BillsVet
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Ok, how did teams use the fact that Buffalo needed a RB last year against them?
The difference last year is there were only 2 first round caliber RB's. This as opposed to the WR class of 08 which does not reflect true first round talents.
Mags and ESPN saying a guy is the top of their class means nothing. I'm sure they've ranked their top FB's, K's, and P's as well. It doesn't say the top ranked players at those positions are first rounders.
If the Bills don't grab a WR in the first, I can't see them having their guy at 41 either. They'll almost have to make a move.
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Before anyone takes this literal just consider what could result from it. If the Bills felt that the money would be just too much to sign Evans to an extension, or that he doesn't want to, then Buffalo could tag him next year and then trade him to another team. Buffalo would save money, and we all know how much we enjoy this mentality, and would be able to recoup our 1st rder that we used to get into the 1st rd again this year. I wouldn't suggest doing this just to get back into the end of the rd this year but if it could get the Bills into the late teens/early twenties and for a player that they really coveted then I would be for it. I think the Bills really do want to retain Evans but if he overprices himself or Buffalo is trying to shed themselves of the last remnants of the Donahoe Era, then make it count now.
Now if this hypothetical scenario pisses you off then let me really put you over the edge. If this were to ever happen with this second 1st rder, I still wouldn't want the Bills to use it on a wide receiver but instead on our OL. I think that getting OL Branden Albert would pay huge dividends for years to come.
Franchise a player only to trade them? Never heard of it.
Seriously, there's no excuse for this perpetual rebuilding mode. By the beginning of the 08 season, Buffalo will have had three drafts, three free agency periods, and two regular seasons with which to become a successful team. Trading Evans would make this team even younger. It seems like we're always talking about taking a step back now in order to move forward two steps next year or the year after. Frankly, what good is it to be young and have draft picks for a team which hasn't won 10 games or made the playoffs since 1999? Evans should be in the mix, and if not re-signed, will be a giant black mark on this front office. After all, the team has no one else in the receiving game.
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I like the article about Tom Cousineau and his bolting to Montreal. That year, the Bills draft yielded Jerry Butler, Smerlas, and Haslett.
The most telling comment in the entire article deals with the front office in the wake of Cousineau going to Canada:
From that moment Buffalo's 1979 draft was destined to be remembered as the one in which the Bills, who have a long history of front-office bungling, fumbled Tom Cousineau.
But another chorus of that old Buffalo favorite, "Wait till next year!"
Man, that's a familiar refrain.
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Oh great! We might just end up with the WR equivalent of Whitner and Lynch!! That would SUCK!!
Yep, you nailed it. Congrats. Of course ch19079 was making a comparison like the one you're thinking.
If you can't see that the Bills are painting themselves into the proverbial corner at WR, it's hopeless. Any front office person in the NFL knew Buffalo was going RB in the first last season. And now, we're back at square one, needing a WR in a draft featuring no blue chip talent at the position. Unfortunately, if they can't trade out of the spot, they'll be forced to go WR earlier than they should. All teams know this, and will use this against Buffalo.
Buffalo has no receiving threat among WR's or TE's other than Evans. When one guy is all you've got, it's hard to make secondaries honest. And last year, teams blanketed Evans far too regularly, resulting in one of the worst pass offenses in the NFL.
Nothing has been done to address an offense at the bottom of the NFL. No one in the draft will come in and change that.
This makes three straight seasons the Bills will look to their top picks to enter the season, start, and make a difference. That's plain ridiculous. Forget about best player available, it'll be best player at WR.
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Carlson looked like crap at the combine, so I am glad there was an excuse.
The #1 reason you draft this kid is for his head. Trent Edwards has a great mind, and a good feel out on the field. A guy like Carlson should know where to put himself in the passing game, and could very easily turn into a go-to guy. NE exploded because of Welker. Welker has the freedom to motion and choose his own routes. Brady is smart enough to feel it too. When you keep hitting soft spots for 4,7,12 yards...you are going to see things tighten up and allow Moss a little more breathing room. Josh Reed is already a smart route runner. If we go WR in the 1st and Carlson is still there in the 2nd, with his 17lbs back on that he lost at the combine....all of a sudden the Bills have all the makings of another K-gun attack.
