bills throats until they bring the big boys back in. Then they'll throw all over the place because they'll have a decided matchup advantage. Just like they did it all of last year.

 

 

There are gonna be situations where either Gilmore or Williams is gonna get assignment on a TE.....especially if we run zone coverage in a 4-3 alignment

 

Stop looking at the sheer size of the patriot TE's and understand the coverage schemes......we cant run players off the field just because of what the Patriots do....then they are dictating to us instead of the other way around.....that is why you need safety sized corners (and yes....both Gilmore and Williams are undersized safties that can run like corners)

 

Scott probably draws a lot of coverage against Gronk......but Williams or Gilmore can take on Hernandez

[machine gun kelly]

I agree with previouS post on Scott. Mckelvin will most likely be cut unless McGee doesn't hold up with health issues. Both of them won't make the team. I'd rather see McGee make it. Mckelvin will never get better on his ball skills.

[Pneumonic]

He had over 100 yards last year against us, Welker had over 200 in the first game and we still won. His health has been an issue and there is no question about why Shiancoe was signed. I don't think one man can do it all, and I think we can beat them...twice.

 

2 years ago in the NFL to a WR is 5 years to the rest of us. He is 31. I don't think he will be a slouch but look at this stats.

By the sounds of it, Gronk is 100% healthy. I highly doubt Shiancoe's addition was because of health concerns for Gronk. More likely due to health concerns with their 3rd TE who hasn't practiced yet

 

Again, I think it is unwise to dismiss Lloyd so quickly. He's been tearing it up in Pats camp and he's 1 year removed from leading the league in receptions .... and that was without having a QB the calibre of Brady tossing him balls as well as not having teammates the calibre of Welker, Gronk and Hernandez around to take away the focus defenses placed on stopping Lloyd. I think the age thingy curtailing Lloyd's game is wishful thinking on your part.

 

Curious, since Fred Jackson is the same age as Lloyd, do you also call into question Freddie's effectiveness?

 

There are gonna be situations where either Gilmore or Williams is gonna get assignment on a TE.....especially if we run zone coverage in a 4-3 alignment

 

Stop looking at the sheer size of the patriot TE's and understand the coverage schemes......we cant run players off the field just because of what the Patriots do....then they are dictating to us instead of the other way around.....that is why you need safety sized corners (and yes....both Gilmore and Williams are undersized safties that can run like corners)

 

Scott probably draws a lot of coverage against Gronk......but Williams or Gilmore can take on Hernandez

The sheer size of the TE's, when coupled with their skillset, is why they are excelling as they are. You have to look at their size because that's what makes them a matchup nightmare.

 

Gronk is 6-7 and has a huge wingspan. Scott is 6-1 without the wingspan. This gives Gronk probably a foot reach advantage on someone like Scott. Even if Scott's good enough to stay with Gronk, a QB with laser accuracy such as Brady, will simply place the ball high enough where only Gronk can catch it. That's been their MO all of last year .... defenders had blanket coverage on Gronk but the kid comes down with the ball and then, if the defender is light in the britches, he drags them downfield an additional 10 or into the EZ before being tackled.

 

Scott would probably be better served trying to cover Hernandez .... he's only 6-3.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Pneumonic

[boyst]

By the sounds of it, Gronk is 100% healthy. I highly doubt Shiancoe's addition was because of health concerns for Gronk. More likely due to health concerns with their 3rd TE who hasn't practiced yet

 

Again, I think it is unwise to dismiss Lloyd so quickly. He's been tearing it up in Pats camp and he's 1 year removed from leading the league in receptions .... and that was without having a QB the calibre of Brady tossing him balls as well as not having teammates the calibre of Welker, Gronk and Hernandez around to take away the focus defenses placed on stopping Lloyd. I think the age thingy curtailing Lloyd's game is wishful thinking on your part. Curious, since Fred Jackson is the same age as Lloyd, do you also doubt Freddie's effectiveness?

Jackson did get injured this past year. So, yes, in a small way I doubt him. Lloyd has also shown to be much more of a liability with injuries and game play. His stats show inconsistencies, by the way he lead the league in yards not receptions. I can not imagine in any possible way him producing over 1,000 yards because of those teammates you mentioned. The Pats flourish based on their unique ability of having TE's play a major part of their offense and making teams adjust to that coverage. Having Lloyd as the big time factor makes them a lot like other teams and, of course, in my opinion, makes them weaker as a team.

[Pneumonic]

Jackson did get injured this past year. So, yes, in a small way I doubt him. Lloyd has also shown to be much more of a liability with injuries and game play. His stats show inconsistencies, by the way he lead the league in yards not receptions. I can not imagine in any possible way him producing over 1,000 yards because of those teammates you mentioned. The Pats flourish based on their unique ability of having TE's play a major part of their offense and making teams adjust to that coverage. Having Lloyd as the big time factor makes them a lot like other teams and, of course, in my opinion, makes them weaker as a team.

If Lloyd was struggling in camp then you might have a point regarding his age and diminishing skills. But that appears not to be the case.

 

Neither you nor I can predict a players health so I won't even bother guessing. As far as Lloyd's inconsistent play goes ...... they stem from the following names .... Kyle Orton, Tim Tebow, Sam Bradford, A.J. Feeley and Kellen Clemens. Now, enter Tom Brady.

 

I agree we aren't likely going to see Lloyd go for 100 catches and 1500 yards. There is simply not enough balls to go around for him to hit those numbers. However, the true value in his addition is what he brings to the table as far as "impact" plays are concerned. Those plays which end up in 1st downs or TD's. It is here where his addition is going to be most felt. Not just because his addition will surely provide for more big and impact plays that he makes but perhaps even moreso for what his addition will have on defensive coverages in the secondary ..... in so much as accounting for Lloyd's presence will open up opportunities for the likes of Gronk, Welker, and Hernandez to be even more effective than they were last year (whene they were almost uncoverable).

 

Looking at this, defenses had best be able to trot out a Giants NASCAR package that doesn't allow Brady time to drop back and setup because it's going to be a nightmare covering Gronk, Hernandez, Welker and Lloyd.