Pilsner Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 QBs who won the SB and were not top draft picks? Lots? No. But yeah, a few. But QBs who won the SB and weren't franchise QBs? Let's look: Super Bowl-Winning Franchise QBs: Bart Starr Joe Namath Lend Dawson Johnny Unitas Roger Staubach Bob Griese Terry Bradshaw Ken Stabler Jim Plunkett Joe Montana Joe Theismann Phil Simms Troy Aikman Steve Young Brett Favre John Elway Kurt Warner Tom Brady Ben Roethlisberger Peyton Manning Eli Manning Drew Brees Super Bowl-Winning QBs Who Weren't Franchise QBs: Jim McMahon Doug Williams Jeff Hostetler (though that was Phil Simms' team. Hostetler was the backup.) Mark Rypien (though for three years he absolutely WAS a franchise QB. Something happened. I wonder if we'll ever know what it was.) Trent Dilfer Could go either way: Brad Johnson (look at his career, he was damn good. Every team that let him go ended up regretting it.) Summary: Out of 44 Super Bowls, 38 were clearly won by franchise QBs, and you should probably throw in Brad Johnson's SB win too. No non-franchise QB has ever won more than one Super Bowl. You say "you don't need a franchise QB to win it?" It looks to me like with very few exceptions, you do indeed need a franchise QB to win a Super Bowl. Drew Brees was not a first round draft pick. He was a 2nd if i recall. And Joe Montana... a 3rd. i could be wrong. If i'm correct tho, then they were not drafted as initial franchise qb's in the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilsner Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 QBs who won the SB and were not top draft picks? Lots? No. But yeah, a few. But QBs who won the SB and weren't franchise QBs? Let's look: Super Bowl-Winning Franchise QBs: Bart Starr Joe Namath Lend Dawson Johnny Unitas Roger Staubach Bob Griese Terry Bradshaw Ken Stabler Jim Plunkett Joe Montana Joe Theismann Phil Simms Troy Aikman Steve Young Brett Favre John Elway Kurt Warner Tom Brady Ben Roethlisberger Peyton Manning Eli Manning Drew Brees Super Bowl-Winning QBs Who Weren't Franchise QBs: Jim McMahon Doug Williams Jeff Hostetler (though that was Phil Simms' team. Hostetler was the backup.) Mark Rypien (though for three years he absolutely WAS a franchise QB. Something happened. I wonder if we'll ever know what it was.) Trent Dilfer Could go either way: Brad Johnson (look at his career, he was damn good. Every team that let him go ended up regretting it.) Summary: Out of 44 Super Bowls, 38 were clearly won by franchise QBs, and you should probably throw in Brad Johnson's SB win too. No non-franchise QB has ever won more than one Super Bowl. You say "you don't need a franchise QB to win it?" It looks to me like with very few exceptions, you do indeed need a franchise QB to win a Super Bowl. ok I take my last statement back. I suppose it depends on what your definition is of a "franchise qb" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 I am a proponent of Nix and Gailey doing whatever it takes if they identify a can't miss prospect, including "overpaying". Obviously there are no guarantees, but I want them to have the courage of their convictions. If the QB position doesn't sort itself out this year, I want to see them acquire one of the top flight ones from next year's draft if THEY feel he's worth it (as opposed to saying we thought he'd be a great one, but he just didn't fall to us). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 I was just reading the posts on here about Flutie - how he was the fourth best QB in our 50 years of history, and there were responses along the lines, "how pathetic is it that we've only had three or four good QB's in 50 years!" When I look at our QB situation in that context - of 50 years of ineptitude - and I wonder why we don't just go out next year and find a star QB at all costs! Trade whatever we've got to trade to get the guy who we're convinced is capable of being a star. Bring in a few guys - baltimore's second stringer comes to mind - and maybe draft another QB - if it takes bringing in three or four QB's to find the right one, then do it. It'd be great to be able to get a QB, LT, maybe a WR and OLB or TE in one offseason. But, WHEN WE'VE BEEN AS BAD AS WE'VE BEEN AT BRINGING IN A FRANCHISE QB, IT'S TIME TO FOCUS SOLELY ON FINDING ONE. I can see someone saying, "o.k., sure, we need to focus on QB, but how do we go about it, then?" My response to that would be draft the best one in the draft - just get the best one, regardless of what we've got to trade to get him - and then maybe bring in a young QB with potential, and if we can draft another one whose supposed to be good, then do it - who cares if people say, why draft another one when they just grabbed one? I don't think it'd be a waste to devote an offseason - to make solving the QB problem the top priority - our next offseason. I think the Bills will get one of the top QBs we all know about next year (Locker, Luck and Mallett), even if one of our guys does well this year. I think taking the Carolina Panthers route and getting a few good potential young guys would be a wise move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 I was just reading the posts on here about Flutie - how he was the fourth best QB in our 50 years of history, and there were responses along the lines, "how pathetic is it that we've only had three or four good QB's in 50 years!" When I look at our QB situation in that context - of 50 years of ineptitude - and I wonder why we don't just go out next year and find a star QB at all costs! Trade whatever we've got to trade to get the guy who we're convinced is capable of being a star. Bring in a few guys - baltimore's second stringer comes to mind - and maybe draft another QB - if it takes bringing in three or four QB's to find the right one, then do it. It'd be great to be able to get a QB, LT, maybe a WR and OLB or TE in one offseason. But, WHEN WE'VE BEEN AS BAD AS WE'VE BEEN AT BRINGING IN A FRANCHISE QB, IT'S TIME TO FOCUS SOLELY ON FINDING ONE. I can see someone saying, "o.k., sure, we need to focus on QB, but how do we go about it, then?" My response to that would be draft the best one in the draft - just get the best one, regardless of what we've got to trade to get him - and then maybe bring in a young QB with potential, and if we can draft another one whose supposed to be good, then do it - who cares if people say, why draft another one when they just grabbed one? I don't think it'd be a waste to devote an offseason - to make solving the QB problem the top priority - our next offseason. Your going to get torched for this post but I wont be the one to do it.....my simple answer is....you have to be very careful about putting all your resources into one player because if you MISS you have actually set the team back.... - Said player could be a bust - Said player could get hurt Also.....we aren't even to the point where we are at a strength in all the other areas yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 QBs who won the SB and were not top draft picks? Lots? No. But yeah, a few. But QBs who won the SB and weren't franchise QBs? Let's look: Super Bowl-Winning Franchise QBs: Bart Starr-round 17- pick 200 ...rofl Joe Namath- round one-pick 12 ** Len Dawson- round one- pick 5 ** Johnny Unitas round 9 -pick 102 Roger Staubach- round 10- pick 129 Bob Griese round one- pick 4 ** Terry Bradshaw round one pick one 1st overall *** Ken Stabler round 2 pick 52 Jim Plunkett round one pick one *** take note here he failed with the team that drafted him-traded to SF who released him and the Raiders picked him up and let him sit and recover. Joe Montana-round 3 pick 82 Joe Theismann round 4 pick 99 Phil Simms round one pick 7 ** Troy Aikman round one pick one 1st overall *** Steve Young supplemental draft round one--failed at TB with 2 2-14 seasons and was traded to SF where he started winning Brett Favre round 2 pick 33 John Elway round one pick one 1st overall *** Kurt Warner UNDRAFTED Tom Brady round 6 pick 199 Ben Roethlisberger round one pick 11 Peyton Manning -round one pick one 1st overall *** Eli Manning -round one pick one 1st overall *** Drew Brees round 2 pick 32 Super Bowl-Winning QBs Who Weren't Franchise QBs: Jim McMahon-round one pick 5 ** Doug Williams- round one pick 17 ** Jeff Hostetler (though that was Phil Simms' team. Hostetler was the backup.) Mark Rypien round 6 pick 146 (though for three years he absolutely WAS a franchise QB. Something happened. I wonder if we'll ever know what it was.) Trent Dilfer round one pick 6 ** Could go either way: Brad Johnson (look at his career, he was damn good. Every team that let him go ended up regretting it.) Summary: Out of 44 Super Bowls, 38 were clearly won by franchise QBs, and you should probably throw in Brad Johnson's SB win too. No non-franchise QB has ever won more than one Super Bowl. You say "you don't need a franchise QB to win it?" It looks to me like with very few exceptions, you do indeed need a franchise QB to win a Super Bowl. Now go back and look where some of those players were drafted to be "franchise" QB's, how many were first rounders or even 1st overall picks ? Most of those SB winning QB's didn't get the franchise moniker until they won a SB. both Montana and Brady weren't drafted as "franchise" QB's and won more then one SB 13 QB's were drafted in the first round and only 6 were first overall that actually won a SB I think Steve Young makes a classic case study in that he was drafted first overall in the supplemental draft and totally failed with his first team Tampa Bay as he went 2-14 2x, then went to a great SF team with a brilliant offensive minded head coach in Bill Walsh and he learned behind Joe Montana. Jim Plunkett was another highly touted college QB that was drafted 1st overall and failed with his first team in NE, traded to SF and they flat out released him. The Raiders picked him up and let him sit and recover from the poundings he took at his 2 previous teams and then played like a champion for the Raiders, who had a great O line and running game. Some of the greatest to ever play the game in Montana-Farve-Brady-Starr-Staubach were not "franchise" players drafted in the first round, and Kurt Warner was a walk on. All this did was prove that you need a GM that knows talent and can identify the difference between Ryan Leaf and Payton Manning, lets hope the Bills have one in Buddy Nix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QBs who won the SB and were not top draft picks? Lots? No. But yeah, a few. But QBs who won the SB and weren't franchise QBs? Let's look: Super Bowl-Winning Franchise QBs: Bart Starr Joe Namath Lend Dawson Johnny Unitas Roger Staubach Bob Griese Terry Bradshaw Ken Stabler Jim Plunkett Joe Montana Joe Theismann Phil Simms Troy Aikman Steve Young Brett Favre John Elway Kurt Warner Tom Brady Ben Roethlisberger Peyton Manning Eli Manning Drew Brees Super Bowl-Winning QBs Who Weren't Franchise QBs: Jim McMahon Doug Williams Jeff Hostetler (though that was Phil Simms' team. Hostetler was the backup.) Mark Rypien (though for three years he absolutely WAS a franchise QB. Something happened. I wonder if we'll ever know what it was.) Trent Dilfer Could go either way: Brad Johnson (look at his career, he was damn good. Every team that let him go ended up regretting it.) Summary: Out of 44 Super Bowls, 38 were clearly won by franchise QBs, and you should probably throw in Brad Johnson's SB win too. No non-franchise QB has ever won more than one Super Bowl. You say "you don't need a franchise QB to win it?" It looks to me like with very few exceptions, you do indeed need a franchise QB to win a Super Bowl. I get your point, and I don't disagree that most of those guys are/were franchise QBs. But the history of several of them is more nuanced than that in that they sure weren't seen as "franchise QBs" by several teams they played for. Seems like having the right type of players around them and the right type of coaching made a huge difference in how we see them today. Even Bradshaw was widely seen as a bust at first. Len Dawson -- Dumped right out of the NFL, wound up in the upstart AFL Johnny Unitas -- Dumped by the woeful Steelers of the 50s Jim Plunkett -- Dumped Steve Young -- Dumped Brett Favre -- traded away Kurt Warner -- Legendary tale of not being taken seriously by several teams Tom Brady -- 6th round pick, gathering moss on NE bench until Bledsoe got injured Big Ben -- Team won super bowls, but I don't consider him a top level QB Eli Manning -- Not even as good as Roethlisberger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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