NY is giving the Bills $3Million

[oak tree 12]

One sentence in this article about the state budget spending....

 

$3 million spent to keep the Buffalo Bills in Buffalo, a deal made with the NFL team over a decade ago.

 

Is this a recurring payment every year?

 

whats your point?

 

LOL thats like 10 cents its part of the maintenance agreement made with the bills the bills bring a lot of money to this area and your worried about 3 million.

 

I'll bet the bills bring in for the community every home game much more than 3 million,give me a break.

[CodeMonkey]

seeing that we r ny states only football team we should be getting more

No sports team should get any money from the state, federal, or local governments.

If they cannot support themselves then they should get the !@#$ out.

[K Gun Special]

No sports team should get any money from the state, federal, or local governments.

If they cannot support themselves then they should get the !@#$ out.

 

 

THere are a few industries that would go under without assistance. first that comes to mind is the entire US farming industry. feel the same about them ?

[BuffaloWings]

One sentence in this article about the state budget spending....

 

$3 million spent to keep the Buffalo Bills in Buffalo, a deal made with the NFL team over a decade ago.

 

Is this a recurring payment every year?

I didn't know anything about this until now, so bear with me if some of my comments are a bit naive...

 

First, saying $3 million spent to keep the Buffalo Bills in Buffalo is a pretty broad statement. What does that really mean? Did Ralph tell Pataki that he won't move the team as long as NYS gives him $3M per year? billsfan might be on to something about the county/state payments for maintenance, but that doesn't tell me that it's just for keeping the Bills in Buffalo.

 

Second, as much as I want the Bills to stick around, that's a lot of money to be throwing at them. Given this major fiscal crisis, this all sounds fishy to me. It's as if this is some special interest money that the state should be spending on health care costs, welfare, unemployment, or education...not a sports team. Yes, I know it would significantly help the economy of Western NY, but to me it depends on what the $3 million is for.

[CodeMonkey]

THere are a few industries that would go under without assistance. first that comes to mind is the entire US farming industry. feel the same about them ?

They are necessary. Sports teams are not a necessity, just entertainment.

[SuperKillerRobots]

Isn't that the annual maintenance funding they get every year?

 

That's exactly what it is.

[Slayers]

They are necessary. Sports teams are not a necessity, just entertainment.

 

The team might not be a necessity but I would hate to see what happens to taxes when they lose all the extra tax money that each stadium brings in and don't forget about that pay check that every player gets is taxed by the state how much money would a state lose if they let a sports team leave?

[CodeMonkey]

The team might not be a necessity but I would hate to see what happens to taxes when they lose all the extra tax money that each stadium brings in and don't forget about that pay check that every player gets is taxed by the state how much money would a state lose if they let a sports team leave?

There is no way the things you mentioned makes up for these tax gifts, police on gamedays and other freebies by the local government. We are talking millions of dollars each year here. Also, I am no tax attorney (thank God) but I believe the players and other employees of the Bills pay NYS tax only for the time they are living in NYS. At least that's what it was for me when I was splitting time among two states. Not sure how many have residence in other states for the off season.

 

People like to make arguments that Sports teams are a net positive to a regions bottom line. Unfortunately that generally does not seem to be the case. Sports teams may very well increase the quality of life for those who enjoy that particular sport (generally a small minority of the population) but a economic positive, nah (except for the businesses right around the stadium ... again, a drop in the bucket compared to the entire local economy).

 

However, it may be true in Canada where governments do not subsidize sports teams at all from what I hear.

 

I would prefer the Bills to stay put. But trying to argue a fiscal calamity if they leave makes me giggle

 

Here is a dated but interesting read on the topic.

[GR8PRKN]

127 million is an 2009 estimate for the salary cap..... 3% (NYS Estimate Tax)= 3.8 Million....

 

If I was NYS I would take that every year....

[CodeMonkey]

127 million is an 2009 estimate for the salary cap..... 3% (NYS Estimate Tax)= 3.8 Million....

 

If I was NYS I would take that every year....

Even if it was the full 3.8 mil NYS would receive (which it probably is not ... see my previous post), if you read the title of this thread, NYS just gave the Bills 3 million. So in one fell swoop the vast majority of that "massive windfall for NYS" is gone. And that is just one thing the government is paying for.

[HurlyBurly51]

Yeah, I'm sure if we didn't have the Bills that $3M would be put to good use elsewhere.

[Albany,n.y.]

Why should a 90 yr old retiree in Watertown line Ralph Wilson's pockets?

Because he needs to learn to respect his elders.

[CodeMonkey]

Yeah, I'm sure if we didn't have the Bills that $3M would be put to good use elsewhere.

As bad off as the NYS budget is, there are many many better places for that money. Not firing as many teachers comes to mind immediately. Would Albany use the money wisely? Doubtful, they would probably give each other raises with it.

[HurlyBurly51]

Would Albany use the money wisely? Doubtful, they would probably give each other raises with it.

 

My point exactly. Let's just enjoy the Bills.

[Orton's Arm]

New York State has about 19.5 million people. A $3 million subsidy for the Bills works out to about fifteen cents per New York State resident per year. The amounts involved are too small to materially impact this state's overall financial picture.

