A view on DC and Shanny

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Interesting look.

 

The caveat is that whenever a team is criticized on a national level, it's just more motivation for them to play better.

 

I still think the Bills win but regardless, it's an interesting read.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AvlsyTl1Jvy03qTWrdgGkbtDubYF?slug=lc-carpenter_mike_shanahan_redskins_qbs_donovan_mcnabb102511

[Doc]

Looks like those who said Shanahan being given complete control of personnel (again) would be a mistake were correct. Good thing he didn't want to sign here.

[Coach Tuesday]

Someone in another thread recently - and incorrectly - stated that Gailey is a "system coach" and doesn't tailor his scheme to his players. Obviously, this is 100% wrong - the exact opposite is true about Gailey. By contrast, Shanahan is the quintessential "system coach." He believes that he can coach up players to exceed their statistical averages by getting them to fit his scheme. As the article points out, at times that worked in Denver. Unfortunately for Shanny, his ego is so large that those successes actually hurt him in the end. He became convinced that his system is so genius that he can fit any QB or RB into it and they'll become All Pros. His hubris has cost him dearly in D.C., and it's fair to speculate whether an owner like Snyder has him on a short leash already.

 

Having said all of that, wouldn't it have been interesting if Shanny had come to Buffalo in 2010? He would've had a better QB to work with, and better running backs - along with an owner who would give him more time to build his roster.

 

Anyhow, I love Gailey, I'm glad it worked out the way it did.

[JohnC]

Looks like those who said Shanahan being given complete control of personnel (again) would be a mistake were correct. Good thing he didn't want to sign here.

 

Aren't you being a little premature on deeming Shanahan as a failure? In only his second year he has substantially turned over the roster. He has gotten rid of the high priced divas (such as Portis, Hanyneworth etc) and added a number of contributing mid-level free agents. When he took over the team it was at a very bloated cap level. In a very short time span he has shed a lot of the high priced and non-productive players and put the franchise in a very sound and flexible cap position.

 

The Skins simply don't have a franchise qb on their roster. They didn't reach to address that critical need in this past draft. They will in next year's draft or through free agency address that position. When MS took over he made it known to the very impatient and petulant owner that it was going to take 4-5 years to build a roster to become an upper echelon team. In two years he has done a lot to move this franchise away from the past short term approach to a more football (less marketing) type approach to building a winner.

 

Shanahan was never going to come to Buffalo under any circumstances for whatever amount of money Ralph would have offered him. Ralph and his business advisors run the franchise in a stifling way in which he would never accept. Dan Snyder is for a change allowing his HC and GM (Bruce Allen) to make all the football decisions. Only time will tell whether it will work out. It is very premature to make a judgment now. In another couple of years one can have a fairer take on whether the Shanahan hire was a good or bad hire.

Edited October 26, 2011 by JohnC

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Just as Gailey and Nix are evaluated every day on this forum, it's fair to do the same with Shanahan… particularly because of the rumors that the Bills contacted Shanny before hiring Gailey.

 

Both teams are in the 2nd year of their new regimes.

 

In Zorn's last year, the Redskins went 4-12. Last year they were 6-10. This year they are 3-3 but there is a sense that they are playing worse now than early on when they beat the Giants.

 

While it's premature to say Shanny is failing, it is fair to evaluate the job he's done so far.

 

I thought the article is very interesting if you read it. I think it's certainly valid criticism that he's botched the quarterback situation so far. There were lots of draftable quarterbacks in this year's draft.

 

Anyways, we get to see the 'skins firsthand this weekend so we'll know a lot more than we do now.

[Max997]

I along with a lot of football fans in Philly are glad to see the rest of the country finally seeing McNabb for what he really is instead of thinking he is or even was an elite QB

[JohnC]

Just as Gailey and Nix are evaluated every day on this forum, it's fair to do the same with Shanahan… particularly because of the rumors that the Bills contacted Shanny before hiring Gailey.

 

Both teams are in the 2nd year of their new regimes.

 

In Zorn's last year, the Redskins went 4-12. Last year they were 6-10. This year they are 3-3 but there is a sense that they are playing worse now than early on when they beat the Giants.

 

While it's premature to say Shanny is failing, it is fair to evaluate the job he's done so far.

 

I thought the article is very interesting if you read it. I think it's certainly valid criticism that he's botched the quarterback situation so far. There were lots of draftable quarterbacks in this year's draft.

 

Anyways, we get to see the 'skins firsthand this weekend so we'll know a lot more than we do now.

