Thurman#1 Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform...aspx?id=4275259 And they might even put Trent on IR, since he's apparently out for the year, breaking the all-time record. Our franchise's two highest years of all-time in terms of having to put guys on IR are this year and the year before last. Sorry, you coincidence fans, but this is happening for a reason. I'm sure that our FO realizes at this point, and that we'll have a new guy next year. But injuries have had a major part in destroying two seasons for us. Never mind whether we would have been any good, but if we had been able to keep our original o-line together and at least get them all a lot of reps together, we could have at east said that in one respect, the season was building towards something. Yeah, you can't blame anybody for the freak injuries like Wood's. But for knee injuries, concussions, and the great majority of all NFL injuries, all of them absolutely CAN be greatly reduced by exercise and conditioning and equipment choices (Mandate the Riddell Revolution or the other helmets with anti-concussion features - yeah, I know that policy now is that players can choose - CHANGE THAT!!) Get Rusty back, or at least get one of the highest quality guys in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthICE Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 We need to clean house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 The best athletes are athletic enough to avoid injuries more so than others. We have terrible athletes (by NFL standards) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Mom Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 How can a S&T coach help with concussions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelloNewman Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 bad conditioning=tired players=tired players getting hurt + small players+club jauron+ no hitting in practice+bad conditioning+no streching= injuries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninFl Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 The best athletes are athletic enough to avoid injuries more so than others. We have terrible athletes (by NFL standards) I'm not buying that. The best athletes often are among the players who keep themselves in the best shape, so it appears that what you said is the case. But in reality, there are a lot of average players who have long careers partially because they have less injuries, because they keep themselves in great shape. Some teams demand that all their players stay in the best shape possible and some (like the Bills) do not. I agree with those who state that this influences how many major injuries a team averages per season. One ugly, injury prone season can happen to any team. But the Bills have shown a trend of a lot of major injuries during all of Jauron's years here. Therefore, I believe the strength and conditioning program has been a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 This thread and everyone calling for a new Strength and Conditioning Coach are !@#$ing retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 The best athletes are athletic enough to avoid injuries more so than others. We have terrible athletes (by NFL standards) Are you kidding? Getting hit hard and from weird angles has nothing to do with athleticism. NFL players have to throw themselves into collisions, have to cut suddenly at times when someone might hit them ... athleticism has nothing to do with it. Takeo Spikes was one of the most athletic men in the league. So was Sam Cowart. There are a million more examples. You need a state of the art strength and conditioning staff. And we haven't got one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 How can a S&T coach help with concussions? First, the better shape your neck is in, the fewer concussions you will have. Secondly, players who wear the Riddell Revolution helmet or the Shutt DNA helmet get fewer concussions. Why does the strength staff mandate these helmets? They look a bit uncool, so players tend to avoid them. MANDATE those helmets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 bad conditioning=tired players=tired players getting hurt+ small players+club jauron+ no hitting in practice+bad conditioning+no streching= injuries The "no hitting in practice" thing has no basis in fact. There has never been proof or even any indication that that affects injuries. But you're dead on when you say that bad conditioning produces players getting hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 This thread and everyone calling for a new Strength and Conditioning Coach are !