Git'er Done
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Posts posted by Git'er Done
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OK...I read the part that said "I've been trying to convince posters here..." and then the part that said "Brian Leonard could be this year's 'Touchdown' Tommy Vardell" - do I need to read anything in the middle?
No,I'm sure it's too much for you.
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If you want to convince posters that teh Bills need a 1strnd back to win a SB why use an article that addreses rushing yardage instead?
Of that big long lost of premiumpick RB's I only see about 6 with rings.
Post how many of the last 15-20 SB participants had a premiumpick RB and then you might get some folks' attention.
Cya
I also posted all the Super Bowl winners, they weren't necessarily "premium picks" but almost all were 1st rounders. I have posted a few different lists, this is just to add another aspect.
No one has come up with any contrary statistics that make ANY argument for the players from the other rounds (because there aren't any), they just post stuff like "I think you can get better value in the 2nd or even 3rd round at running back" or spew out a couple names of successful running back from other rounds.
My contention is that it's almost essential to have a great back to win a SB, that the odds are way better in the first, that an average back is a waste of time (and other players careers) and that perhaps the top guys just have that little bit something extra that can push a team over the top.
Also alot of the guys won more than one ring.
I still haven't seen a well reasoned argument for a 2nd rounder, and some fools are counting on a 3rd. To me this is the way to waste picks.
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I have been trying to convince posters here that if you want to win the Super Bowl ,you need a 1st rounder at RB. Almost ALL the Super Bowl winners had one. I just found an article with some nice stats and such.
Great Running Backs Readily Identified by Draft Day
NFL teams do not overlook many great running backs at draft time. The proof is in the statistics. Below is a list of the career leaders in rushing yards. It is overwhelmingly dominated by first round selections, super premium picks at that. While NFL teams occasionally select running backs too early in the draft, the great one's are rarely drafted late.
Nine of the top 10 running backs were drafted in round one. Only Curtis Martin, currently number four on the list, was drafted any later. Martin was a third round pick of the New England Patriots in 1995 from the University of Pittsburgh.
Of the top 20 career rushing leaders, 15 were selected in round one. In addition to Martin, the other top 20 rushers selected outside of round one were: No. 11 Thurman Thomas (2nd round, Bills, 1988, Oklahoma State), No. 15 Ricky Watters (2nd round, 49ers, 1991, Notre Dame), No. 18 Corey Dillon (2nd round, Bengals, 1997, Washington) and No. 20 Terry Allen (9th round, 1990, Vikings, Clemson).
Among the top 55 all-time rushers: 31 were first round picks, 8 were second round selections, 5 were picked in round three, 9 were tabbed in later rounds and two players were not drafted at all. The undrafted running back were No. 22 Hall of Famer Joe Perry and No. 34 current great Priest Holmes.
Perry, who entered the NFL via its incorporation of the AAFC in 1950, was perhaps the most exciting runner of his era. In the AAFC, Perry scored 23 touchdowns in 25 games over two years, averaging seven yards per carry. In the NFL, Perry rushed for over 1,000 yards in both the 1953 and 1954 seasons, an extremely difficult task in 12 game seasons. In 1953, Perry gained 1,018 yards rushing for 5.3 yards per carry and scored 13 touchdowns. He followed it up with perhaps an even better season when he rushed for 1,049 yards for 6.1 yards per carry and scored eight more touchdowns.
Holmes has confounded not only all those who overlooked him at draft time, but also the Baltimore Ravens who failed to resign him after he rushed for over 1,000 yards in 1998 and the Cleveland Browns who didn't try hard enough to get him to join the team when it had the opportunity and room under the salary cap to do so upon its reentry into the league. If Holmes can stay healthy enough to have just one more good season, he will enter the top 20 in all-time rushers.
Of the career leading rushers who were actually drafted, No. 23, the unheralded Ernest Byner (10th round, Browns, 1984, East Carolina) was the least appreciated at draft time. Nevertheless, Byner had a 14 year career with the Browns, Redskins and Ravens. He not only rushed for 8,261 yards, but also caught 512 passes for 4,605 yards more.
Other late round picks included No. 20 Terry Allen (previously mentioned), No. 33 Terrell Davis (6th round, 1995, Broncos), No. 38 Leroy Kelly (8th round, 1964, Browns), No. 46 Wilbert Montgomery (6th round, 1977, Eagles) and No. 54 Don Perkins (9th round, 1960, Cowboys).
