BillsVet
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I kinda feel as though the spread of this type of mindset ( if occurring in the minds of the players) WILL result in a domino effect, but if the will of the players is strong they should be able to absorb the change and work with it. With that said, for one player to be in a position to affect an entire team in this way speaks to the need for change in the way the NFL does it's contracts.
Superior play at LT is almost a necessity, it's not the financial landscape, it's the specialization of the offensive and defensive line positions.
Have you actually been to practice and know for a fact Walker and Chambers are doing poorly? I don't believe it. I think it's the wishful thinking of Chicken Little fans that hope the sky falls on this franchise.As for who has the leverage, I assure you it's the Bills. They will take their chances playing without Peters. What's Peters have? He has 3 years left on a contract. If he fails to report by August 8, then this season doesn't count. He still owes the Bills three years. He can sit out ten years and he will still owe the Bills 3 years, but he will owe the Bills millions in fines. In the meantime, what does all this sitting do for his value as an "elite" left tackle? This guy just came off surgery and he won't let his team take a look at him? Is he hiding something?
Peters may still be injured and he's trying to scam the Bills into a fat contract with a big guarantee. All I can say is I'm glad we have people like Brandon running the Bills, not some of the panic-stricken pansies that wet their drawers when a players makes a threat. Peters is screwing himself. The Bills are 100% in the right here. If Peters wants a new deal...just show up. That's why I think he's still injured.
PTR
I've been to practice, today as a matter of fact. And I noted in my previous post that it was Walker's first day at LT so I didn't expect to see him dominate. The conclusion any knowledgeable fan can reach is that Walker isn't the type of player who succeeds at the most demanding physical position on the OL. Chambers is certainly not starting grade, and this holdout has the potential to significantly affect the success of the entire offense. Offenses take time to gel, and this training camp is no different. The defense is rounding into form, and has given the offense problems. That said, I think missing their best OL is a bigger problem than most fans realize.
Peters' issues with the front office and vice versa do not fit into the minds of blue collar fans like most of us here. Most fans see it as pure greed and the inability of a player to fulfill a contract. It's far more than that, and in the business of pro football, players know they've got a small window. For the fortunate few who have superior talent, it can be taken away at any moment. I think Peters oughta report, but he's not, and everyone knows why.
Despite what anyone says, Peters is healthy. It doesn't take 5 months to come back from a hernia, and the idea he's hurt and hiding in the shadows at home is the biggest conspiracy theory I've heard in a long time.
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Anyone who's been to practice and watched Langston Walker at LT today knows Peters' leverage grows with each day. Walker's athleticism is a shred of what Peters offers and will not neutralize edge rushers. It's understood this was Walker's first full day at LT, but his lateral movement isn't there for a OLT.
There is an amazing domino effect which taking place, with Walker now changing positions and a career backup inserted at RT. I think the team's frustration is born out of the realization that they cannot yield to the new deal demands for principle (and pride) reasons, yet not doing so means their team (at least on offense) will not nearly be as successful.
The team may need to relent sooner than they imagined, although maybe it'll take a few pre-season games to impress on fans what the coaching staff knows right now: that Walker's move to LT will be a rough transition for him, the QB, and the entire offense.
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Are him and Parcells dating or something?
No, but they go shopping together. At the grocery store.
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Could his presence have meant the difference between the Bills going 7-9 and 10-6 and possibly making the playoffs? It never did in the past, and given the state of the Bills' offense, it's highly doubtful.
Two games come to mind in 2006 that NC could have or actually did make a difference in.
The first came at Detroit when Buffalo lost 20-17. McGee covered Roy Williams for three quarters, allowing 9 catches for 140+ yards. DJ and Fewell finally had NC cover Williams in the 4th. RW made only 1 more reception.
The second occurred at NY in Week 14. With Buffalo holding a 14-10 lead, NC intercepted Pennington and returned it for a TD to give Buffalo a 21-10 lead (and big momentum shift) which held.
NC has recorded 5 TD's in 7 pro seasons, and as an earlier poster noted, has repeatedly stopped opponent's top receiver.
NC was a superior CB, and a player who should have been retained in early 2006. He's durable, and compared to the resources allocated to replace him, was a better value. One which received 22M guaranteed and with FA becoming as high priced as it is, will probably being reasonable if all things continue. Then again, when's the last time a highly regarded CB reached the market?