Absolutely agree on smarts. Having the ability to mentally transition from the college game to the pro game cannot be underestimated.
I think Carlson's stock ought to rise now that we're five weeks out of the draft. Smart players with good physical ability always trump the more pedestrian thinking players with excellent physical traits. I just don't think we're K-Gun ready, no matter who's taken in the draft.
It all comes down to how they use the passing game this year, Carlson, Fred Davis, Keller, whomever. If they want to use the TE, and have the right one, it'll be easier for Edwards. If Royal is the starter, it'll be bad again.
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Yes, we were 30th overall in total offense, but the defense wasn't much better. I believe we finished the season 30th there as well, and were were 25th against the run and 30th against the pass. We had NEEDS on both sides of the ball. Buffalo chose to address the defense immediately, because there were actually star caliber players in FA that could have an immediate impact. Sorry, but Bernard Berrian or Bryant Johnson were not going to have the offensive impact at WR that we need. Berrian wanted too much money, and he got it from a desperate team who overpaid. Praise to the FO for not wasting money on that guy. Johnson wanted a one year contract so that when he did have upgraded numbers not playing behind LF and AB in Arizona, he could bolt for mucho bucks somewhere else. Buffalo wanted to sign him to a longer term. When he wouldn't, they saw he was just another overrated premadonna that would be bad for the team. Signing a guy for one year would only have put us in the same position next year that we are in now. Looking for a starting veteran WR in the offseason. And next year it might be worse if they can't get LE to agree to an extension.
Malcolm Kelly, Limas Sweed, Devin Thomas, and James Hardy are all first round talents. Anyone who thinks they aren't is smoking something that is currently illegal in the United States. People said the same type of things in the 96 draft when Owens and Johnson were taken in the first round. They had great numbers but would never be great receivers. Oh, well. The fact is Buffalo is not going to take a WR at #11. They are like to do it at #14 or #22. I believe Buffalo will do the following.
Trade #11 to Dallas for #22 and #28 so that Dallas can draft RB Mendenhall who they REALLY like and who will be there at 11.
Mike Mayock says there's not one first round caliber WR. Mel Kiper isn't far behind, primarily because there's no Braylon Edwards, Calvin Johnson type talent this year. Kelly, Sweed, and Thomas are all fine players, but not elite talent.
And this just in: Dallas will not trade their two firsts (22 & 28) for our first or anyone's outside the top 10. Jerry Jones may be a jerk and below average personnel man, but he's not making that deal. That is, unless McFadden's available, and he won't be at 11.
Also, no player named Johnson or Owens went in the first round in 1996. If you're referring to Terrell Owens, he went in the third, due to his small school background.
The Bills have backed themselves into a corner at WR. Bryant Johnson wanted a long term deal, as all free agents do. Only when he realized he wasn't going to get it for Stallworth money, he went the one year contract route in an attempt to set himself up for FA 09. B. Johnson and his agent failed to read the market correctly, though he would have given the Bills greater flexibility on draft day. A one year deal for a 26 yr old receiver wasn't in accordance with the Bills plans to build a team nucleus. I have no problem with that, provided the Bills know who's going to be their #2 receiver and know that player can complement Evans.
So again this year, the Bills have gaping holes on offense. They've failed to give their young QB options to improve his growth and if they can't trade out of the 11th pick, their options are few. They could reach for a WR, or take best available, which leaves them hoping a second round WR can step in immediately and contribute. This rationale has been used for two years already, and we've seen what happens when you depend on rookies to make the difference.
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It seems like most Bills fans have forgotten this team was ranked at or near the bottom in most offensive statistical categories. As a result, we get subjects like this to post about. For the record, Buffalo was 30th in total offense, 15th in rushing yards, 30th in passing yards, and 30th in points scored in 2007.