@#$ing retarded. Piercing logic there. You really made your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Piercing logic there. You really made your point. So piercing you chose not to provide any evidence to refute it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Rusty Jones is now the most overrated man in the history of the Buffalo Bills. Not that he wasn't a good strength coach, but he wasn't some godlike genius either, who had completely solved the problem of football injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbzh2 Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I'll bet most of the gym rats out there know as much as the gym rat we have as the S&T coach now. We need a REAL pro to help these guys get in and STAY in shape throughout the WHOLE year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Rusty Jones is now the most overrated man in the history of the Buffalo Bills. Not that he wasn't a good strength coach, but he wasn't some godlike genius either, who had completely solved the problem of football injuries. i know. i think he must have 4 or 5 screen names on this site. "strength and conditioning" is not rocket surgery. i'm sure rusty was very good at what he did, but his departure is not the reason we're always hurt. our guys are either smallish and/or too unathletic to stay out of trouble. i know big guys get hurt and great athletes get hurt too, but most big good athletes get hurt less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnychemo Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Coaching is also an issue, as poor technique contributes to injuries as well. You won't avoid all injuries, but properly conditioned athletes with sound technique are less likely to get injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 So piercing you chose not to provide any evidence to refute it? Nope. When somebody says "Sucks" I don't feel a need to refute it. It's not quite specific enough to deserve refutation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 i know. i think he must have 4 or 5 screen names on this site. "strength and conditioning" is not rocket surgery. i'm sure rusty was very good at what he did, but his departure is not the reason we're always hurt. our guys are either smallish and/or too unathletic to stay out of trouble. i know big guys get hurt and great athletes get hurt too, but most big good athletes get hurt less. Funny, Chicago runs the same defense we do, with lots of small guys, and they run it outside in the winter like us. Yet they only have eight guys on IR. What's the name of their strength and conditioning coach again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I read that both Edwards and McGee were placed on IR and Hamndan was resigned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Are you kidding? Getting hit hard and from weird angles has nothing to do with athleticism. NFL players have to throw themselves into collisions, have to cut suddenly at times when someone might hit them ... athleticism has nothing to do with it. Takeo Spikes was one of the most athletic men in the league. So was Sam Cowart. There are a million more examples. You need a state of the art strength and conditioning staff. And we haven't got one. You are right, I am so dumb. There is no way that being quicker or having more nimble feet wouldnt allow one to say avoid something one saw come in a better fashion. There is no way that you or I (two people much less athletic than any NFL field player) could possibly be more injury prone than say a Takeo Spikes - because athleticsm has nothign to do with it after all. I guess it is no coincidence that the best athletes are in the best shape, and the ones in best shape are injured less.There is no way a RB with great balance would avoid being put in awkward situation more so than a back with worse balence, or maybe a more elusive back could avoid more direct hits from opponents? There is no way to say - prevent Eric Woods injury - because he was just unlucky, yet maybe if the rest of our line could say "block" there is potential that maybe NO ONE WOULD HAVE ROLLED ON HIS LEG BECAUSE SAID PLAYER WAS BLOCKED/NOT ROLLING ON THE GROUND AND ONTO HIS LEG. I dont recal who let that big monster of a man tackle Fitz and break Woods leg, but there is no way in hell that a better athlete may - just may - have been able to block him, because injuries are jsut so freak there is no way to prevent it. There is furthermore no posssible way that a QB who can avoid the rush with movement in the pocket, hit is hot reads, and generally avoid getting hit (you know, the things that make a QB a good QB) would help keep him off the injured list. I bet its just a stroke of luck that Brett Favre and the Manning Brothers never miss a game - maybe they have that mutation Wolverine does? Man, none of those situations have ever happened in football and havent hurt our team at all this last pitiful decade. Injuries are as random as raindrops and absolutely none of it should ever fall on the players shoulders EVER!!!!!!!!!!! I am so dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 You can't blame Edwards' injury to anyone except that terrible offensive line. He played 3 plays and the line didn't even attempt to block on two of the plays. Almost like they intentionally let the defense in to maul Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Nope. When somebody says "Sucks" I don't feel a need to refute it. It's not quite specific enough to deserve refutation. I said "retarded," retard. And I provided a link to a post of mine which is very specific. Perhaps you should follow it. Learn something without being the little d-bag that makes the learned repeat themselves. Then again you started this thread, so evidently you need things repeated multiple times: LINK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFITZ1 Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Rusty Jones is now the most overrated man in the history of the Buffalo Bills. Not that he wasn't