The O-line isn't always to blame

[PushthePile]

I can't believe how many times I've read posts stating that Manning or Brady couldn't get it done behind this o-line. I firmly believe that is inherently false. IMO, if you put Manning on the Bills, we are in contention for the playoffs still (provided DJ wasn't the coach). I'd be willing to bet he even puts up similar to better numbers here.

 

I'm not discounting the problems this o-line has. The tackles are terrible and the unit is undisciplined. Top notch QBs can overcome these problems with superior skill sets, though. The type of skills our QBs most cetainly don't have. The best QBs in this league have incredible time clocks in their heads and they can feel pressure coming. Some of the best QBs in this league have dealt with lines as bad as ours and made it work. I see Rothlisburger do it all the time.

 

My point is yes the line sucks but a better than average QB could have made it work this year.

 

Tom Brady was sacked 21 times in 2007.

Matt Cassel was sacked 47 times in 2008.

Tom Brady has been sacked 12 times so far this year.

 

Our QBs are more like Cassel.

[Guest dog14787]

I can't believe how many times I've read posts stating that Manning or Brady couldn't get it done behind this o-line. I firmly believe that is inherently false. IMO, if you put Manning on the Bills, we are in contention for the playoffs still (provided DJ wasn't the coach). I'd be willing to bet he even puts up similar to better numbers here.

 

I'm not discounting the problems this o-line has. The tackles are terrible and the unit is undisciplined. Top notch QBs can overcome these problems with superior skill sets, though. The type of skills our QBs most cetainly don't have. The best QBs in this league have incredible time clocks in their heads and they can feel pressure coming. Some of the best QBs in this league have dealt with lines as bad as ours and made it work. I see Rothlisburger do it all the time.

 

My point is yes the line sucks but a better than average QB could have made it work this year.

 

Tom Brady was sacked 21 times in 2007.

Matt Cassel was sacked 47 times in 2008.

Tom Brady has been sacked 12 times so far this year.

 

Our QBs are more like Cassel.

 

 

Not liking TE I can understand Push, but not realizing the importance of good O-line play and how it impacts the whole offense run and pass doesn't make any sense.

 

Take Aaron Rodgers for example, great QB but 9 games in and if I'm looking at it correctly Green bay would not make the playoffs if the season ended now. We are also talking about a great scrambling QB in Aaron Rodgers.

 

Now if Aaron Rodgers struggles behind a bad O-line doesn't that tell you something Push?

[PushthePile]

Not liking TE I can understand Push, but not realizing the importance of good O-line play and how it impacts the whole offense run and pass doesn't make any sense.

 

Take Aaron Rodgers for example, great QB but 9 games in and if I'm looking at it correctly Green bay would not make the playoffs if the season ended now. We are also talking about a great scrambling QB in Aaron Rodgers.

 

Now if Aaron Rodgers struggles behind a bad O-line doesn't that tell you something Push?

First off Aaron Rodgers is having a fantastic season despite his o-line. Aaron Rodgers has the fourth highest Qb rating behind Manning. He has also accounted for as many TDs as Manning with less interceptions. The Packers have problems everywhere including a horrid defense that has struggled with the 3-4.

 

The o-line is extremely important to a team. I would never underestimate it's value. This line is bad Dog but a great QB can stop the bleeding.

[gobillsinytown]

First off Aaron Rodgers is having a fantastic season despite his o-line. Aaron Rodgers has the fourth highest Qb rating behind Manning. He has also accounted for as many TDs as Manning with less interceptions. The Packers have problems everywhere including a horrid defense that has struggled with the 3-4.

 

The o-line is extremely important to a team. I would never underestimate it's value. This line is bad Dog but a great QB can stop the bleeding.

 

You're right that the O-Line isn't everything, but it's a critical piece. IMO the two most critical pieces are O-Line and defensive front seven. You build from there. If you put a mediocre QB behind a good line you can go pretty far, but not all the way. The same with putting a great QB behind a bad line. You have to have both to consistently contend every year.

[Guest dog14787]

First off Aaron Rodgers is having a fantastic season despite his o-line. Aaron Rodgers has the fourth highest Qb rating behind Manning. He has also accounted for as many TDs as Manning with less interceptions. The Packers have problems everywhere including a horrid defense that has struggled with the 3-4.

 

The o-line is extremely important to a team. I would never underestimate it's value. This line is bad Dog but a great QB can stop the bleeding.

 

 

A sub par O-line gets your QB injured, and without proper protection Aaron Rodgers is playing on borrowed time.