Every year Bills fans count on the improvement of younger players. As Badol mentioned, they're counting on the QB (the most important position) to improve, but without the benefit of giving him legitimate options. No #2 WR, little if anything at TE, mean problems for Edwards.
For this team to be a legitimate playoff team, they'll need to score more than 16ppg like they did in 2007. Unfortunately, Buffalo has taken on the look of their HC. Hope to win with defense, and maybe the offense scores 20 to win. It didn't work in Chicago for DJ, and it won't work now.
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Or DE Harvey.
Schobel 31 years old , Denny 32........not as far fetched as some might think........Both Schobel and Denney will be 31 when the season begins. I hadn't realized they were over thirty. At least that's what the Bills website lists their age as.
How many times must it be mentioned that you cannot have enough pass rushers? If we haven't learned that after the SB, it won't ever happen.
The problem with Tripplet is that he was just consistantly getting PLOWED by opposing offensive lines and not getting pressure.......I would much rather take a calculated gamble like this then go down a path that we KNOW what the end result is going to be......
Our defensive line could actually be very good this year.....
Absolutely. Tripplett had 2 memorable games in 2 seasons. Jax in 2006 and Was in 2007. Outside of that, I couldn't tell he was on the field. Stroud has more size and talent, and I'd take the risk than accept the consequence of lining up guys like Tripplett and Williams. Neither has the size or talent to negate opposing beat most OL's in the middle.
Everything starts up front on defense (and offense for that matter) The LB's are in a much better position to make plays, and stop things much closer to the LOS with a bigger DL. I would not have an issue with another pass rusher, especially considering Schobel and Denney are over 30.
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Don't forget about Santa Claus...
Don't forget Mike Schmidt.
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Each year he's coached he's had substantially more defensive talent then offensive talent. While many view him as a conservative coach he may just be a coach devising the best formula to win and cover up his teams shortcomings. You can't say this for sure, but you can't say it's not true either. He needs a team with more offensive talent to really tell why his teams play the way they do.
I've got no problem with how DJ wins games, but the record shows Jauron's team's haven't been on the winning side nearly enough as a HC. In 7 NFL seasons (career record of 50-67) he's improved little, if any at all. He's never even demonstrated the ability to pick a QB and go with that guy alone. I hope it's not musical chairs this season if Edwards struggles.
I don't really don't agree with the defensive talent thing either. Since arriving in Buffalo, the front office has jettisoned Clements, Fletcher, and a wounded and overpaid Spikes. Meanwhile, they've used rookies to fill their places. If anything, the Bills had less defensive talent in 2007 than 2006. Hopefully the young players improve, but banking on rookies to provide the margin for winning is dangerous.
One other thing about DJ: Only 10 coaches in NFL History have a worse winning percentage with at least 100 games coached. They are: Marion Campbell, Bart Starr, Bruce Coslet, John McKay, Dan Henning, Ray Perkins, Dom Capers, Norm Van Brocklin, Joe Kuharich, and Leeman Bennett. Hardly the company of coaching greats.
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PG, I'd add that there are merely spare parts for TE's. The common denominator among playoff caliber teams is having that pass catching TE who poses matchup problems for opposing secondaries down the seam.
The Bills have not had a reliable TE in quite some time, and it appears nothing will change this season. Teyo Johnson is a WR in a larger frame without much semblance of blocking skills. Courtney Anderson appears to be bigger, but one wonders why he couldn't make it in Atlanta or Detroit. Schouman has receiving ability, but remains small for the position in the NFL. Royal is the best option, though one with poor hands and an inability to stretch the field. Matt Murphy and Tim Massaquoi are merely campers.