a good strength coach, but he wasn't some godlike genius either, who had completely solved the problem of football injuries. The number of top players who have bought into Rusty's methods and regimen is testimony that he was a "cog in the wheel" in the Bills success, and the success of other players (Urlacher was mentioned). What we're trying to say is Rusty's program improved the players performance, not only to play better, but be less injury prone (haven't some comments said that the better players get injured less, well if teh S&C program makes you a better player, it will follow that you will be injured less). Hey, poor S&C is just one of the factors causing this team's decline. Bringing it back to a high level is one of several moves that must be made if the Bills are ever going to be relevant in January (other than spoilers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 AND THERE IT IS, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, A NEW BILLS RECORD!!!!! Byrd goes on IR and we now have 18 on IR, an all-time high for the Buffalo Bills. This is just NOT a coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye Eric Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Goodbye Rusty Jones, Hello broken bones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Gun Special Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I played 4 years in college, one year we had 11 guys out for the season. The next year not one starter missed more than a few snaps. Pretty much the same players too. Same strength coach same exact program Its a rough sport Shhhh happens. you can blame the coach but bones break, muscles tweak- yea theres med research showing stretching does not reduce injury-, and people get knocked out. Doug Mckenney has been sabres strength coach for how long now? did they fire him after the playoffs when all the Dmen were hurt? no.... bc they arent morons and know stuff happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Never mind that John Allaire was Rusty's assistant in Buffalo for three seasons before Jones departed for Chicago. Never mind the fact that they are both credentialed by the same certifying agencies, attend the same seminars and continuing education classes, and that both have received professional awards for their work in the field. Yep. In spite of that I'm convinced Rusty could have prevented the sports hernia injury Byrd received at Oregon if ONLY he had been on the Buffalo staff at the time. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 AND THERE IT IS, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, A NEW BILLS RECORD!!!!! Byrd goes on IR and we now have 18 on IR, an all-time high for the Buffalo Bills. This is just NOT a coincidence. I'm still waiting for you to explain to us all how S and R would have prevented: Mitchell getting rolled. Wood getting rolled. Butler getting rolled. Schouman getting rolled. Edwards getting rolled. An injury Byrd sustained in college. McKelvin's broken bone. I'm also waiting for you to aknowledge the IR moves that were meant to free up roster space in the cases of: Seth McKinney Marcus Buggs Kendall Simmons, Marcus Smith Lydell Sargeant please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please explain what S and R had to do with these 12 IR moves!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 From Tim Graham's most recent chat: Frank P (Mayor's Income, TN) Tim, how much does poor conditioning regimens have to do with teams who experience more-than-average injuries? Tim Graham (4:01 PM) I can't speak on that with any kind of expertise, but I do [know] that Bill Parcells believes strongly in that. Exactly what goes on in the weight room, I'm not sure. But the 2007 [season was] loaded with injuries, and one of the first things Parcells did when he was hired was get rid of the strength and conditioning coaches. ... so we know that "The Big Tuna" puts a lot of emphasis on S&C .... Tim Graham's Chat - scroll down to 4:01 pm GO BILLS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I'm still waiting for you to explain to us all how S and R would have prevented: Mitchell getting rolled. Wood getting rolled. Butler getting rolled. Schouman getting rolled. Edwards getting rolled. An injury Byrd sustained in college. McKelvin's broken bone. I'm also waiting for you to aknowledge the IR moves that were meant to free up roster space in the cases of: Seth McKinney Marcus Buggs Kendall Simmons, Marcus Smith Lydell Sargeant please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please explain what S and R had to do with these 12 IR moves!! Read my previous Post BC If our OL could block all of those injuries could have potentially be prevented. Wood and Butler were both "rolled" by D lineman who easily penetrated the line and threw themselves at the QB. Edwards had no chance and was instantly sacked. If that player was blocked and Edwards had 5 seconds to throw he wouldnt have gotten hit. Better players allow less sacks/pressure which results in less players rolling around on the groud and less of a chance those rolling players roll onto our lineman or injure our QB. I mean really - think about LB for a second. Our LBs are always taking on OL becouse our DL is not very good. So now we have our undersized LBs taking on 300+ lb OL instead of them running free to the 220lb RB. Better DL play helps keep the big hits off the LBs and keeps them healthier. I watched J. Campbell taken out of the game before half time because he was hit too many times. Now if his line was better, or he could hit a hot read better, he wouldnt have taken all those hits and wouldnt have left the game (he did come back... but you get the point) We are injured because we suck, our suckiness could be tied to our strength and/or conditioning. It is no mystery that in shape players perform better than out of shape players -- I believe it is all connected. Also we have no depth, so an injury hits us a lot harder than a team with good depth - which leads to more sucky play and even more injuries. I agree 100% that a lot of the IRs are for roster spots - like Byrds too I think. I thought Buggs tore an ACL though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 How can a S&T coach help with concussions? And knee injuries? was he supposed to jump in front of the player who hit brad butler's knee and bent it in the wrong direction? If it were muscle tears and pulls keeping players out I would agree, but there's not much you can do to prevent sprained ankles and torn ACLs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 bad conditioning=tired players=tired players getting hurt+ small players+club jauron+ no hitting in practice+bad conditioning+no streching= injuries It`s the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Read my previous Post BC If our OL could block all of those injuries could have potentially be prevented. Wood and Butler were both "rolled" by D lineman who easily penetrated the line and threw themselves at the QB. Edwards had no chance and was instantly sacked. If that player was blocked and Edwards had 5 seconds to throw he wouldnt have gotten hit. Better players allow less sacks/pressure which results in less players rolling around on the groud and less of a chance those rolling players roll onto our lineman or injure our QB. I mean really - think about LB for a second. Our LBs are always taking on OL becouse our DL is not very good. So now we have our undersized LBs taking on 300+ lb OL instead of them running free to the 220lb RB. Better DL play helps keep the big hits off the LBs and keeps them healthier. I watched J. Campbell taken out of the game before half time because he was hit too many times. Now if his line was better, or he could hit a hot read better, he wouldnt have taken all those hits and wouldnt have left the game (he did come back... but you get the point) We are injured because we suck, our suckiness could be tied to our strength and/or conditioning. It is no mystery that in shape players perform better than out of shape players -- I believe it is all connected. Also we have no depth, so an injury hits us a lot harder than a team with good depth - which leads to more sucky play and even more injuries. I agree 100% that a lot of the IRs are for roster spots - like Byrds too I think. I thought Buggs tore an ACL though? You couldn't be more wrong about the circumstances under which wood and butler were rolled. Your recollction is fabrication, at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 I'm still waiting for you to explain to us all how S and R would have prevented: Mitchell getting rolled. Wood getting rolled. Butler getting rolled. Schouman getting rolled. Edwards getting rolled. An injury Byrd sustained in college. McKelvin's broken bone. I'm also waiting for you to aknowledge the IR moves that were meant to free up roster space in the cases of: Seth McKinney Marcus Buggs Kendall Simmons, Marcus Smith Lydell Sargeant please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please explain what S and R had to do with these 12 IR moves!! If you want me to explain something, you have to ask me. This is the first time you have asked me. So since you asked me so kindly, I'll be glad to explain it to you. First, let's say you're right and those are all complete flukes. What will that have proved? Did I ever say that every player put on I.R. has had a preventable injury? No, I did not, nor did anyone. So your argument's whole base is horrendously flawed. But the fact is that there is no way you can say that they were all complete flukes. Just no way. You saw the Aaron Rodgers play a couple of weeks ago where he got his leg bent back. Same type of thing as the hits that injured some of our guys. Yet he was OK. Why? Well, there's no way to tell exactly, but the most likely reasons are position, angle of the hit and yes, the kind of shape Rodgers' leg was in. Because those stabilizing muscles are the last line of defense for knees and legs, and they can save a leg in a very improbable situation indeed. Can you say for sure that if those players, Mitchell, Wood, Butler, Schoumann, Edwards and McKelvin had been handled better by the S&C staff that none of them could have been prevented? Yeah, you could, but that wouldn't make it true. It's very possible indeed that one or more could have been prevented. We'll never know. What we absolutely WILL know, though, is that the Bears somehow don't have anywhere near as many guys having that type of injury as we do. And that that's a consistent pattern over three years. That is very strong evidence indeed. Bills on IR in 2007: 17 Bears on IR in 2007: 14 Bills on IR in 2008: 12 Bears on IR