 

The most substative way to evaluate a HC very early in his tenure is to not take a quick snapshot view of his performance but to see how he has started a process that will change the course of a very long term flagging franchise. As did the Bills the Skins weren't interested in drafting an acceptable qb, they wanted to take a franchise qb who they felt that they can build a franchise around. When their first pick came up they didn't see that type of qb on the board. Instead,the Skins used their first pick on DE/OLB Kerrigan. So far he has been superb.

 

The Skins have taken a very different approach in drafting compared to their prior regimes. They got more picks instead of shedding picks. Under MS they got rid of the high priced free agents and signed a number of good value mid-level free agents. The football decisions are solely made by the football staff without the interference of the owner. What Mike S has done is dramatically make changes to the way the franchise operates and created a culture of accountability and workmanship instead of a star system.

 

If one is going to make an early judgment on the HC's performance I would be comfortable in saying that he has done an excellent job. Without a doubt he has turned around a systemically losing franchise into a franchise that is moving in the right direction. The issue isn't building a franchise into an 8-8 mediocre and middling team and then declare it is improving. The goal is to build a roster, virtually from scratch, so that it can compete for a championship. In my view, in relatively short order, he has transformed the way the franchise operates and in the not too distant future put the team in position to be a serious contending team.

[Doc]

Aren't you being a little premature on deeming Shanahan as a failure? In only his second year he has substantially turned over the roster. He has gotten rid of the high priced divas (such as Portis, Hanyneworth etc) and added a number of contributing mid-level free agents. When he took over the team it was at a very bloated cap level. In a very short time span he has shed a lot of the high priced and non-productive players and put the franchise in a very sound and flexible cap position.

 

The Skins simply don't have a franchise qb on their roster. They didn't reach to address that critical need in this past draft. They will in next year's draft or through free agency address that position. When MS took over he made it known to the very impatient and petulant owner that it was going to take 4-5 years to build a roster to become an upper echelon team. In two years he has done a lot to move this franchise away from the past short term approach to a more football (less marketing) type approach to building a winner.

 

Shanahan was never going to come to Buffalo under any circumstances for whatever amount of money Ralph would have offered him. Ralph and his business advisors run the franchise in a stifling way in which he would never accept. Dan Snyder is for a change allowing his HC and GM (Bruce Allen) to make all the football decisions. Only time will tell whether it will work out. It is very premature to make a judgment now. In another couple of years one can have a fairer take on whether the Shanahan hire was a good or bad hire.

Possibly, but I'll still stick with "no." Shanahan himself has said that he'll get 2 years to make his mark, or Danny will take over again. With the way things are looking, it will be another bad season in Washington. And it's mostly because Shanahan, in 2 off-seasons, has failed to get even a solid starting QB.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

The most substative way to evaluate a HC very early in his tenure is to not take a quick snapshot view of his performance but to see how he has started a process that will change the course of a very long term flagging franchise. As did the Bills the Skins weren't interested in drafting an acceptable qb, they wanted to take a franchise qb who they felt that they can build a franchise around. When their first pick came up they didn't see that type of qb on the board. Instead,the Skins used their first pick on DE/OLB Kerrigan. So far he has been superb.

 

The Skins have taken a very different approach in drafting compared to their prior regimes. They got more picks instead of shedding picks. Under MS they got rid of the high priced free agents and signed a number of good value mid-level free agents. The football decisions are solely made by the football staff without the interference of the owner. What Mike S has done is dramatically make changes to the way the franchise operates and created a culture of accountability and workmanship instead of a star system.

 

If one is going to make an early judgment on the HC's performance I would be comfortable in saying that he has done an excellent job. Without a doubt he has turned around a systemically losing franchise into a franchise that is moving in the right direction. The issue isn't building a franchise into an 8-8 mediocre and middling team and then declare it is improving. The goal is to build a roster, virtually from scratch, so that it can compete for a championship. In my view, in relatively short order, he has transformed the way the franchise operates and in the not too distant future put the team in position to be a serious contending team.

So bottom line you think Shanny's done a good job so far and I'm doubtful.

 

The McNabb decision was a complete failure. Then to allay his hurt feelings at being benched, they gave him an extension with guaranteed money before sending him off a few months later. I'm also not sure that the Grossman/Beck team is a good short term play for the 'skins.

 

Similar to the Buddy Nix thread, Shanny/Allen have to be judged on their whole body of work in DC. I think it's been a mixed bag but as I said earlier, we'll know a lot more about the Redskins after this week.

 

Their defense under Haslett looks good and if they can get the ole Shanny running game going, they'll be tough.

 

But quarterback is an unresolved issue.

 

 

I'd sure like to hear what the folks around DC have to say about the Redskins.

 

 

[JohnC]

So bottom line you think Shanny's done a good job so far and I'm doubtful.