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Just adding a new OC will probably help the offence more then just adding new players. There really haven't been many quality guys on the offensive side of the ball in FA this year that could help the Bills. The WR's were mostly mediocre (removing Moss since he probably was never going to actually test the market) and the best TE available was someone who has not been healthy or close to his former self in a couple years. Those are really the only 2 areas the Bills needed to address this offseason with the offence, WR and TE, and then find a FB since they want to use one again, all the other positions are adequate for a playoff team, and they just need their QB to work out, and a co-ordinator that actually understands that the point to the game is to score as many points as possible, and that FG's should be a last resort for points, not the focus of the offence
It's a wing and a prayer that an OC who's never done the job after 12 years coaching in the NFL will get this team to being average offensively. The question might be: will DJ let him do the things he wants to do? DJ HC'd teams have never been powers offensively, undoubtedly due to his reliance on making each side of the ball support the other so much. We've seen it time and again how the offense (both in 06 and 07) cannot score, forcing the defense to remain on the field and subsequently yield in the second half.
Buffalo will, in all probability now, draft a WR and TE in the first three rounds. However, don't discount the DJ notion of drafting defense early and often. In the past two seasons, the Bills have selected 3 defensive players out of four picks in rounds 1 and 2. It should change, but with DJ having as much say as he does, it may not. Either way, we're again hoping that current players dramatically improve, because the scheme should work, and the players should get better. This very concept was echoed last season, particularly on defense. It didn't work then, and outside of getting a rookie WR to catch 60 balls, it won't happen this year either. There aren't enough options offensively to diversify the scheme like Schonert wants to.
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Is his name really "Chaz?" Is he a white stockbroker with a summer place in the Hamptons?
He must be a figure skater who'll compete with Napleon Dynamite for the pair title in Vancouver 2010.
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All this we have to get a WR who can produce now....NO WE DON'T. We don't HAVE to do anything. We don't have to make playoffs next year. We HAVE to keep building smart, and not rush things. If you can't deal with the team rebuilding from the Donahoe fiasco, thats just too bad. It takes time.
This post is pure insanity. As much as I think Lynch and Edwards will improve this season, you've got to have more than Lee Evans in the passing game, which is all they've got other than the hope Lynch will catches some passes himself.
I agree with Obie Wan...if waiting and patience are your strong suits, what's the big deal about having another 2-3 seasons of sub par 7-9, 8-8 seasons? If you're a fan who thinks team accountability and the playoffs are reasonable expectations you'd think otherwise.
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So it would be better for the FO to over pay a guy who wanted a one year deal who was the 17th overall pick and was so good they drafted a reciever in the top 5 the next year? Id rather draft a reciever especailly with our run first offense and the fact our QB loves the dump off.
I didn't say a thing about a FA WR acquisition. My post demonstrated that it's easier for RB's to become standouts in their rookie season than WR's.
After B. Johnson mentioned that the Bills didn't offer enough, I knew he wasn't worth it. I have no issue with the front office allowing him to go elsewhere. However, it puts the pressure on them to find another option for the QB, who needs all the help he can get.
As for the WR position, there is no perfect solution. FA's can wreak havoc with team chemistry, and rookies lack experience and NFL savvy. Taking the best WR in the draft should now be the priority, given the lack of weapons on offense.
BTW, you're reference to Edwards' habit to use the "drop-off" is short-sighted. Neither Losman nor Edwards attempted much downfield, especially considering the offense Fairychild was running. Edwards and Losman combined attempted only 118 passes out of 444 passes at 21 yards or more, or about 1/4 of their attempts. West Coast Offenses rarely throw deep, and rely on timing in routes.
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Ourlads.com is up and running! They also provide monthly newsletters that I recieve from August/September right into April. WARNING.... their mock is nothing like the national buzz, they scout (Dan Shonka is his name) as they have Professionally for organizations in the NFL. I think Dan's Bio is in Press releases icon down the left hand side! Enjoy!! I do!!!
Note: These are used to make you aware of potentail draftees and give you a working knowledge. They are meant, in my little draft world, as total entertainment, because knowing these prospects is fun and enjoyable. In that way, you'll know what Mel Kiper, Jr. or Mike Mayock is talking about on day two! I flew to the draft two years ago out of Phoenix, so I am consider myself hard core!!!
