PDaDdy Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I think you mean Greg Jennings and you forgot Steve smith, Brandon Lloyd, and anquan Boldin And the Cowboys #1 Miles Austin. someone who can put up good numbers against darrelle revis. He had a great GAME against Reevis. Now if we just played the Jets every week at home we would be all set Just the truth man. I like SJ and we need to keep him but lets ground ourselves in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair GM Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 SJ13 is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) I think you mean Greg Jennings and you forgot Steve smith, Brandon Lloyd, and anquan Boldin I think you mean Greg Jennings and you forgot Steve smith, Brandon Lloyd, and anquan Boldin That's better. New England (welker) Miami (Marshall) Jets (Santonio Holmes) Pittsburgh (Wallace) Cincinnati (Green) Colts (Wayne (maybe close due to wayne's age) Titans (Kenny Britt) Texans (Andre Johnson) Chargers (Vincent Jackson) Chiefs (Bowe) ----- That's 10 so far in the AFC Cowboys (Bryant, Robinson (closer one)) Giants (Nicks, Cruz (kinda a stevie clone, but its not just a better team. He has better speed and maturity)) Eagles (DeSean Jackson) Packers (Greg Lewis) Lions (Calvin Johnson) Vikings (Harvin) Atlanta (Roddy White) Saints (Colston) Cardinals (Fitzgerald) ----- That's 19 teams. You can maybe debate 1 or 2. To test it ask yourself "would I trade Stevie, straight up, for that guy?" Or, even better, ask yourself "If Stevie gets traded to this team, will he be the #1 receiver?" To me, a #1 receiver is someone who can be counted upon (not just "able to") to get open against zone or man, make the big catch downfield or across the middle in the big situations, and makes the opponent want to double-team him even in today's wide-open passing game. Maybe someone you design your offense around because he's that good (welker). Stevie is not that. A #1 does not mean "best on the team." I dont think anyone would argue that Jacksonville has a #1 receiver. Edited March 5, 2012 by Dopey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsSD Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Translation: Okay Maddenboy, you got me. But I still wanna believe what I wanna believe. You wouldnt take Harvin, Jackson, or Britt straight up in trade? You think Stevie would instantly be the #1 receiver in Minnesota, Philly, Tennessee or Indy? Yes, I would not take Harvin, Jackson, or Britt straight up for Stevie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in Syracuse Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I see a lot of talk on here about Stevie not being a number 1WR, what is a number1 wideout then? I'm asking because I believe the term is relative and cannot be defined completely by one or more attribute. Is it size, speed or hands? Andre Reed was no bigger or faster than Johnson is. Reed also dropped a few from time to time and made mental errors in key spots(penalty in the SB anyone?) Is it maturity? Reed and Moulds made some bonehead moves in their days and were at times known to be disruptive in the locker rooms. I'm not saying Andre or Eric weren't #1 WRs just trying to figure out why Johnson isn't according to some. I think the #1 receiver is defined by the playbook. Every team has an a or b receiver that runs the a (#1) or b #2 route. They tend to be the first read in most plays. SJ knows these plays so bringing in a #1 and making SJ relearn the playbook as a b receiver makes no sense. They love Domald Jones as a b receiver. The c receiver is usually the speed guy, we have Clowney and Easley so we will see if we draft anyone else or pick up a FA but only if they are way better than what we have on the roster now and are not super expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Yes, I would not take Harvin, Jackson, or Britt straight up for Stevie. Let me add to this: or Santonio Holmes, or Wayne (maybe close due to wayne's age), or Cowboys Robinson or DeSean Jackson or Greg Lewis or Anquan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Let me add to this: or Santonio Holmes, or Wayne (maybe close due to wayne's age), or Cowboys Robinson or DeSean Jackson or Greg Lewis or Anquan. Fair enuf, sir. I think Greg Jennings (lewis) is the best of your bunch. And i'd take him over stevie. The rest of these have issues. Age, maturity, injuries, or just that they arent clearly better or worse than SJ so why bother? I compiled my list in response to "name 15 receivers BETTER THAN stevie," and not "name 15 #1 receivers." As far as whether stevie is a true #1 (most people differ on precise definition but there are some common denominators for all), and its kinda "i know it when i see it." So my second test about "would Stevie instantly be the #1 receiver on the teams?" instead of Holmes, Wayne, etc? I think not. Maybe over Anquan because he's definitely not a #1 by anybody's definition. Edited March 5, 2012 by maddenboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missthe kgun Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 New England (welker) Miami (Marshall) Jets (Santonio Holmes) Pittsburgh (Wallace) Cincinnati (Green) Colts (Wayne (maybe close due to wayne's age) Titans (Kenny Britt) Texans (Andre Johnson) Chargers (Vincent Jackson) Chiefs (Bowe) ----- That's 10 so far in the AFC Cowboys (Bryant, Robinson (closer one)) Giants (Nicks, Cruz (kinda a stevie clone, but its not just a better team. He has better speed and maturity)) Eagles (DeSean Jackson) Packers (Greg Lewis) Lions (Calvin Johnson) Vikings (Harvin) Atlanta (Roddy White) Saints (Colston) Cardinals (Fitzgerald) ----- That's 19 teams. You can maybe debate 1 or 2. To test it ask yourself "would I trade Stevie, straight up, for that guy?" Or, even better, ask yourself "If Stevie gets traded to this team, will he be the #1 receiver?" To me, a #1 receiver is someone who can be counted upon (not just "able to") to get open against zone or man, make the big catch downfield or across the middle in the big situations, and makes the opponent want to double-team him even in today's wide-open passing game. Maybe someone you design your offense around because he's that good (welker). Stevie is not that. A #1 does not mean "best on the team." I dont think anyone would argue that Jacksonville has a #1 receiver. Wayne is over the hill Santonio is locker room cancer Kenny Britt INCONSISTANT Marshall drop more than SJ and has less TDs the last 2 seasons VJ will soon be a Bill!!! Dez Bryant is Pacman Jr. Desean Jackson can't get paid by his own team, because he's a headcase And Percy is a slot/gadget player Answer to your question, NO I would not trade SJ straight up for those guys!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Wayne is over the hill Santonio is locker room cancer Kenny Britt INCONSISTANT Marshall drop more than SJ and has less TDs the last 2 seasons VJ will soon be a Bill!!! Dez Bryant is Pacman Jr. Desean Jackson can't get paid by his own team, because he's a headcase And Percy is a slot/gadget player Answer to your question, NO I would not trade SJ straight up for those guys!!! Respectfully disagree. I would trade SJ straight up for Britt, Bryant, Marshall and Vincent Jackson instantly. Harvin probably but he's just a more durable version of Roscoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I am not the biggest SJ fan, but its a good thing the we have him signed up. Now Buddy needs to find another quality receiver and a TE (or resign Chandler). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I don't believe that every team has a true, #1 Wide Receiver, despite claims to the contrary. When I think of a true, #1 receiver...I think of a player at the WR position that is 100% dependable, catches everything thrown their way and then some, is a game-changer and needs double coverage. A true franchise player. When I think of names, I think of Andre Reed, Jerry Rice, Chris Carter, Eric Moulds, Anquan Boldin, Terrell Owens (late San Fran and Dallas days), Calvin Johnson, etc. Put these guys anywhere on the field, and they are getting it done, and you can always count on them. Lee Evans, for example, was considered our "#1" for close to a decade. I never thought he fit the bill, as he was a very one dimensional player. Deep speed, he had it. Underneath routes, YAC, etc...no way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I don't believe that every team has a true, #1 Wide Receiver, despite claims to the contrary. When I think of a true, #1 receiver...I think of a player at the WR position that is 100% dependable, catches everything thrown their way and then some, is a game-changer and needs double coverage. A true franchise player. When I think of names, I think of Andre Reed, Jerry Rice, Chris Carter, Eric Moulds, Anquan Boldin, Terrell Owens (late San Fran and Dallas days), Calvin Johnson, etc. Put these guys anywhere on the field, and they are getting it done, and you can always count on them. Lee Evans, for example, was considered our "#1" for close to a decade. I never thought he fit the bill, as he was a very one dimensional player. Deep speed, he had it. Underneath routes, YAC, etc...no way. Dont you mean Larry Fitzgerald? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreReed83 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Wanna know what a number 1 WR is? He wears 13 for the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) No commentary on Welker getting the F tag? Welker's tag is slated for $9.4 million in 2012 I guess you can argue who is the better receiver .... Let's ask - Who is more important to their team - Stevie or Wes? Edited March 6, 2012 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Wanna know what a number 1 WR is? He wears 13 for the Bills. Now if he only had the stats compared to other pass catchers to prove it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 There shouldn't really be any question, Stevie Johnson has been the Bills #1 WR the last 2 seasons. But what's true here may not be the full story. Ocho Cinco was a #1 WR for the Bungles for years, but he couldn't even get on the field when he went to a better team that throws the ball nearly every down, a team that demanded he play within their offense, know what he was doing, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Now if he only had the stats compared to other pass catchers to prove it 2010: TD's Bowe 15 Greg Jennings, Calvin Johnson 12 Brandon Lloyd, Nicks, and Mike Williams 11 Roddy White, Mike Wallce, J. Maclin and Stevie 10 Only 6 recievers caught more TD's Rec. White 115 Wayne 111 S. Moss 93 Fitz 90 Andre Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Welker 86 Amendola 85 Colston 84 Stevie 82 #11 in the League