GG Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Somebody here asks the question, why is this still going on? Here's an answer: Johnson's fans, much like Edwards' fans today, have a litany of excuses why their man doesn't do better. Which is fine. Until they forget that the guy they don't like is winning with the same bad O-line, the same dumb coaches, etc. Actually I think it's the opposite, Flutopians can't let go of the myth, because the little guy got a raw deal. Perhaps. But it's not like he was going to win against top teams which was the crux of the debate at the time. I think that even the hardest RJ supporters of the time can admit that the guy just didn't have the full package to succeed in the game. However, back then it was obvious to most observers that Flutie's game had topped out and he had serious issues playing against top teams. By 1999 he was shot and didn't look much better in 2000. So realistically it always made more sense to go with the younger guy to see if he would amount to anything. Unfortunately, the RJ experiment failed, but it's not like things would have been rosy if Flutie was retained. By his second year in SD, he lost his job to a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Squirrel Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Flutie's play cost us a home playoff game in 1999. That is indisputable. I now pronounce myself "Mr. Indisputable!" Boy, that's not very hard to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Squirrel Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Actually I think it's the opposite, Flutopians can't let go of the myth, because the little guy got a raw deal. Perhaps. But it's not like he was going to win against top teams which was the crux of the debate at the time. I think that even the hardest RJ supporters of the time can admit that the guy just didn't have the full package to succeed in the game. However, back then it was obvious to most observers that Flutie's game had topped out and he had serious issues playing against top teams. By 1999 he was shot and didn't look much better in 2000. So realistically it always made more sense to go with the younger guy to see if he would amount to anything. Unfortunately, the RJ experiment failed, but it's not like things would have been rosy if Flutie was retained. By his second year in SD, he lost his job to a rookie. Hmmm. Almost sounds fair, if you can overlook the patronizing use of the term "Flutopians". But then you pretty much ignored what I wrote, and then added something that is utter nonsense about 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Hmmm. Sounds nice, and conciliatory. If you ignore the patronizing use of the term "Flutopians". But you pretty much ignored what I wrote, and then added something that is utter nonsense about 2000. I ignored it because everything you wrote had nothing to do with your claim that RJ's supporters are the ones who keep dragging things up. I think that 99% of RJ's supporters at the time fully realize his abilities by now. If you're referring specifically to his performance in that one game, then everyone also forgets that Wade decided to play Fina with a bad leg in the first quarter against one of the better pass rushers that year, which led to Titans' early points. Take that, and a few questionable calls that went against Buffalo in the first half and I think that Johnson played very well in the second half to put his team in a position to win. The way Flutie finished the second part of '99 doesn't give me much confidence that the result would have been much different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Squirrel Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 I ignored it because everything you wrote had nothing to do with your claim that RJ's supporters are the ones who keep dragging things up. I think that 99% of RJ's supporters at the time fully realize his abilities by now. If you're referring specifically to his performance in that one game, then everyone also forgets that Wade decided to play Fina with a bad leg in the first quarter against one of the better pass rushers that year, which led to Titans' early points. Take that, and a few questionable calls that went against Buffalo in the first half and I think that Johnson played very well in the second half to put his team in a position to win. The way Flutie finished the second part of '99 doesn't give me much confidence that the result would have been much different. I guess you misunderstood something I typed in a prior post, and I have no idea why. I never said anything bad about Johnson's performance in the Tennessee game. But once again, you prove my initial point; you have excuses out your wazoo about why Johnson didn't leave that game with a 158 passer rating, but you just won't concede that the same reasons why he didn't could possibly account for why Flutie had a few ragged games in '99. One game that was quite similar was the Baltimore game. It was obvious that the Ravens were building a top D (see: the following season), but winning the game wasn't enough. The AZ game, which I was at, a Cards DB who never made a good play his entire pro career made a circus catch INT. The two losses in the middle of the season against the Raiders and Seahawks...no defense those two days, and the Bills had to chuck and chuck and chuck the whole game. See what I mean? Excuses are easy to come by, and I could say the same thing you did...how would those games be different with Johnson? And there is an obvious answer....Rob would eventually have fallen on the ball again, and Doug would have been back out of necessity. And on that note, I'm outta here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Here's a fact Johnson and Flutie both sucked...as QBs and as teammates. Neither could do the job onfield and neither was mature enough to put the team first because they both brought the QB controversy to the media in a childish manner anyone who doesn't realize that is living in a fantasy world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHILL Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Johnson's performance in the 49ers game is kind of overstated. The 49ers just didn't mentally show up for the game. They had something like 25 penalties that day. And eventually they did wake up and almost came back to win it. I agree with you that RJ did a heckuva job against the Titans; I don't think that winning the game would have altered the future for him. He was just a fragile guy (his wikipedia entry describes his elbow tendon before Tommy John surgery as being frayed from overuse; if I were him, I'd edit that myself, because that's just embarrassing), and he reacted horribly to defensive pressure. Somebody here asks the question, why is this still going on? Here's an answer: Johnson's fans, much like Edwards' fans today, have a litany of excuses why their man doesn't do better. Which is fine. Until they forget that the guy they don't like is winning with the same bad O-line, the same dumb coaches, etc. The poster that chewed my a$$ and said I was a RJ homer and made him sick stated that Flutie turned around the season. I pointed out that the turnaround actually started w/Johnson under center. My thought was would it have given him more confidence, would the split locker room decided to follow him? My thought was that would have been his defining moment...he never came close to anything else. I think Flutie should have played