I've heard Shonka on WGR some mornings, and he's very insightful. You're right though, drafting is not a one or two round event, especially considering how important it is to acquire cheaper talent in the salary cap era. You look at all the late round "finds" and it's those guys that make a team better and it's the best scouts and front offices finding these guys. The Giants have set the standard for second day picks, along with San Diego, Indy, New England, even Philadelphia. It's no wonder they're the more successful franchises.
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Ya that worked awful last year when we passed on that stud chris brown
You've neglected to realize the point about the college to NFL development curve of RB's versus WR's. As has been mentioned numerous times on this board, RB's generally make a quick impact while WR's require more time to develop and transition into the pro game. Put simply, playing RB in the NFL is more instinctual, while receivers must adapt to a host of new coverages and the speed of NFL DB's.
Buffalo didn't ink Brown last year because they knew it'd easier to find a more viable alternative in the first round. Brown's always had durability issues, and he once again lived up to it this season.
Finding a WR becomes paramount in this draft, provided the front office makes no further deals at the position. To expect a first or second round receiver to play at the level of an average NFL wideout is much more improbable than thinking that way with running backs.
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What would have been wrong with paying small bucks for one year to Johnson like he asked for, and like SF did, so the #1 or #2 pick at WR didn't have to walk right in and produce right away?
Chris Brown on his blog noted that Buffalo wasn't willing to give a one year deal to a 26 year old. I understand this, given that the Bills are trying to build around a core group, and having a guy in for one year who could be out the door doesn't fit into that. Then again, having a guy in for one year and drafting a receiver to play should that guy leave shouldn't be ruled out either.
If BJ wanted money, he found the right place with the 49ers. Production as a WR won't happen though, but he went to a division rival in SF without a decent starting QB
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Do we really need another WR around the 6' area or smaller? I am hoping that they can draft a WR similar in size to Plaxico.
6'2 is big enough, especially given that he's carrying 215 pounds on that frame. Braylon Edwards has similar size, as does Fitzgerald. Finding a Burress is not an every year type thing, with 6'5 receivers with speed very rare.
Huge Michigan State fan.If we get a trade down? Then most certainly. He's middle height for a WR (6'2"), has great hands and can get open, but to me he's another speedster. We have Roscoe and Lee who can go deep and burn defenses, but I want a tough, physical #2 who can go over the middle and make plays. My problem is I want a well accustommed #2 if he's going to be coming out of college. Devin played very little his sophomore year, if he'd stuck around another year, I'd say a definite top 20 pick, no contest.
I'm not saying that he isn't the guy, he CAN go over the middle, but he's better suited to burn. I'd rather have a healthy Sweed or Kelly at 11. IF we trade down? By all means, should be a great pick up.
The knock on Thomas is he drops some balls, at least that's Mayock's issue with him. He's not got 3-4 years as a regular and/or starter at Michigan State, but not all players blossom in college. I'm just not a fan of these players who seem to become great after the season. I would hope the braintrust doesn't fall in love with him based on the combine and individual workouts. The tape on him in a segment Mayock showed showed he took a bad route a few times, but had the ability to get better with good coaching.
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I get everything you are saying, I really do... I'm not saying that they are going to ignore the need for a WR on day 1 and grab the next Marques Colston on day two. I just don't see them going WR at 11. With regards to Schonert - is there a true FB on the roster yet? Or is there and I missed something? Don't get me wrong because I'm stoked about Schonert, I just think it's premature to worry about where the offense is now, and where it is going under Schonert's leadership.
I think day one is going to be Rivers and Doucet (trade up).
I think they'll find or even have a FB, but that's not the point here. As for LB, I can't seen them getting younger at the position. They've already allocated a 2nd rounder in 07 (Posluszny) and a good FA signing this year (Mitchell) so I cannot see Rivers.
Unless they've got a CB they really like, and I think my head would explode if they use another high resource on a DB, it's readily apparent they've got little choice. IMO, the biggest areas of need (in order) are the following:
WR
TE
CB
C
OL Depth
S
Granted, it's my amateur opinion, but the weapons on offense are few and far between. They can have a run first offense, but without more receiving threats, you'll see plenty of 8 and 9 guys in the box. Diversifying the offense should be priority number one in the first two rounds, unless something drops to them.