 

Suppose, for example, that that $3 million were to be cut off tomorrow. Given the highly visible nature of the Bills, that elimination of funding would be a showy gesture from politicians, possibly intended to convince the public that our elected officials are "doing something" about the state's fiscal problems. And that would be true, in the same sense that someone spooning water out of the Titanic would be "doing something" to stop that ship from sinking.

 

New York State is the most heavily taxed state in the nation, which strongly suggests the fiscal problems it has are due to overspending. A debate about an inconsequential subsidy to a sports team would, I imagine, distract attention from the far larger and more meaningful sources of overspending.

[CodeMonkey]

New York State has about 19.5 million people. A $3 million subsidy for the Bills works out to about fifteen cents per New York State resident per year. The amounts involved are too small to materially impact this state's overall financial picture.

 

Suppose, for example, that that $3 million were to be cut off tomorrow. Given the highly visible nature of the Bills, that elimination of funding would be a showy gesture from politicians, possibly intended to convince the public that our elected officials are "doing something" about the state's fiscal problems. And that would be true, in the same sense that someone spooning water out of the Titanic would be "doing something" to stop that ship from sinking.

 

New York State is the most heavily taxed state in the nation, which strongly suggests the fiscal problems it has are due to overspending. A debate about an inconsequential subsidy to a sports team would, I imagine, distract attention from the far larger and more meaningful sources of overspending.

I agree with the general point you are trying to make. But using the fact that the NYS legislature is fiscally irresponsible for spending too much money as an argument for spending 3 million dollars frivolously on a sports team at the same time the state is laying off teachers smacks of something a Albany politician would say and makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

[Orton's Arm]

I agree with the general point you are trying to make. But using the fact that the NYS legislature is fiscally irresponsible for spending too much money as an argument for spending 3 million dollars frivolously on a sports team at the same time the state is laying off teachers smacks of something a Albany politician would say and makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

The state spending on the Bills is somewhat analogous to state spending on parks and so forth. State residents in general are free to either visit the parks, or to watch/listen to Bills games on their televisions or radios. The parallel between the two is that the state is spending money on something that is freely available to all state residents; but that might be taken advantage of by only a relatively small subset of residents. Without state subsidies, the odds of the Bills leaving New York State would increase.

 

This category of spending (on things freely available to the public) is not at the core of New York State's fiscal problems. If our politicians showed any willingness to resolve those core financial problems, we could easily afford the things we need, while also setting aside relatively modest amounts for luxuries such as professional football teams. Instead, Albany's politicians have chosen to hack away at some of the muscle and bone of our state spending, while leaving the fat completely intact.

[LGB]

... If our politicians showed any willingness to resolve those core financial problems, we could easily afford the things we need, while also setting aside relatively modest amounts for luxuries such as professional football teams. Instead, Albany's politicians have chosen to hack away at some of the muscle and bone of our state spending, while leaving the fat completely intact.

NYS is the laughingstock of the nation with our do-nothing state government. We used to have a seemingly good Attorney General who made Governor - only to have to resign in disgrace. Is there anything new here? Someone mentioned that NYS pays some of the highest taxes. Does anyone think that if we pay more taxes, that will mean that tax dollars will be better spent? Who cares if taxpayers support the Bills? I am sure that that the Bill's money is much better spent than most other state programs that funnel money - because people actually know about it. It is the back room deals, the self-appointed salaries and payoffs that we don't know about that should be investigated. If other states can tax less and provide the same services as New York, what is it about NYS that has taxes so high and drives businesses away?

 

BTW - go Bills!

[CodeMonkey]

The parallel between the two is that the state is spending money on something that is freely available to all state residents;

 

Without state subsidies, the odds of the Bills leaving New York State would increase.

Going to see a Bills game is free? Not the last time I checked. The game would be on TV with or without government welfare to Ralph. That happens because of a huge TV contract that Ralph shares in. That is not a parallel at all. The Bills are a privately held corporation.

 

It is my opinion that if any sports franchise (or corporation) cannot be self sufficient and requires government welfare to stay in business, they do not deserve to be in business.

[Orton's Arm]

Going to see a Bills game is free? Not the last time I checked. The game would be on TV with or without government welfare to Ralph. That happens because of a huge TV contract that Ralph shares in. That is not a parallel at all. The Bills are a privately held corporation.

 

It is my opinion that if any sports franchise (or corporation) cannot be self sufficient and requires government welfare to stay in business, they do not deserve to be in business.

The argument here would be that, without government subsidies, the Bills would be more likely to move to some other location. Sure, people could still watch the Los Angeles Bills on television, or listen to said games on the radio, but how many New York State residents would really want to do that?

 

As for the question of subsidies to professional teams in the first place--it's a tricky question. Municipalities and state governments, collectively, face a situation in which they'd collectively be better off if no one offered government subsidies to professional sports teams. But if someone else is offering a massive government subsidy to your city's sports team, then offering a subsidy of your own just became the cost of doing business.

 

In a perfect world, there'd be a federal law against any state or local government handing out a subsidy to any professional sports teams. But such a law would raise questions about federal versus state and local government rights; as well as the NFL's anti-trust exemption. In the absence of such a law, state or local subsidies are the price one pays for retaining one's professional sports teams.