the game. Everybody complained about his lack of production but he just found ways to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Great, great find. Finally, something approaching proof that Wade was ordered to play Rob Johnson by Wilson. We all know it happened. Why do we need to bother with proof? It's not like Ralph would ever admit it publicly (even though that is the only true way to lift the curse) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Johnson's performance in the 49ers game is kind of overstated. The 49ers just didn't mentally show up for the game. They had something like 25 penalties that day. And eventually they did wake up and almost came back to win it. 22 penalties..and don't say it's just because the 49ers didn't mentally show up that day. I've had seasons for 14 years and that day was the loudest I've seen that stadium on a consistent basis in that time. Their LT was frazzled because it was his first start, he was facing BRUCE, and he couldn't hear the snap count. We even had Steve Young so frazzled that he lined up behind the G at first on one play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 I ignored it because everything you wrote had nothing to do with your claim that RJ's supporters are the ones who keep dragging things up. I think that 99% of RJ's supporters at the time fully realize his abilities by now. If you're referring specifically to his performance in that one game, then everyone also forgets that Wade decided to play Fina with a bad leg in the first quarter against one of the better pass rushers that year, which led to Titans' early points. Take that, and a few questionable calls that went against Buffalo in the first half and I think that Johnson played very well in the second half to put his team in a position to win. The way Flutie finished the second part of '99 doesn't give me much confidence that the result would have been much different. I thought that sack came against a banged up Hicks, not Fina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 I thought that sack came against a banged up Hicks, not Fina. possible...but Fina started the game http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxs...00001080oti.htm As I recall though, Fina went out in that game and they moved Dusty Zeigler over to LT and brought Jamie Nails in off the bench to play RG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 possible...but Fina started the gamehttp://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxs...00001080oti.htm As I recall though, Fina went out in that game and they moved Dusty Zeigler over to LT and brought Jamie Nails in off the bench to play RG That's my recollection. Fina played for the first two series, and Kearse had a field day that put Buffalo in an early hole. Ziegler did admirable as LT for the rest of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffery Lester Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Where do they find you people? Rob Johnson was the worst quarterback ever to play in the NFL. If you remember it was Flutie who came in and turned around the Bills '98 season after Johnson screwed it up showing his ineptitude as a quarterback. Flutie came in and instantly made everyone around him better and carried the team to the playoffs. Then he did the same thing the following season until they put Johnson in in the playoffs. That game never would have come down to a music city miracle if Flutie had started over Johnson IMO because Johnson routinely missed receivers on third downs, stalling drives and doing what he did best, get sacked! Starting Johnson over Flutie that game and running Flutie out of town was the WORST WORST WORST thing this franchise has ever done and listening to all you RJ homers is making me sick! Go eat what is left of your Flutie flakes and be happy. Flutie was the proverbal team recker that year. This is why he was run out of town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Huzzah for Flutie for most of 1998, boo for Flutie in the 1998 post-season. For ALL of 1999, he sucked on ice. 10 - 5. Man, whoever the QB is next year, I hope he sucks on ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 That's my recollection. Fina played for the first two series, and Kearse had a field day that put Buffalo in an early hole. Ziegler did admirable as LT for the rest of the game. They both started the game, but my dim recollection is that Kearse (a LDE, not a RDE) got the sack against the RT (Hicks) on that play, not the LT. They were both hobbled - Hicks had been suffering from a high ankle sprain most of the year, and he was a stiff player anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Squirrel Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 22 penalties..and don't say it's just because the 49ers didn't mentally show up that day. I've had seasons for 14 years and that day was the loudest I've seen that stadium on a consistent basis in that time. Their LT was frazzled because it was his first start, he was facing BRUCE, and he couldn't hear the snap count. We even had Steve Young so frazzled that he lined up behind the G at first on one play The points you make are fair, but my recollection is there were several pass interference penalties on SF early in the game. These types of penalties wouldn't have much to do with crowd noise (other than to increase it afterwords). I readily admit that I am going solely on memory here, because complete historical boxscores and game reports are hard to find. And whether it was 25 or 22 is not exactly turning my argument on it's ear. Meanwhile, the Pats are getting punked, and I'm sure we agree that's a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 The points you make are fair, but my recollection is there were several pass interference penalties on SF early in the game. These types of penalties wouldn't have much to do with crowd noise (other than to increase it afterwords). I readily admit that I am going solely on memory here, because complete historical boxscores and game reports are hard to find. And whether it was 25 or 22 is not exactly turning my argument on it's ear. Meanwhile, the Pats are getting punked, and I'm sure we agree that's a good thing. Yeah...there were a bunch of pass interference penalties...on both sides, though. He's retired now and I can't recall the name, but the referee for that game was known as someone who generally threw a lot of flags...we had 12 penalties ourselves. Luckily, that was back when our fans were smart enough to shut up when the offense was on the field so getting false starts at home were rare. They got a lot of false start penalties, though...maybe 4 by their LT on his own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 I wonder if the Flutie curse that was lifted off Wade is now by extension also removed off the Bills. Who knows Patriots lose and Brady doesn't look so perfect anymore. Cowher + Buffalo = Playoffs 2010. Hey a fan can dream can't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 10 - 5. Man, whoever the QB is next year, I hope he sucks on ice. Defense had something to do with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 10 - 5. Man, whoever the QB is next year, I hope he sucks on ice. Defense had something to do with that. Being ranked #1 in the league...the fact that Flutie played awful that year...the defense was easily the biggest reason for the 10-5 record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts