ralph wilson's children

[zazie]

Since Ralph's businesses are private, there's no real way to determine their total net worth. I don't know anything at all about the guy other that what I read. But one thing that can be reasonably inferred is that he is good with money.

Ralph grew up during the Great Depression, so one can assume that he's conservative with his money. I would assume that he avoided the traps that caught so many people during this near depression, like investing in sub prime mortgages, credit default swaps, etc. So based on this, you could make the assumption that he's got a succession plan in place.

There will also be tremendous polical pressure to keep the team in Buffalo.

I know lots of uninformed people on this board think he's cheap, but he didn't get rich by being stupid with his money.

He's a miser because he grew up in the worst financial crash in American history.

No one has been able to convince me that lavish spending produces a consistent winner. The Redskins are the prime example. Snyder has been throwing money at that team since he bought it, bringing in big name free agents and "name" coaches. If Shannahan signs with the team, I think the result is going to be the same.

Jerry Jones has been doing the same thing. So far, his return on invenstment has been lousy.

One of the more "miserly" organizations in the league just won the Superbowl last year.

I could go on. Ralph may be cheap, but he's not stupid with his money.

I think that, if he can swing it, he'll try to keep the team in Bufalo after he dies.

Political pressure from Mayor Brown or the blind gov?

 

Puleeze, a couple pay-offs (a little pork barrel) and the senators and congressmen from NY will step right into line.

 

Buffalo simply does not have the corporate base needed to maximize the efficiency (money making wise) from an NFL franchise. Let Kraft and HP move corporate into the area, then we have a chance. As long as state and local taxes are designed to keep new companies AWAY from Buffalo (and companies here keep moving same reason) it is only natural that the Bills will move, and from an economic efficiency model they should and must move.

 

Although the same could be said for Green Bay long long ago and that has been resisted, so who knows how long it will be. But other cities like Dayton or Rochester used to have clubs also.

[Guest three3]

true

But if you think about it the idea is ridiculous. Assume for a minute the daughters did want the team. theyd still be faced with the dilemma assuming there was no plan in place. Now think of all the sports teams owned by families, that pass down through the generations....theres a few. They get by through the use of estate planning and trust entities. Its very complicated and highly specialized fields.

People with that much wealth just dont let it get fully taxed, they take advantage of the law and maximize the money theyve earned.

 

 

yes, he EARNED that money. keep telling yourself that. next thing you'll say is that he actually DESERVES that much money.

[zazie]

yes, he EARNED that money. keep telling yourself that. next thing you'll say is that he actually DESERVES that much money.

RW certainly earned it more so than his daughters....

 

and way more than the grandkids who are growing up to be little Adam James's I am sure, entitlement spread to every bone on their body.

[Coby Fan]

The issue here is that RW's wife Mary is not the mother to the three daughters.

Ralph can not leave the team to his daughters unless he has the cash/assets to match the team's value so he can take care of his wife. (not sure what Michigan law would require, but most states require your wife gets 1/2 of your estate)

I remember years ago RW divorced wife #1 and at that time paid the largest alamony settlement in Michigan history.

Mary is closer in age to RW's daughters than to wife #1. So the Bills fans are going to get screwed because when RW was having his midlife crisis he dumped his wife (and the mother of those girls) for a much younger woman.

RW screwed the new wife, got screwed by the 1st wife in court, and will screw the Bills fans when dead.

[Doc]

The issue here is that RW's wife Mary is not the mother to the three daughters.

Ralph can not leave the team to his daughters unless he has the cash/assets to match the team's value so he can take care of his wife. (not sure what Michigan law would require, but most states require your wife gets 1/2 of your estate)

I remember years ago RW divorced wife #1 and at that time paid the largest alamony settlement in Michigan history.

Mary is closer in age to RW's daughters than to wife #1. So the Bills fans are going to get screwed because when RW was having his midlife crisis he dumped his wife (and the mother of those girls) for a much younger woman.

RW screwed the new wife, got screwed by the 1st wife in court, and will screw the Bills fans when dead.

What's the problem again? If Mary is young and Ralph has to leave the team to her...

[K Gun Special]

The issue here is that RW's wife Mary is not the mother to the three daughters.

Ralph can not leave the team to his daughters unless he has the cash/assets to match the team's value so he can take care of his wife. (not sure what Michigan law would require, but most states require your wife gets 1/2 of your estate)

I remember years ago RW divorced wife #1 and at that time paid the largest alamony settlement in Michigan history.

Mary is closer in age to RW's daughters than to wife #1. So the Bills fans are going to get screwed because when RW was having his midlife crisis he dumped his wife (and the mother of those girls) for a much younger woman.

