Bills played 3 of the 4 remaining teams

[truth on hold]

Jets: split

 

Saints: lost but had a chance to win. Jaurons ill fated punt on 4th a foot did them in

 

Colts: blew out their second team

 

so Bills went 2 & 2 against the league's 4 best teams

and they werent dominated by any of them

 

give me a) a coach and b) healthy players, and Bills can be competitive

[Pozitive51]

The Bills played the Saints very close until late in the fourth quater. This was early in the year, and points to the fact that this team wasn't that bad before all the injuries hit.

[Bob in STL]

Jets: split

 

Saints: lost but had a chance to win. Jaurons ill fated punt on 4th a foot did them in

 

Colts: blew out their second team

 

so Bills went 2 & 2 against the league's 4 best teams

and they werent dominated by any of them

 

give me a) a coach and b) healthy players, and Bills can be competitive

 

 

Last season we lacked several things:

 

1. Coach - I blame Jauron for going into the season with the no huddle, for firing the OC right before the season started, for the late cut of Walker, for not standing up to Brandon on Peters.

 

2. QB - amazed that we won 6 games with the play we had at QB.

 

3. OL experience. Too much youth. Too much faith in unproven players. Clueless mismanagement.

 

4. LB - nothing done in the off season to improve or add depth and it killed our defense. More clueless mismanagement.

 

Just think what we could do with a quality LT, on more LB that can make plays, and an average QB? A hard list to fill but not impossible.

 

We are close.

[The Avenger]

Jets: split

 

Saints: lost but had a chance to win. Jaurons ill fated punt on 4th a foot did them in

 

Colts: blew out their second team

 

so Bills went 2 & 2 against the league's 4 best teams

and they werent dominated by any of them

 

give me a) a coach and b) healthy players, and Bills can be competitive

 

 

Woah - let's noy carried away here.

 

In the game the Bills took from the Jets, NY turned the ball over 6 times and we still only managed to beat them by 3. They beat us by 6 later in the year but dominated us statistically 249 yards rushing) and as I recall, butterfingers Brylon Edwrds dropped at lest 1 ball for a certain TD - we were 1 of 11 on third down conversions.

 

We lost to the Saints by almost 3 touchdowns and our only points of the day came from a fake punt gizmo play - not even a FG from the offense.

 

To take pride in beating the Colts second and third string players in a meaningless game at home in week 17 is laughable - how that tells us anything about how the Bills can match up against a team like the Colts in a real world situation is beyond me, unless you consider a scenario where we play them and they lose 10+ starters thoughout the course of the game.

[Mr. WEO]

Woah - let's noy carried away here.

 

In the game the Bills took from the Jets, NY turned the ball over 6 times and we still only managed to beat them by 3. They beat us by 6 later in the year but dominated us statistically 249 yards rushing) and as I recall, butterfingers Brylon Edwrds dropped at lest 1 ball for a certain TD - we were 1 of 11 on third down conversions.

 

We lost to the Saints by almost 3 touchdowns and our only points of the day came from a fake punt gizmo play - not even a FG from the offense.

 

To take pride in beating the Colts second and third string players in a meaningless game at home in week 17 is laughable - how that tells us anything about how the Bills can match up against a team like the Colts in a real world situation is beyond me, unless you consider a scenario where we play them and they lose 10+ starters thoughout the course of the game.

Outstanding reply!!

 

Let's hope Avenger's clearheaded post ends this stuff.

[nostyle126]

Woah - let's noy carried away here.

 

In the game the Bills took from the Jets, NY turned the ball over 6 times and we still only managed to beat them by 3. They beat us by 6 later in the year but dominated us statistically 249 yards rushing) and as I recall, butterfingers Brylon Edwrds dropped at lest 1 ball for a certain TD - we were 1 of 11 on third down conversions.

 

We lost to the Saints by almost 3 touchdowns and our only points of the day came from a fake punt gizmo play - not even a FG from the offense.

 

To take pride in beating the Colts second and third string players in a meaningless game at home in week 17 is laughable - how that tells us anything about how the Bills can match up against a team like the Colts in a real world situation is beyond me, unless you consider a scenario where we play them and they lose 10+ starters thoughout the course of the game.

+1, maybe more.

[truth on hold]

+1, maybe more.

- 1 more like it. actually one of the worst posts i've seen. if you want to nit pick and say "well this team turned it over, and that team didn't make kicks, etc etc" to discredit wins, then almost no team deserves any of their wins. and when you say things like "how can you say we were close when we had no offense" can be flipped around to say "if only we had a little offense we would have won."

 

bottom line: a win's a win, a loss is a loss.