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For what it's worth, I think Clements is one of the best corners in football. But corners are one of the most overrated positions in all of football. How many Super Bowls have Champ Bailey and Clements gone to? This team is much better served paying oline men like Dockery and Walker (and hopefully Peters) than dumping a ton of money to a corner.
CB's, LB's, WR's, RB's, and QB's depend on the lines for success. NC, like any CB in the league, depends on a pass rush. While this is all elementary, some still don't understand this simple facet of football. Neither SF or Buffalo had much of a pass rush while NC was with each team. Same can be said for Champ Bailey, who had a motley crew of DL rushing the passer. They couldn't stop the run either and Denver missed the playoffs.
Certain positions are simply more important than others. The building blocks required for a team's success start with a QB, solid OL, and a pass rush. Everything else is secondary, including CB's. Repeatedly drafting high DB's, RB's, WR's, and LB's is worthless without the guys up front to make them look good. The Bills, since the beginning of Donahoe's time, have repeatedly drafted skill positions, leaving them with gaping holes on the OL and DL. TD, ML, and RB have turned to free agents and risky trades to solve the OL and DL issues. This results in elite CB's not putting up the numbers many want them to. There is no corner in NFL history that can play well without support.
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Arguing in a black and white world that posters like eball and VOR live in is like trying to eat cereal with chopsticks. According to them, anything can be explained with select statistics, team or individual.
Here's one statistic that matters. How many games have Clements and Fletcher missed in the previous six seasons? Out of a combined 192 games, they've been on the field for all of them.
Here's another item: Compare the Bills starting CB situation in 2006 to 2008: In 06 it was McGee and Clements. This year it'll most likely be McGee and either Greer or McKelvin.
Look at the resources Buffalo used to replace NC versus what it would have taken to retain him. NC's cap for the following three seasons is 19.4M combined and would have allowed the Bills flexibility with their first round pick this year. Not to mention he's durable and plays at a very high level. In his wake, the Bills used 3 picks on corners this season, signed a FA in Will James, and doled out a decent sized contract to their first rounder. There can be no doubt that McKelvin was picked to start, either this year or next.
The price to replace NC is not surprisingly closer than most fans realize. Between draft picks, first round size contracts, and FA's, the Bills continue to opt for the cheap-now decision and pay for it in the long term.
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It's a team sport. We don't need to blow our load on just one (apparently small) piece of the puzzle.
Good NFL front offices know what players and which positions are more easily replaceable. It's why clubs like NE, IND, and SD are continually at the top, despite the same cap restrictions that all teams have. These are the ones who draft lower in the first round and come away with talent late into the draft.
Teams are made up generally of a few stars and plenty of supporting talent. Buffalo's young, but players like Peters, Schobel, and Lee Evans are the three most talented players on this team. Guys come and go, but eventually a team must decide which players they'll keep whatever the cost. They're the franchise cornerstones. It's why I think Crowell will hit FA, and Buffalo will find a replacement. He's not a bad player, but LB's can be replaced and Crowell isn't a world-beater. Anyone who follows the Colts knows that Polian lets LB's go and finds studs in the draft to replace them.
Not all front offices are equal and until the current version in Buffalo demonstrates some success, they'll be regarded as below average to poor given the same people have been running the show (minus Donahoe) since 2001. IMO, Brandon is a newcomer to the personnel side of the franchise. All the puff pieces in the world cannot hide whether the FO knows what it's doing and ultimately, what happens on the field determines if they've got the right plan.
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I think Youboty will be on the roster when the season starts. The rooks (either or both Corner and Cox) may be PS guys. ST may be the deciding factor. If one of the rooks become an April guy, then yes I can see us cutting ties with Youboty. Is Cleveland still interested?
Buffalo keeps at most 5 CB's on the roster. Three are for sure-McGee, McKelvin, and Greer. It's too early to tell on Corner and Cox, but DJ likes experience, and even though he's had issues, Will James may be a good bet. I think it comes down to Corner or Cox. I don't see Youboty surviving the finals cuts.