 

The McNabb decision was a complete failure. Then to allay his hurt feelings at being benched, they gave him an extension with guaranteed money before sending him off a few months later. I'm also not sure that the Grossman/Beck team is a good short term play for the 'skins.

 

Similar to the Buddy Nix thread, Shanny/Allen have to be judged on their whole body of work in DC. I think it's been a mixed bag but as I said earlier, we'll know a lot more about the Redskins after this week.

 

Their defense under Haslett looks good and if they can get the ole Shanny running game going, they'll be tough.

 

But quarterback is an unresolved issue.

 

 

I'd sure like to hear what the folks around DC have to say about the Redskins.

 

The McNabb acquisition from the Eagles was always considered as a bridge type of deal until they got their own long term franchise qb. It didn't take Shanahan and his staff too long to realize that it was a mistake and was unsalvageable. He ended up being abruptly benched and then traded. I give MS credit for recognizing his mistake and then rather quickly acting on correcting the problem. McNabb's so-call contract extension was in reality a very hollow contract with little actual committed money. As you already noted the Grossman/Beck tandem is not considered a long-term answer for the Skins. Without a doubt the long-term franchise qb is currently not on the roster.

 

As with the Nix/Gailey assessment it is still early to make a definitive judgment on how each organization is performing. Both franchises are under new leadership and both franchises have taken dramatically different approaches to managing their teams compared to the prior regimes.

 

I live in a DC Maryland suberb. So I'm able to get a lot of info on the franchise. Trust me, compared to the ad-hoc and haphazard way this franchise has been run since Dan Snyder bought the team it is apparent that this franchise is now being run in a much more responsible and competent manner.

 

Possibly, but I'll I'll stick with "no." Shanahan himself has said that he'll get 2 years to make his mark, or Danny will take over again. With the way things are looking, it will be another bad season in Washington. And it's mostly because Shanahan, in 2 off-seasons, has failed to get even a solid starting QB.

 

Prior to Shanahan accepting to take over he told the owner that in order to do things right in turning around the franchise it was going to take 4-5 years. He told the owner that if he wasn't willing to accept that time frame then he needed to get someone else for the job. The owner agreed to the deal. True to his word the owner for the past couple of years has not interfered on the football side of the operation.

 

Possibly, but I'll I'll stick with "no."

 

What a surprise!!!!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Thanks John. Didn't realize you were that close to the situation.

 

Shanny is an interesting character with obvious strengths and flaws.

 

He is a mastermind in some regards and I seem to remember that he was the only coach who had a winning career record against Belichick.

 

So I do respect the guy and would not underestimate him.

 

Like I said, Sunday will be an interesting game.

[H2o]

Someone in another thread recently - and incorrectly - stated that Gailey is a "system coach" and doesn't tailor his scheme to his players. Obviously, this is 100% wrong - the exact opposite is true about Gailey. By contrast, Shanahan is the quintessential "system coach." He believes that he can coach up players to exceed their statistical averages by getting them to fit his scheme. As the article points out, at times that worked in Denver. Unfortunately for Shanny, his ego is so large that those successes actually hurt him in the end. He became convinced that his system is so genius that he can fit any QB or RB into it and they'll become All Pros. His hubris has cost him dearly in D.C., and it's fair to speculate whether an owner like Snyder has him on a short leash already.

 

Having said all of that, wouldn't it have been interesting if Shanny had come to Buffalo in 2010? He would've had a better QB to work with, and better running backs - along with an owner who would give him more time to build his roster.

 

Anyhow, I love Gailey, I'm glad it worked out the way it did.

Wonder if Shanahan has called Jake Plummer @ any point this year?

[Doc]

Prior to Shanahan accepting to take over he told the owner that in order to do things right in turning around the franchise it was going to take 4-5 years. He told the owner that if he wasn't willing to accept that time frame then he needed to get someone else for the job. The owner agreed to the deal. True to his word the owner for the past couple of years has not interfered on the football side of the operation.

 

What a surprise!!!!

Where did you get the bolded part? Because it's contradicted by this:

 

"Mike Shanahan was never going to have much time to make the Washington Redskins great again. He took the job as the team’s head coach telling people he thought he had two seasons before owner Daniel Snyder would want to run his team again."

 

The question is, what will it take for the Snyder to not want to run his team again?" Considering that the Skins were 6-10 last year, I'd have to think that he at least expects 3 more wins than that, i.e. a winning record. And then it will be back to the same old, same old.

[Coach Tuesday]

Wonder if Shanahan has called Jake Plummer @ any point this year?

 

Exactly - in a way it's hard to blame him - he made Jake Freaking Plumber into a servicable QB, basically by cutting the field in half for him to limit his reads and his mistakes, and giving him an amazing running game.