RW screwed the new wife, got screwed by the 1st wife in court, and will screw the Bills fans when dead.

 

 

No no no. . You are referring to the elective share which is between 1/3 -1/2 of the elective estate- which is calculated diff in every state, some states dont even have the elective share so Ralph's wife might not be able to claim it in michigan. Even in states where the widow would get 1/2 it is reduced by the amount the widow has gained as a result of the marriage, which in this case i would assume is a lot. SO in all liklihood, Ralph's 2nd wife wont make out like a bandito and have his kids screwed.

 

 

All speculation at this point bc we dont know what ralphs will or trusts mandate.

[taterhill]

yes, he EARNED that money. keep telling yourself that. next thing you'll say is that he actually DESERVES that much money.

when a persons decisions resulted in the growth of an asset, then yes they have EARNED it

[K Gun Special]

when a persons decisions resulted in the growth of an asset, then yes they have EARNED it

 

But dey took er jobs!!!!

[dollars 2 donuts]

Actually, he paid $25,000 for the team. 50 years ago, $2 million probably could have bought you a NFL franchise.

 

$270 million in taxes is a problem for pretty much anybody. I'm guessing that if you exclude the Bills, his entire estate isn't worth anywhere close to that much. So on top of factors already mentioned, if he left the team to his children, they would have to sell it just to pay the taxes they owed on it.

 

 

I'll say this though if they wanted to own the team; financing 270 million dollars over a period of time is a whole hell of lot cheaper than someone from the outside laying down 820 million, part cash part-financing, to buy the team AND keep them in Buffalo.

 

The Bills are very profitable for Ralph b/c he is not paying on any loans for the team and has no mortgage for a stadium.

 

...its the next guy who is going to get hit hard with those things unless he has money to burn.

 

Oh, and really, really just my opinion, but if someone buys them and they stay in Buffalo for more than 10 years, sooner or later, i think the NFL is going to start to lean on them about a new stadium.

 

I love the Ralph, but what is it now, the 3rd or 4th oldest stadium in the League?

[please stop the pain]

Speaking only for myself, I am appalled that the government can take any percentage of what I leave to my heirs. I suppose they would be ENTITLED to my amassed wealth as I would be giving it to them. I don't recall making plans to leave any portion of my estate to the government to re-distribute as they see fit.

In regards to the Bills, I thought the comment about Ralph being an intelligent businessman is probably the most accurate. He probably has made plans and is most likely updating them regularly. I would guess that he is prioritizing the needs of his family. I hope that he also recognizes the emotional investment (and monetary) of this region and continues to work to have a plan that includes keeping the Bills in Buffalo. Pretty much everything is supposition until Ralph reveals his plan. Who knows, he may be continuing to work on this to meet his goals on a regular basis.

 

Hopefully Ralph's needs and my perception of what I need him to do will be the same

[BillsNYC]

There was somebody watching the game online this Sunday (not me cough) and right after the game ended, the guy switched to audio of somebody reporting on the Bills....may have been Coach Sal? They said that very recently, and NFL source outside of the Bills said the Bills ownership is stable and there is a succession plan in place with Wilson's "Heirs"....and he said its the first time he heard that and is a recent development. He said "heir" was the key word. The guy cut the stream in the middle of it and couldn't find it anywhere to keep listening. Anybody else hear this?

[zazie]

Speaking only for myself, I am appalled that the government can take any percentage of what I leave to my heirs. I suppose they would be ENTITLED to my amassed wealth as I would be giving it to them. I don't recall making plans to leave any portion of my estate to the government to re-distribute as they see fit.

In regards to the Bills, I thought the comment about Ralph being an intelligent businessman is probably the most accurate. He probably has made plans and is most likely updating them regularly. I would guess that he is prioritizing the needs of his family. I hope that he also recognizes the emotional investment (and monetary) of this region and continues to work to have a plan that includes keeping the Bills in Buffalo. Pretty much everything is supposition until Ralph reveals his plan. Who knows, he may be continuing to work on this to meet his goals on a regular basis.

 

Hopefully Ralph's needs and my perception of what I need him to do will be the same

Probably up to a certain amount you are right. Even the first ten million should not be inheritance taxed.

 

But after that it is completely appropriate to move money back into the public sphere and out of these private trusts for people whose families have not worked for many generations. They will still have yachts, you dont have to cry for them.

 

But I agree, money earned in your own lifetime should be disposable how you wish it to be as long as it in not an a grossly obscene amount.

 

Bill Gates has it about right, said he was giving 10mill to each child, the rest to charity.