[nostyle126]

- 1 more like it. actually one of the worst posts i've seen. if you want to nit pick and say "well this team turned it over, and that team didn't make kicks, etc etc" to discredit wins, then almost no team deserves any of their wins. and when you say things like "how can you say we were close when we had no offense" can be flipped around to say "if only we had a little offense we would have won."

 

bottom line: a win's a win, a loss is a loss.

Fair enough. So we had 6 wins and 10 losses which meant we didn't even qualify to PLAY these teams in the postseason.

 

Bottom line.

[truth on hold]

Fair enough. So we had 6 wins and 10 losses which meant we didn't even qualify to PLAY these teams in the postseason.

 

Bottom line.

we have a tendency to play up or down to our level of competition, hence the consecutive losses to cleveland

[nostyle126]

we have a tendency to play up or down to our level of competition, hence the consecutive losses to cleveland

We have a tendency to lose more than we win, every year. Hence the lack of postseason play.

[nostyle126]

I find it ironic that you criticize The Avenger for discrediting wins, while you're discrediting losses.

[truth on hold]

I find it ironic that you criticize The Avenger for discrediting wins, while you're discrediting losses.

not discrediting them at all. win's a win, loss is a loss. point is there are things this team can fix to be a competitive team now ... one of them is playing to our potential regardless of the competition. and our potential shows we can compete with the best teams in the league.

[CosmicBills]

Jets: split

 

Saints: lost but had a chance to win. Jaurons ill fated punt on 4th a foot did them in

 

Colts: blew out their second team

 

so Bills went 2 & 2 against the league's 4 best teams

and they werent dominated by any of them

 

give me a) a coach and b) healthy players, and Bills can be competitive

Joe, I love ya, but this is the kind of thinking that has doomed the Bills for the past decade. You sound just like Ralph Wilson ... "We were close! We don't need any changes, just some better bounces."

 

Yikes.

 

This is the type of thinking that leads to hiring Dick Juaron AND retaining him despite an epic collapse after a 5-1 start. It's the kind of thinking that leads the hiring of Gregg Williams, Mike Mularky, Marv Levy as GM. All medicore coaching hires who were allowed to stay for far too long because "we're so close to being relevant". It's the kind of thinking that leads to sticking with Rob Johnson, Drew Bledsoe, JP Lossman, Trent Edwards, and Ryan Fitzpatrick as STARTING QBs for far too long because, "they ALMOST win games".

 

As several other posters have already pointed out, this revisionist analysis of those 4 games is not just inaccurate, it's crippling to the team. Grant it, I'm exaggerating as it isn't crippling for fans to feel this way per say ... but it's clear the front office and Ralph Wilson DO feel this way and it's taken this once proud franchise and turned it into a cellar dweller.

 

It would be one thing if it was a one year phenomenon. But it's been TEN YEARS of the same thing ... "ALMOST winning games". Ten years of saying the same thing. Ten years!!! TEN! At some point you have to stop looking at the team with that crippling outlook and take a REALISTIC view of them.

 

The only way for the Bills to turn it around is to understand how bad they've become. Here are the highlights:

 

1. They have not had an elite QB, or even a winning QB, since Kelly retired with the possible exception of the Drew Bledsoe experiment. Right now, they don't have a starting NFL QB on the roster. Not one.

 

2. They have perhaps the worst offensive line in the entire league. Certainly the worst LT depth and one of the worst RT rotations. There is some hope with Levitre and Wood. But you can't win without a good offensive line. Period.

 

3. They have the worst LB corps in the entire league. When he was starting, Ellison was the WORST starting LB in the NFL. Maybe in the history of the NFL. Yet fans and the front office proclaim him to be good.

 

4. They only have one bonafide pass rusher on the roster, and he may retire this year.

 

Those are four HUGE holes. And we haven't even talked about the coaching and front office.

 

So, say what you want about how the Bills are 2-2 against the final four this year, but I think we both know that's not saying much. The Bills aren't close to competing for the wild card, let alone the AFC East. It's time for people to stop making excuses or playing the "what if" game and get real about the state of this team.

[BillsFanInLV]

Woah - let's noy carried away here.

 

In the game the Bills took from the Jets, NY turned the ball over 6 times and we still only managed to beat them by 3. They beat us by 6 later in the year but dominated us statistically 249 yards rushing) and as I recall, butterfingers Brylon Edwrds dropped at lest 1 ball for a certain TD - we were 1 of 11 on third down conversions.

 

We lost to the Saints by almost 3 touchdowns and our only points of the day came from a fake punt gizmo play - not even a FG from the offense.

 

To take pride in beating the Colts second and third string players in a meaningless game at home in week 17 is laughable - how that tells us anything about how the Bills can match up against a team like the Colts in a real world situation is beyond me, unless you consider a scenario where we play them and they lose 10+ starters thoughout the course of the game.

 

I agree with everything you stated but want to make a quick point.