[PushthePile]

You're right that the O-Line isn't everything, but it's a critical piece. IMO the two most critical pieces are O-Line and defensive front seven. You build from there. If you put a mediocre QB behind a good line you can go pretty far, but not all the way. The same with putting a great QB behind a bad line. You have to have both to consistently contend every year.

I almost completely agree. I still firmly believe QB is at the top of the rung of importance. The lines are tied for a close second. A team should never pass up a chance to get a franchise QB. Ideally you would build from the lines out and have a great situation for QB to operate but as we have seen here for a decade, great QBs are tough to find. Can't miss an opportunity if it presents itself.

 

With all that being said, I'm not in love with any of the QB prosepects coming out this year. I'm hoping we go OL, DL, or MLB first.

[PushthePile]

A sub par O-line gets your QB injured, and without proper protection Aaron Rodgers is playing on borrowed time.

I wholeheartedly agree with that Dog. I was just commenting on the prospects of a Brady or Manning type QB failing to produce on this team.

[Guest dog14787]

I wholeheartedly agree with that Dog. I was just commenting on the prospects of a Brady or Manning type QB failing to produce on this team.

 

 

With our brilliant coaching and FO work Push, along with a bad O-line, do you honestly believe Brady or Manning could have anywhere near the success they have had playing under names like Bill Polian or Bill belicheat.

 

The Colts have the best O-line in the NFL, you do realize that don't you.

[The Big Cat]

With our brilliant coaching and FO work Push, along with a bad O-line, do you honestly believe Brady or Manning could have anywhere near the success they have had playing under names like Bill Polian or Bill belicheat.

 

The Colts have the best O-line in the NFL, you do realize that don't you.

 

He never said they'd be as good.

 

But no doubt in my mind, if Manning was our quarterback we'd be 10-6, easy.

[gobillsinytown]

I almost completely agree. I still firmly believe QB is at the top of the rung of importance. The lines are tied for a close second. A team should never pass up a chance to get a franchise QB. Ideally you would build from the lines out and have a great situation for QB to operate but as we have seen here for a decade, great QBs are tough to find. Can't miss an opportunity if it presents itself.

 

With all that being said, I'm not in love with any of the QB prosepects coming out this year. I'm hoping we go OL, DL, or MLB first.

 

I thought Bradford might have been a good pick but not with that shoulder. That's always been the risk with draftig a QB in the first round. You can get Peyton Manning..........or Jemarcus Russel.

[PushthePile]

With our brilliant coaching and FO work Push, along with a bad O-line, do you honestly believe Brady or Manning could have anywhere near the success they have had playing behind names like Bill Polian or Bill belicheat.

 

The Colts have the best O-line in the NFL, you do realize that don't you.

The Colts o-line is good but Manning is great. How about the Pats stats?

Brady 21 sacks in 2007

Cassel 47 sacks in 2008

Brady 12 sacks so far in 2009

 

A good QB makes intelligent reads on defenses and gets the ball out quickly. A great QB cuts down on the sacks and turnovers.

 

Manning and Brady would have made a huge difference this year. DJ would have still hurt the team but not as blatantly. Now if you replace DJ with a competent coach and put Manning on this team? Look out my friend. We haven't seen good QB play in so long. I honestly believe some of us have forgotten how it looks.

[Guest dog14787]

He never said they'd be as good.

 

But no doubt in my mind, if Manning was our quarterback we'd be 10-6, easy.

 

 

If I was a new GM just coming into Buffalo and just picked up Peyton Manning via FA there is no way in hell I let him play behind this O-line. I'm not sure what Manning's exact salary is but anyone in there right mind is going to protect their investment which means a large expense goes out to an experienced O-line.

[zonabb]

I also think that if a QB comes in as a rookie or with little experience and has a poor line from the outset, his development is stunted and he's on too short a leash to grow and get better. A good OL can go a long way in getting a QB confidence and experience. Once they get that, I agree, they can excel. I think Rodgers had a very good line last year and the experience he had last year was a major help. What Bills QB, in all fairness, had an OL you'd consider even a top 25?!

 

I think though its unfair to compare anyone to Manning. The guy is as intelligent a player (football wise) as you'll see so he has the amazing ability to put the team in better situations and account for issue from the line of scrimmage.

[Guest dog14787]

I also think that if a QB comes in as a rookie or with little experience and has a poor line from the outset, his development is stunted and he's on too short a leash to grow and get better. A good OL can go a long way in getting a QB confidence and experience. Once they get that, I agree, they can excel. I think Rodgers had a very good line last year and the experience he had last year was a major help. What Bills QB, in all fairness, had an OL you'd consider even a top 25?!

 

I think though its unfair to compare anyone to Manning. The guy is as intelligent a player (football wise) as you'll see so he has the amazing ability to put the team in better situations and account for issue from the line of scrimmage.

 

 

Good insight

[PushthePile]

If I was a new GM just coming into Buffalo and just picked up Peyton Manning via FA there is no way in hell I let him play behind this O-line. I'm not sure what Manning's exact salary is but anyone in there right mind is going to protect their investment which means a large expense goes out to an experienced O-line.

I understand your feelings towards our o-line. I agree that it is a major weakness right now.

 

However, I don't understand how an intelligent poster like yourself can't envision how a guy like Manning protects himself.

Is it your vested interest in providing Edwards with an excuse? This line is bad but not all-time bad. The NFL has about half a dozen guys who get it done with this line. I bet another half dozen are average to solid here.

[PushthePile]

I also think that if a QB comes in as a rookie or with little experience and has a poor line from the outset, his development is stunted and he's on too short a leash to grow and get better. A good OL can go a long way in getting a QB confidence and experience. Once they get that, I agree, they can excel. I think Rodgers had a very good line last year and the experience he had last year was a major help. What Bills QB, in all fairness, had an OL you'd consider even a top 25?!

 

I think though its unfair to compare anyone to Manning. The guy is as intelligent a player (football wise) as you'll see so he has the amazing ability to put the team in better situations and account for issue from the line of scrimmage.

I can appreciate the value of a good o-line for a rookie QB. Ideally a rookie QB doesn't play. Let's face it though, **** happens and ideal situations are rare. A good QB makes it work in all situations.

 

Rivers

Manning (both of them)

Brady

Mcnabb

Rothlisburger

Brees

Palmer

Rodgers

Favre

Flacco

Warner

Ryan ..........they all make this team very competitive.

 

Schaub

Cutler

Pennington

Orton

Romo

Hasselback ......... they would all make this team better.

[Guest dog14787]

I understand your feelings towards our o-line. I agree that it is a major weakness right now.

 

However, I don't understand how an intelligent poster like yourself can't envision how a guy like Manning protects himself.

Is it your vested interest in providing Edwards with an excuse? This line is bad but not all-time bad. The NFL has about half a dozen guys who get it done with this line. I bet another half dozen are average to solid here.

 

 

A good O-line is important for the big names like the Brady's and Manning's to win championships. Could they succeed to a lesser degree with a sub par O-line, I imagine they could, but why would you even want to and what kind of point are you trying to make with an argument like that anyway.

[PushthePile]

A good O-line is important for the big names like the Brady's and Manning's to win championships. Could they succeed to a lesser degree with a sub par O-line, I imagine they could, but why would you even want to and what kind of point are you trying to make with an argument like that anyway.

You and others have made our offensive line situation the number one reason our offense is awful. This simply is not the case. After reading over and over that all QBs would fail behind this line, I thought I'd throw my two cents in. The number one problem this season has been coaching and QB play.

 

The Bills have identified this and have made the proper moves, finally. This team can make plays on offense despite the line troubles but it needs to be upgraded for sure.

[dave mcbride]

I can't believe how many times I've read posts stating that Manning or Brady couldn't get it done behind this o-line. I firmly believe that is inherently false. IMO, if you put Manning on the Bills, we are in contention for the playoffs still (provided DJ wasn't the coach). I'd be willing to bet he even puts up similar to better numbers here.

 

I'm not discounting the problems this o-line has. The tackles are terrible and the unit is undisciplined. Top notch QBs can overcome these problems with superior skill sets, though. The type of skills our QBs most cetainly don't have. The best QBs in this league have incredible time clocks in their heads and they can feel pressure coming. Some of the best QBs in this league have dealt with lines as bad as ours and made it work. I see Rothlisburger do it all the time.

 

My point is yes the line sucks but a better than average QB could have made it work this year.

 

Tom Brady was sacked 21 times in 2007.

Matt Cassel was sacked 47 times in 2008.

Tom Brady has been sacked 12 times so far this year.

 

Our QBs are more like Cassel.

I completely agree. You think that Favre gets sacked as much as Rodgers behind that line in GB? Rodgers is Rob Johnson mach II.

[Guest dog14787]

You and others have made our offensive line situation the number one reason our offense is awful. This simply is not the case. After reading over and over that all QBs would fail behind this line, I thought I'd throw my two cents in. The number one problem this season has been coaching and QB play.

 

The Bills have identified this and have made the proper moves, finally. This team can make plays on offense despite the line troubles but it needs to be upgraded for sure.

 

Everything starts up front, and thats not a cliche Push , its a fact...