Yds Getting tired of typing so, 1,073 #11 in the League 1st downs 61 tied for 4th in the league(only Wayne, B Lloyd and R. White had more) 1st down % Stevie 74.4% Only Brandon Lloyd(93.5%) and D Bowe(76.4%) have a higher % of the top 20 recievers(receptions) 2011 Td's 7 tied for 18th with the likes of Miles Austin, AJ Green,Nicks, to name a few. Rec 76 tied for 12th in the league Yd's 1,004 tied for 18th in the league 1st down 45 tied for 20th in the league 1st down % 59.2% Not so good here, but still close to 60% of passes for a 1st down. Over the last 2 seasons, I would argue that Stevie is a # 1. There are 32 teams x 5 receivers per team(160 recievers). Top 10 receiver?, Probably not, but definetly a # 1 on more than 1/2 the NFL teams. Don't forget how the injuries affected our offense last season and the lack of a true #2 meant teams paid more attention to Stevie. A #1 receiver? HELL YES!!! Edited March 6, 2012 by Dopey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 2010: TD's Bowe 15 Greg Jennings, Calvin Johnson 12 Brandon Lloyd, Nicks, and Mike Williams 11 Roddy White, Mike Wallce, J. Maclin and Stevie 10 Only 6 recievers caught more TD's Rec. White 115 Wayne 111 S. Moss 93 Fitz 90 Andre Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Welker 86 Amendola 85 Colston 84 Stevie 82 #11 in the League Yds Getting tired of typing so, 1,073 #11 in the League 1st downs 61 tied for 4th in the league(only Wayne, B Lloyd and R. White had more) 1st down % Stevie 74.4% Only Brandon Lloyd(93.5%) and D Bowe(76.4%) have a higher % of the top 20 recievers(receptions) 2011 Td's 7 tied for 18th with the likes of Miles Austin, AJ Green,Nicks, to name a few. Rec 76 tied for 12th in the league Yd's 1,004 tied for 18th in the league 1st down 45 tied for 20th in the league 1st down % 59.2% Not so good here, but still close to 60% of passes for a 1st down. Over the last 2 seasons, I would argue that Stevie is a # 1. There are 32 teams x 5 receivers per team(160 recievers). Top 10 receiver?, Probably not, but definetly a # 1 on more than 1/2 the NFL teams. Don't forget how the injuries affected our offense last season and the lack of a true #2 meant teams paid more attention to Stevie. A #1 receiver? HELL YES!!! I appreciate what you did and agree. But the "haters" will say statistics don't tell the whole story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) 2010: TD's Bowe 15 Greg Jennings, Calvin Johnson 12 Brandon Lloyd, Nicks, and Mike Williams 11 Roddy White, Mike Wallce, J. Maclin and Stevie 10 Only 6 recievers caught more TD's Rec. White 115 Wayne 111 S. Moss 93 Fitz 90 Andre Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Welker 86 Amendola 85 Colston 84 Stevie 82 #11 in the League Yds Getting tired of typing so, 1,073 #11 in the League 1st downs 61 tied for 4th in the league(only Wayne, B Lloyd and R. White had more) 1st down % Stevie 74.4% Only Brandon Lloyd(93.5%) and D Bowe(76.4%) have a higher % of the top 20 recievers(receptions) 2011 Td's 7 tied for 18th with the likes of Miles Austin, AJ Green,Nicks, to name a few. Rec 76 tied for 12th in the league Yd's 1,004 tied for 18th in the league 1st down 45 tied for 20th in the league 1st down % 59.2% Not so good here, but still close to 60% of passes for a 1st down. Over the last 2 seasons, I would argue that Stevie is a # 1. There are 32 teams x 5 receivers per team(160 recievers). Top 10 receiver?, Probably not, but definetly a # 1 on more than 1/2 the NFL teams. Don't forget how the injuries affected our offense last season and the lack of a true #2 meant teams paid more attention to Stevie. A #1 receiver? HELL YES!!! I always try to use the term pass catcher that way you don't exclude the TE's that are also better than SJ. Your stats eliminate the 5-6 TEs that are as good as or better from a production stand point. Miles Austin by the way who you compared SJ to got his 2011 stats in an injury filled 10 game season. Don't get me wrong SJ is by far the best we have and I am super glad we have him but get real. He barely cracks the top 20 in most PASS CATCHER categories that matter. Let's look at SJ the "pass catcher" 2011 Rec 19th 76 YDs 20th 1004 TDs 21st 7 1st 25th 45 Basically SJ averages bottom 3rd of all 32 team's number 1 "PASS CATCHERS" using those important categories. Today's NFL TEs are more WRs than they have ever been. Edited March 6, 2012 by PDaDdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 I always use the term pass catcher that way you don't exclude the TE's that are also better than SJ. Your stats eliminate the 6 TEs that are as good as or better from a production stand point. Not to mention your cherry picked 2011 stats removing TE's show that SJ is middle of the pack at best. Miles Austin by the way who you compared SJ to got his 2011 stats in an injury filled 10 game season. Don't get me wrong SJ is by far the best we have and I am super glad we have him but get real. He barely cracks the top 20 in most PASS CATCHER categories that matter. Really? TE's shouldn't be coupled in with wide receivers when you're talking about what it takes to be a WIDE RECEIVER. If we're just going to talk about positions and their stats just by a production standpoint than Chris Mohr is one of our best pass THROWERS with a QB rating of 118.7 in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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