No. 24 Herschel Walker was drafted in the fifth round in 1985 by the Cowboys, but he would have undoubtedly been the first pick in any draft he entered if he had not already been signed and playing in the USFL.
Over 40% of the career rushing leaders were super premium draft picks. Somewhat arbitrarily, I've defined the super premium picks as the nine first selections in the draft. Super premium picks that turned into all-time rushing greats include: No. 2 Walter Payton (4 player in 1975 by the Bears), No. 3 Barry Sanders (3rd player, 1989, Lions), No. 6 Eric Dickerson (2nd player, 1983, Rams), No. 7 Tony Dorsett (2nd player, 1977, Cowboys), No. 8 Jim Brown (6th player, 1957, Browns), No. 12 Marshall Faulk (2nd player, 1994, Colts), No. 13 John Riggins (6th player, 1971, Jets), No. 14 O.J. Simpson (1st player, 1969, Bills), No. 17 Ottis Anderson (8th player, 1979, Cardinals), No. 19 Earl Campbell (1st player, 1978, Oilers), No. 26 Gerald Riggs (9th player, 1982, Falcons), No. 27. Larry Csonka (8th player, 1968, Dolphins), No. 28 Freeman McNeil (3rd player, 1981, Jets), No. 29 Garrison Hearst (3rd player, 1993, Cardinals--do the Cardinals lose all their great draft picks), No. 31 Edgerrin James (4th player, 1999, Colts--who wisely bypassed Ricky Williams), No. 35 Fred Taylor (9th player, 1998, Jaguars), No. 36 Mike Pruitt (7th player, 1976, Browns), No. 40 George Rogers (1st player, 1981, Saints), No. 43 Curt Warner (3rd player, 1983, Seahawks), No. 47 Chuck Muncie (3rd player, 1976, Saints), No. 52 Ricky Williams (5th player, 1999, Saints) and No. 53 Floyd Little (6th pick, 1967, Broncos).
Few running backs drafted with super premium picks become total washouts. When they do, it is often due to injuries. Nevertheless, the following players probably did not meet the lofty expectations of the teams that drafted them: Ki-Jana Carter (1st player, 1995, Bengals), Blair Thomas (2nd player, 1990, Jets), Bo Matthews (2nd player, Chargers, 1974), Alonzo Highsmith (3rd player, 1987, Oilers), Brent Fullwood (4th player, 1987, Packers), Curtis Enis (5th player, 1998, Bears), Lawrence Phillips (6th player, 1996, Rams), Tim Worley (7th player, 1989, Steelers), Joe Profit (7th player, 1971, Falcons), Michael Haddix (8th player, 1983, Eagles), Touchdown Tommy Vardell (9th player, 1992, Browns), Sammie Smith (9th player, 1989, Dolphins), and Bubba Bean (9th player, 1976, Falcons)
An added note, Brian Leonard could be this years "Touchdown" Tommy Vardell.
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Its not likely. Meachem is considered the 2nd WR on the board by many at this point and is expected to go in the middle half of R1.
Its possible that the Bills could be eyeing him as a target if they trade up from 43 into the latter half of R1, but I think that its highly unlikely they'd do so for a WR.
Some quotes from NFL Draft scout
"Higher than you Think: At this point, I don't know of another draft analyst ranking Meachem as the second-best receiver of the 2007 class. I know of at least a half dozen NFL teams that do -- including a handful of that own picks in the top 15. Those toward the middle of the first round don't expect Meachem to be available when they pick."