 

Everyone attaches an asteric to the win over the Colts because their starters were removed in the 2nd quarter, and some just didn't play at all. ---With our 18+ players on IR we were essentially playing with the same caliber players (2nd, 3rd stringers as well as several walk-ons) ALL SEASON long.

 

The Colts are on the cusp of going to the Superbowl and have been healthy (and nearly undefeated) all season. Their well coached, well managed 2nd stringers pooped the bed against our pathetic 2nd and 3rd stringers. I don't think we should attempt to negate the validity of the week 17 win. We were essentially on even playing terms and we won.-----Just my thoughts, GO BILLS!

[truth on hold]

Joe, I love ya, but this is the kind of thinking that has doomed the Bills for the past decade. You sound just like Ralph Wilson ... "We were close! We don't need any changes, just some better bounces."

 

Yikes.

 

This is the type of thinking that leads to hiring Dick Juaron AND retaining him despite an epic collapse after a 5-1 start. It's the kind of thinking that leads the hiring of Gregg Williams, Mike Mularky, Marv Levy as GM. All medicore coaching hires who were allowed to stay for far too long because "we're so close to being relevant". It's the kind of thinking that leads to sticking with Rob Johnson, Drew Bledsoe, JP Lossman, Trent Edwards, and Ryan Fitzpatrick as STARTING QBs for far too long because, "they ALMOST win games".

 

As several other posters have already pointed out, this revisionist analysis of those 4 games is not just inaccurate, it's crippling to the team. Grant it, I'm exaggerating as it isn't crippling for fans to feel this way per say ... but it's clear the front office and Ralph Wilson DO feel this way and it's taken this once proud franchise and turned it into a cellar dweller.

 

It would be one thing if it was a one year phenomenon. But it's been TEN YEARS of the same thing ... "ALMOST winning games". Ten years of saying the same thing. Ten years!!! TEN! At some point you have to stop looking at the team with that crippling outlook and take a REALISTIC view of them.

 

The only way for the Bills to turn it around is to understand how bad they've become. Here are the highlights:

 

1. They have not had an elite QB, or even a winning QB, since Kelly retired with the possible exception of the Drew Bledsoe experiment. Right now, they don't have a starting NFL QB on the roster. Not one.

 

2. They have perhaps the worst offensive line in the entire league. Certainly the worst LT depth and one of the worst RT rotations. There is some hope with Levitre and Wood. But you can't win without a good offensive line. Period.

 

3. They have the worst LB corps in the entire league. When he was starting, Ellison was the WORST starting LB in the NFL. Maybe in the history of the NFL. Yet fans and the front office proclaim him to be good.

 

4. They only have one bonafide pass rusher on the roster, and he may retire this year.

 

Those are four HUGE holes. And we haven't even talked about the coaching and front office.

 

So, say what you want about how the Bills are 2-2 against the final four this year, but I think we both know that's not saying much. The Bills aren't close to competing for the wild card, let alone the AFC East. It's time for people to stop making excuses or playing the "what if" game and get real about the state of this team.

tg, i agree with everything you say. i hope i didnt come across as making excuses. im just pointing out our expectations should be higher, not super low where they are now. we can be a competitive as early as next year. and if anything what im pointing out is, we shouldnt accept reasons for continued losing. sure bills have holes, but no team is perfect ... every team is in a state of flux to one degree or another. our holes can be addressed, in whole or part, now. teams can make quick turnarounds, we should demand the same. consider falcons and fins looked worse than we do a few years ago, and both of them won their division the next year.

[CosmicBills]

tg, i agree with everything you say. i hope i didnt come across as making excuses. im just pointing out our expectations should be higher, not super low where they are now. we can be a competitive as early as next year. and if anything what im pointing out is, we shouldnt accept reasons for continued losing. sure bills have holes, but no team is perfect ... every team is in a state of flux to one degree or another. our holes can be addressed, in whole or part, now. teams can make quick turnarounds, we should demand the same. consider falcons and fins looked worse than we do a few years ago, and both of them won their division the next year.

Oh, absolutely. I'm not saying a turnaround is impossible -- even a quick one. Lord knows that's what I'm hoping for. I just don't think it's possible until the front office takes an honest look at the state of the team. Which, I'm hoping Buddy Nix does but the fact that he was an in-house hire doesn't fill me with confidence.

[nostyle126]

Just remember, this team not only needs to improve its roster AND its coaching, but it also needs to overcome the stigma of being a losing franchise. Even when we have good personnel and a competent staff, we're going to have to learn how to win games again. We're still a team with a weak psyche.

[truth on hold]

we have strengths to build around. good running backs, good receivers, the best secondary in football, some good young olinemen. if we had nothing we wouldnt have won 6 games. and with the coach we had, who knows we might have won a few more.