in 2008: 8 Bills on IR in 2009: 18 Bears on IR in 2009: 8 Bills average IRs per year = 15.66 Bears average IRs per year = 10 The Bills average slightly more than 50% more players on IR. As for Jairus Byrd's injury, it developed out of his surgery. So conditioning, rest, practice time, etc. were most likely major factors. And that's right in S&C's wheelhouse. Now, there is one part of your post that just makes no sense. I'll quote it here, and maybe you can explain what you mean. You said: "I'm also waiting for you to aknowledge the IR moves that were meant to free up roster space in the cases of: Seth McKinney Marcus Buggs Kendall Simmons, Marcus Smith Lydell Sargeant" Do you not get the concept of IR? The Bills have 18 guys on IR. All 18 of them were put on IR to free up roster space. That is the purpose of IR. When you have guys who are injured and will be injured for all of the season or a very large portion of the season, you put them on IR so that you can fill up the roster spaces. This makes for more equal competition between teams with better S&C staffs, like the Bears and worse S&C staffs, like us. If there were no IR, the Bears would have, this year, ten more guys on the field. There is nothing to explain here. All guys put on IR are put there to free up roster space. Are you trying to make some kind of point here? If you are, what is it? Oh, and by the way, all those "pleases" really made you look cool, you know, like DeNiro and Pacino in Heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 I played 4 years in college, one year we had 11 guys out for the season. The next year not one starter missed more than a few snaps. Pretty much the same players too. Same strength coach same exact program Its a rough sport Shhhh happens. you can blame the coach but bones break, muscles tweak- yea theres med research showing stretching does not reduce injury-, and people get knocked out. Doug Mckenney has been sabres strength coach for how long now? did they fire him after the playoffs when all the Dmen were hurt? no.... bc they arent morons and know stuff happens. Yup, it's a rough sport and injuries are unpredictable. That's why I only raised it as a question, a possibility, in 2007. But when the pattern lasts for 3 years, it's not coincidence anymore, it's a pattern. And patterns repeat themselves till you eliminate the causes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 Never mind that John Allaire was Rusty's assistant in Buffalo for three seasons before Jones departed for Chicago. Never mind the fact that they are both credentialed by the same certifying agencies, attend the same seminars and continuing education classes, and that both have received professional awards for their work in the field. Yep. In spite of that I'm convinced Rusty could have prevented the sports hernia injury Byrd received at Oregon if ONLY he had been on the Buffalo staff at the time. GO BILLS!!! Gosh, Allaire was Rusty's assistant? I had no idea. Obviously that means that Allaire is as good as Rusty. You know, just the way that Eric Mangini, Charlie Weis and Romeo Crennel, Bill Belichick's ex-assistants, are just as good as he is. And Byrd is NOT out with the sports hernia. He is out with a groin injury. http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/fo...l/79999042.html Groin injuries are extremely preventable. Yes, this one is somehow related to the surgery he had, but it is likely that if Byrd had been better rehabilitated, done more stretching and perhaps kept on the sideline for an extra week or so, that this would never have happened. That is EXACTLY what a good S&C staff should have been successfully preventing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 From Tim Graham's most recent chat: ... so we know that "The Big Tuna" puts a lot of emphasis on S&C .... Tim Graham's Chat - scroll down to 4:01 pm GO BILLS! Nice find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeBillsDrive Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 But injuries have had a major part in destroying two seasons for us. Add to that a lack of depth once the injuries hit. Keith Ellison would be a backup Linebacker on the Dolphins, Pats, and Jets. In Buffalo, he's a starter. Once he goes down, the Bills have even lower tier players to replace Ellison. So much so that they have to convert Bryan Scott into a Linebacker. Other teams suffer injuries but have better depth than the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 Add to that a lack of depth once the injuries hit. Keith Ellison would be a backup Linebacker on the Dolphins, Pats, and Jets. In Buffalo, he's a starter. Once he goes down, the Bills have even lower tier players to replace Ellison. So much so that they have to convert Bryan Scott into a Linebacker. Other teams suffer injuries but have better depth than the Bills. Yeah, no question. But other teams also suffer fewer injuries than the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonian-at-Heart Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 How can a S&T coach help with concussions? Foot curls will not only strengthen ankles, but also while your thinking "why am I doing ankle curls" it strengthens your brain to think, therefor less concussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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