 

I think that RW has tit tough though because they will assess the value of his estate and the major asset is the team. So his heirs will be taxed on half the assessed cash value of the team, and either need to take out an expensive loan to fninance that debt, or sell the team and pay the taxes. That is what makes it next to impossible for him to just give the kids the team.

[K Gun Special]

Probably up to a certain amount you are right. Even the first ten million should not be inheritance taxed.

 

But after that it is completely appropriate to move money back into the public sphere and out of these private trusts for people whose families have not worked for many generations. They will still have yachts, you dont have to cry for them.

 

But I agree, money earned in your own lifetime should be disposable how you wish it to be as long as it in not an a grossly obscene amount.

 

Bill Gates has it about right, said he was giving 10mill to each child, the rest to charity.

 

I think that RW has tit tough though because they will assess the value of his estate and the major asset is the team. So his heirs will be taxed on half the assessed cash value of the team, and either need to take out an expensive loan to fninance that debt, or sell the team and pay the taxes. That is what makes it next to impossible for him to just give the kids the team.

 

 

Its my understanding the shares of the team are held in trust and pass to his wife and kids upon his death. He wouldnt give it to them outright and the majority of tax implications are avoided, at least until one of them sells their share then im not so sure the implcations but i dont think they get assessed the full capital gains tax.

[zazie]

Its my understanding the shares of the team are held in trust and pass to his wife and kids upon his death. He wouldnt give it to them outright and the majority of tax implications are avoided, at least until one of them sells their share then im not so sure the implcations but i dont think they get assessed the full capital gains tax.

Pretty sure they will get dinged; they should do, anyway.

[John Adams]

Bill Gates has it about right, said he was giving 10mill to each child, the rest to charity.

 

I fail to see how you like this approach AND also like the government's taking Gates's money. This is the problem. If Gates is worth 30B, he's not leaving 30B to chairty, where it would do a lot of good. He's leaving 20B to charity. The other 10 is going to the government where it will put gas in someone at the dept of transportation's Chevy, build a missile, buy paper, etc.

 

The money is his. He paid taxes in the range of 50% on it already. Why should him ceasing breathing entitle the government to dispose of his property when he could give it all to charity? Or none to charity? Imagine that when you Zazie die, all you have as an asset is a family home where your kids grew up and have all their memories of groiwng up. You can't give that to your kids though, without giving them a bill to pay the 30% estate taxes on the house. Poof, away goes your family home.

 

The estate tax is a money grab, effectively taxing the money you earned and saved in your lifetime at your tax rate as you earned it (say 35%) and another 30% on top of it. It's abhorrent.

[zazie]

I fail to see how you like this approach AND also like the government's taking Gates's money. This is the problem. If Gates is worth 30B, he's not leaving 30B to chairty, where it would do a lot of good. He's leaving 20B to charity. The other 10 is going to the government where it will put gas in someone at the dept of transportation's Chevy, build a missile, buy paper, etc.

 

The money is his. He paid taxes in the range of 50% on it already. Why should him ceasing breathing entitle the government to dispose of his property when he could give it all to charity? Or none to charity? Imagine that when you Zazie die, all you have as an asset is a family home where your kids grew up and have all their memories of groiwng up. You can't give that to your kids though, without giving them a bill to pay the 30% estate taxes on the house. Poof, away goes your family home.

 

The estate tax is a money grab, effectively taxing the money you earned and saved in your lifetime at your tax rate as you earned it (say 35%) and another 30% on top of it. It's abhorrent.

I guess thats where I said the first 10 million should be exempt from any inheritance tax....

 

Still dont see why some families should be eternally rich and hoarding that money forever.

 

While you can argue that the money going to the government is not being spent how we would like (certainly true, 100%) it IS being spent and when the gov buys gas or buys cars or builds missiles, the money is spread out among people and the economy.

 

I want people to keep 100% of what they have but only up to a certain, high, amount.

 

If you are going to argue that RWs children will need to sell the family manor in order to pay estate taxes.....

 

That they may need to sell a 1 billion dorllar football franchise does not seem to me to be out of line or societal expectations.

[Doc]

I guess thats where I said the first 10 million should be exempt from any inheritance tax....

 

Still dont see why some families should be eternally rich and hoarding that money forever.

 

While you can argue that the money going to the government is not being spent how we would like (certainly true, 100%) it IS being spent and when the gov buys gas or buys cars or builds missiles, the money is spread out among people and the economy.

 

I want people to keep 100% of what they have but only up to a certain, high, amount.

 

If you are going to argue that RWs children will need to sell the family manor in order to pay estate taxes.....

 

That they may need to sell a 1 billion dorllar football franchise does not seem to me to be out of line or societal expectations.

You really think the (majority of the) money spent by the government is "spread out among the people?"