Ko was largely regarded as the steal of the draft. I think he'll pick up where he left off which is a high level. George Wilson is an excellent backup at the position.I'm hoping the Bills will be able to trade him before the final cutdowns. If they can't there is a good chance he'll end up being cut. Maybe the Bills can stash Corner on the practice squad and hope a team comes to need a CB stat and they trade Youboty and move Corner off the practice squad.
I would hope the Bills didn't spend 3 picks on CB's (as SB has pointed out) because they felt the position was good. It's time for Youboty to put up, and I don't see it happening. He's frequently injured, and not grasping the defense. He could not reclaim the job from a former UDFA in Greer, and it's apparent the coaches aren't big on him, hence the 3 picks on CB's. Why would anyone trade for him, with Buffalo all but saying they're not happy with his play by virtue of the draft.
As for Simpson, I don't recall anyone saying he's been the steal of the draft. Even at safety he's not the best late round pick, as Dawan Landry and Antoine Bethea have been better at the position. Bethea's been to a Pro Bowl.
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Royal will come away with the starting nod when the dust settles. He's the most experienced, and if DJ has taught us anything, it's that he'll go with experience versus talent. Hanging on to veterans past their prime has been a facet of his coaching style since coming to Buffalo.
Schouman has little experience and lacks the bulk to handle strongside LB's. Courtney Anderson is a big body, but after unsuccessful stints in Atlanta and Detroit, he's probably just training camp fodder. Fine is still a rookie, and played in a quasi-spread offense at Kansas. For him to come away with the starting job, it'd be a big surprise.
That's not to say Fine and Schouman have no NFL future, but expecting a super rookie (Schouman) and Fine to be starting NFL caliber TE's in their first season is out of the question. Royal comes away with the job by default, despite having below average hands. He had two key fumbles last season, and few Bills fans can forget him unable to get two feet in-bounds against Tennessee 2 seasons ago. This is a position the Bills will upgrade very quickly, though Royal has 2 years on his deal after 2008.
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Both Peters and the Bills have some sort of leverage. I do think he'll eventually report, and Buffalo will feign interest (at least this year) in re-upping him at some point. Obviously they're working toward extending Evans, but I'm confident they know that having a LT who can neutralize opposing pass rushers is imperative.
I'm not certain it'll happen this year, but Peters must be patient. Either way, he's the difference in OL play and there's no doubt that Edwards has a lot of trust for someone like Peters. As much as some have heralded Chambers as being capable of handling the job, he's not nearly the answer.
With success comes the paychecks commensurate with it. Players like Peters, Evans, et al will inevitably become commonplace and ultimately lead the Bills to pay their players. The NFL is increasingly becoming a players league, and paychecks are following in short order. For the Bills to be successful long term, they'll need to extend their stars and draft well year after year.
There is no question that Buffalo needs Jason Peters. I'm hopeful the team realizes they need him for long term success because the position he plays is so essential.
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No player in the NFL has better nicknames:
"The Hefty Lefty"
"The Pillsbury Throwboy"
"Lord of the Ring Dings"
and quite possibly the best one...
"He Ate Me"
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Patience is a virtue.
Maybe his agent is Eugene Parker.
Either way, he won't be the last first rounder signed and we'll see him on the field in due time. I would venture to say the FO is busy right now working on Evans contract, McKelvin, and deflecting all the noise regarding Jason Peters.
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It'd be easy to compare the situation with Peters, but that's for the other 12 threads going on.
Evans has been very professional throughout this process, and it really only when he said a few things after a mini-camp or OTA did it get more notice. I believe he'll be re-upped in short order, but just the fact he's keeping the issue out of the press is a comforting.
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I don't think anyone's arguing that he's a bad guy, but it's readily apparent that he's not nearly the athlete that it takes to play LT successfully in the NFL.
He was out of football in 2006, and signed a street FA deal with Buffalo. He's the only NFL experienced OT on the roster outside of last years starters. What's more, the other OT's in camp are street free agents, UDFA's, and late round draft picks.
It's absurd to think these caliber of players can neutralize the premier pass rushers they'll face this season.
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It's worth noting that in a perfect world, Peters should be at camp right now. No question about it.
The NFL is not a perfect world though, and Peters stands to earn 3.25M this season. By comparison, Michael Roos of Tennessee just inked a deal that averages 7.1M per, and he's not nearly the player that Peters is. Joe Thomas, by virtue of his rookie deal last year, earns roughly the same.
Three years ago, Walter Jones signed a 7 year 52.5M deal, which is probably a lot closer to what Peters seeks, by probably not nearly what he's going to need.
FWIW, the argument that Peters is in the league solely because of the Buffalo Bills, well, that's purely simplistic. Everyone's most hated GM picked him up, and ultimately Peters himself asked Mularkey how he could play. He went on to become a starter on the OL, and has only improved his play since that time. So much so that he's handled the most difficult line position and become the most dominant LT in the AFC.
The point is, Peters has worked very hard and combined with superior physical abilities is the best Bills OT since Will Wolford. It's not just the Bills who have made him.
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Then its a Mexican standoff. Personally I'll take my chances with Chambers than cave in to Peters. He can pound sand, and watch his value drop with every game he sits out.
PTR
I think too many fans have forgotten the Eagles game at the end of last season. Chambers worked hard, but he has about 1/4 the athleticism to handle the LT job.
Buffalo has nothing at OT with NFL experience after Chambers. Only the QB position is more important on offense, perhaps the entire team.
It'd be nice to say "we'll go with Chambers or Walker at LT" but neither have the requisite skills to play the position.
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There is no reason to talk to Peters. All contracts are through his agent, and Brandon doesn't do contracts, Littman does. Brandon said yesterday that his conversations with Parker were "minimal" when compared to his conversations with Parker about James Hardy. So he's clearly spoken with Peters' agent, and probably recently.
The thing that is laughable to me is that if anyone took one second to sit back and think about what that actually means, that they would believe it. Is it even possible to believe, even in Madden 09, that Eugene Parker and Jason Peters just decided to not show up but didn't tell anyone or tell the team anything about why or what they wanted? They are just waiting for the team to call them and ask where he is?
I thought Overdorf did contract negotiations? Even still, transparency isn't required in this process, and being honest probably hurts the situation. I'll take an educated guess and say there's been preliminary talk between the two sides.
Still, it's worth noting that Brown is a mouthpiece for the Bills organization, as Peters and the agent are for their side. A "fair and balanced" perspective is probably out of the question here.
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You know what? If the Bills think Peters is a "bad character guy", as Brown is trying to paint him, then let him go. Trade him for a high-motor guy that will sacrifice his off-season with his family completely for the "good of the team".
Too bad you can't do it retroactively. They could've gotten a lot of draft picks for Bruce Smith back in the day.
Chris Brown's slight comparison of Kyle Williams' and Brad Butler's situations with Peters is downright laughable.
I can't really trust anything that comes out of OBD, especially in light of this talk that there's been no communication. You know that even if Peters hadn't contacted them, they want to know why their best lineman hasn't felt it necessary to report to training camp.
It is times like this when a savvy front office type with experience in handling personnel matters would be invaluable. Unfortunately, the Bills don't have a GM, and didn't feel the need to get one.
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In all reality here, the Bills have handed out what I'd call two large contracts in the past two years. Both Dockery and Schobel received big deals, and Lee Evans will follow shortly-I hope. The two to Dockery and Schobel put this situation on the map, not to mention the deals for FA OL in NY (Diehl) and TEN (Michael Roos) All the other contracts (Mitchell, Butler, K. Williams, Parrish, and Stroud) are minor to slightly above average deals.
I've got to believe the Bills don't have the money to extend Peters, given the enormity of the contracts they've handed out. It doesn't help that the team handed out large contracts to two other lineman and the going rate for young line talent has risen so rapidly. That, and Evans must have a deal soon.
I'm not trying to say one way or the other, but as KFBD said, there's issues from both standpoints.
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1. NFL contracts are not guaranteed 2. he was a RT when he signed the contract 3. He made a Pro-bowl which is a general condition for renegotiation 4. Schobel, Kyle Williams, Brad Butler sets the stage and none of them are played at the level that Jason Peters played at last year.
The Butler and Williams agreements shouldn't even factor into this. A Pro Bowl LT at age 26 is far and away different that an average at best DT and promising RG. And neither one are even on the same field as Peters when it comes to future potential.
Ordinarily I wouldn't support a player who wants a new deal. Russ Brandon may talk tough, but he's in over his head on this one, and the example RB used repeatedly about giving Peters a deal two years ago doesn't wash. Going into 06, Peters earned the starting RT spot. I'm convinced it was McNally or another OL coach who told Jauron that Peters could make the transition to LT, and it happened after the bye week in 2006 when the OL was hurting under the weight of players like Tutan Reyes and mediocre OLT play from Mike Gandy. So it was that Peters became their go to OL, and the Bills ran behind him more often than not.
Now he's proven that he can play the most crucial spot on the OL against some of the best pass rushers in the league. And...Buffalo has no one else remotely capable of handling this job. I daresay that only 3-5 OLT's in the league can play at Peters' level.
This is when a savvy personnel man in a GM role is needed. Draft day is nice for taking pictures, but it's what's not going on behind the scenes that is irritating in this case. RB says the team has had no contact with either the player or agent. Frankly, I'm not buying it, and I think Peters has all the leverage in a situation like this and the Bills know it.
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I love our front office! They get it done
I hope we can all say that in January. With a playoff appearance.
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Hard to tell. Ralph might be cheap and senile enough to let the best player on the team languish, and then eventually report out of shape. I really hope not, but little would surprise me.
I also don't know if Jauron would have the ba!!s to step up and say something either. He might spend his time scouting defensive backs for 09.
Dockery called him "The Franchise." Chambers called him the "best LT in the league." Ross Tucker told me that he is as good as anyone he ever played with, and is challenging Walter Jones as the best in the league. The players know.
I am telling you.....this team has no shot without Peters. They need him both now and long term, and he deserves a raise.
Jeffrey Chaditha from ESPN did an article about players that their respective teams cannot afford to lose. Of course Brady, Manning, AP, Haynesworth et al. were mentioned. But if there's a player Buffalo can't lose, it's Peters. Not simply for lack of depth at OT, but because his play has been above and beyond what the average replacement can offer.
Jauron sounded authoritative (he spoke above a whisper) when talking about Peters' absence, but it's clear this isn't something he can control. It's up to the front office to sort this mess out. They can continue to stick to principle, but a precedent was set by re-doing Schobel's deal, and he didn't nearly make the stink that Peters has thus far. If it's good enough for one star player, it should be for another.
Everyone in that locker room knows Buffalo can't possibly expect to succeed with Peters. And you can bet the front office knows it too.
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Ralph will forever be an anti-hero, both reviled and appreciated by Bills fans. He's the one who started it all in Buffalo, and the man who refuses to assure the fans about a long term solution to keeping the franchise here. While the latter may be rooted in financial reasons, many of his recent comments indicate his dissatisfaction with the region in general. On one hand, the average WNY'er can hardly blame him, but going out of the way to make fun of Buffalo at the Toronto press conference a few months ago was uncalled for.
Ralph's remains a PR nightmare who has complained about the same issues since the 60s. He was obviously correct about the recent CBA, though the way he's publicly voiced his opinion is what irks me. The NFL is hard of hearing when dealing with revenue sharing and other areas which hurt small market teams. At the same time, it's important for the league's survival that small markets are not completely shut out, which is what might happen if every team becomes unofficially charged with building new stadiums. On that matter, Ralph's right and you've got to give him credit for highlighting these issues.
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I'm sure Peters' agent also knows the Bills head into the 08 season with nearly 20M in cap room based on Peter King's recent MMQB column.
King-Teams with most cap space (as of 7/21)
As much as I'm against re-negotiating a contract with 3 years remaining on it, owners have lost considerable leverage since the new CBA was signed and the financial landscape of the NFL went into the stratosphere. Players like Peters will get a new deal, sooner or later, regardless of principle because he's too valuable to the team. It may not happen this season, but it will eventually.
Here's what I don't understand
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
What does Peters care about getting credit for a season toward being a UFA? He's seeking a long term deal which would, at it's conclusion, give him somewhere in the neighborhood of 8-10 seasons of NFL service.
This isn't Devin Hester revisited, who knew the game was up, and his holdout carried very little in the way of a threat. Peters already has a long term moderate sized NFL contract, and is a little better off than Hester's 445k per rookie deal.
NFL stars typically get 2-3 decent contracts, and this would be Peters second. If it's six years, he'll be 32 if it goes the entire way.