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Now that draft day is quickly approaching (6 weeks tomorrow) I've seen numerous guides available on newsstands.
I purchased Sporting News and must say it's downright terrible. The rankings are askew, demonstrated by their ranking Jake Long and Vernon Gholston as second round talent. To me it appears they've banked on name recognition alone or just did poor research and stopped altogether after about November.
Pro Football Weekly's isn't bad and had some of the recent rising prospects.
Anyone else have any notes on which guides they prefer? I'd heard ESPN isn't putting on out this year.
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All I'm saying is that one of the guys with a first round grade is sure to fall to the Bills in the second round. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to see them trade back into the first to grab a receiver they really like, I just don't think they are going to go WR at 11. I think they will grab the best defensive playmaker on their board at 11, and grab a WR later. The defense is closer than the offense is and I think that by strengthening the D the offense will have shorter fields, hopefully more possessions (takeaways by D), and a lower opposing point total to deal with.
In theory, WR is deep this year with Sweed, Kelly, Manningham, Hardy, Doucet, D. Thomas, and Desean Jackson probably going before the first day is over. There will be plenty of options at 11, but we need to recall this is an offense ranked near the bottom of every statistical category in 07. Going defense in round 1 gives me the impression they're not serious about doing what Schonert is talking about. Granted, a first round receiver may not make 80 catches, but there aren't a host of receivers with size either.
If the Bills go CB in round 1 (and I can't see LB or DL at this point) it makes me wonder about Schonert has for options with Edwards. At least a rookie with size like Kelly, Sweed, or Thomas gives them another option. Reed and Parrish are simply not enough to allow an offense to succeed in the passing game.
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WR in the first round = pipe dream.
Love the avatar. Not in agreement concerning the first round pick.
Drafting a first round CB seems the alternative. The other "needs" aren't on par with WR. A CB would not make this team much better, and in all probability would become a nickel and be worked into the lineup a la Darelle Revis for NYJ in 07.
The TE class is weak, headlined by a bulked up WR in Dustin Keller and a slow John Carlson. LB should not be a priority, and unless Dorsey or Ellis fall, neither should DT. Outside of a talented DE dropping down, the WR position cannot be ignored. Opponents had too easy a time shutting down Lee Evans, and outside of games against also-rans Cincinnati and Miami, the Bills offense sputtered mightily, particularly in the passing game with Evans recording 100+ yard recieiving games against only the Bungles and Dolfelons.
Yes, that first rounder would be relied heavily from the beginning. At this point, there's little option.
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I think it's a good no-signing for Buffalo with Bryant Johnson. He overestimated his worth on the free agent market, and ultimately took a one year deal to prove his skills on a team without a #1 QB. He was out for a payday no one was willing to give him.
At the same time, it leaves the Bills with a tremendous hole at WR, though I don't think Bills management sees a huge problem. Jauron is a defense first coach, and their three acquisitions on FA are on that side of the ball.
Once again, it'll be win with defense, and hope the offense can score just enough. It's what DJ coached teams are notorious for, though opponents will easily take away Evans and Lynch much like they did last year. Edwards has been anointed as the starter, but the weapons will be few and far between. If the Bills don't grab a WR in the first round, or try to go with what they've got, it's going to be a long season offensively. Sweed, Kelly, and Devin Thomas represent the best options, though none are top half of the first round talents at WR.
We will NOT take a WR
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Neither Kelly nor Sweed seem to have the ability to separate from their defender. I don't care if a guy doesn't run a 4.3, but they've got to run precise routes and get into space. Too often, fans are in awe when a guy has size, straight line speed, and comes from a marquee program.
Looking back over the past few years, too many guys fitting this profile have failed because they're not able to just beat guys with physical attributes. Troy Williamson, Charles Rogers, and Mike Williams come to mind within the past few years who fit the above criteria of size and decent speed.