NFL COMBINE: Meachem may have solidified a first-round grade by having a good Sunday at the combine workouts. The 6-4, 214-pound receiver from Tennessee kicked off his workout by running a 4.39 40, third best in his group and tied for seventh among the receivers who worked out. He showed good power during his run. His arms spread out wide like an airplane as he gathered his speed. Though you would think the extended arms would have slowed him down, it didn't. Meachem predicted on Friday he would run in the 4.3s and he lived up to his prediction. What was most impressive about his drill work was how well he caught the ball with his hands instead of his body and how he positioned himself after the catch. On throws to the inside of the numbers, he watches the ball into his hands while positioning his feet to get yards after the catch. He caught all of the balls on the gauntlet drills going across the field and allowed very few balls to hit the ground during the day. He did seem to be a little slow coming out of his cuts as he went around a cone on some precision routes. That is the type of footwork he would need to improve. He looked very natural on the long passes and showed great ability to adjust to over-the-shoulder catches and long passes. He seems to have the right combination of size, speed and pass-catching ability to merit a first-round grade. -- John Clayton, PFWA
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If we were going to go offense outside of RB in the first round, I would much prefer Greg Olsen. We could eliminate the need for a fullback. Play two TEs as our base offense. Have our big target end zone threat. Mess with defenses a little bit not knowing if we are in a run first or a pass first mode, and help out the run game much more than a WR. I also think it will help Roscoe and Reed and Peerless.
Marv made it clear that he likes the current TE's and felt they were hindered by poor line play. I believe him. No high rd TE this year.
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I think people are getting a little too caught up in the "needs" of the Bills.
There will be veteran linebackers and lineman and cornerbacks available for short term contracts that can come cheaper than the guys we let go and will be adequate.
I think if they find a guy that they REALLY like and think will be a consumate pro they will and should take him at just about ANY area of need as opposed to the fans perceived "top priority need".
I feel the Bills needs at running back are the hardest to fill, but don't want them to just take any jackass. I think they want a guy that they feel SURE about.
I read that Meacham was the most impressive interview at the combine. His skills also fit the Bills needs at wide receiver.
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making that list is dedication...much respect my man
Well thank you.
I'm completely convinced they will place a priority on Juniors just like last year. Almost all the top picks of the draft are gonna be Juniors. Leon Hall is a year behind Youboty (even if he didn't really play, he knows what to expect).
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I was shocked when I heard that too...and Kelly I agree with your post as well....but that was what I heard...if I can ever find the article, I'll be sure to post it.
Polls in general are sketchy. I mean if you are from Toronto (family, friends old teammates) would you really choose Edmonton over Buffalo. You might say "Toronto first, and Buffalo 2nd" and Buffalo gets no vote.
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I heard on XM Radio earlier on the Hockey Show they polled all of the NHL players and asked then what city they desired to play in the most?
The most was Toronto...and the least was Buffalo.
The issue is in the NHL as well.
I believe the issue of players not choosing Buffalo will widen as salaries get higher and higher.
Some players do like the small town feel of Buffalo...but in the bling bling era, I feel players want the richer, more glamorous cities.
I find that very hard to believe. I just saw an article about how many formerplayers/coaches/current players (hockey people) live in this area. It's location right on the border is a big plus. I can't see Buffalo last for NHL'ers. These "Bling Bling" NHL'ers love Edmonton? Ottawa? Calgary?
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Buffalo is not the first choice for a player to live, but it can be and has been the first choice for a player to PLAY. If the team and organization are top notch, they will come, no problem. I know it might seem like a homer thing to say but I KNOW it's true. The Bills fans are among the top 5 in the NFL, and THE FANS are maybe the biggest source of CAREER enjoyment for a player.
Buffalo
Cleveland
Green Bay
Pittsburgh
Kansas City
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I believe the Bills (and most teams in the NFL) will use their Top 15 pick on a JUNIOR
Here are the juniors ( left out QB, S, OL, and TE. Really, give it up, they aren't gonna use the pick on a TE)
Running Backs
Adrian Peterson
Marshawn Lynch
Antonio Pittman
Ahmad Bradshaw
Michael Bush
Chris Henry
Brandon Jackson
Gary Russell
Raymonce Taylor
Darius Walker
Danny Ware
Dwayne Wright
Wide Receivers
Calvin Johnson
Robert Meacham
Dwayne Jarrett
Ted Ginn
Anthony Gonzales
Dwayne Jarrett
Maurice Price
Sidney Rice
Defensive Lineman
Jamaal Anderson
Jarvis Moss
Alan Branch
Amobi Okoye (I know he was a senior, but he's 19)
Antwan Applewhite
Stanley Doughty
Charles Johnson
Mckenzie Matthews
Linebackers
Lawrence Timmons
Jon Beason
Brandon Siler
Rory Johnson
Joe Abbate
Cornerbacks (Personally, I don't see a CB happening here, if Youboty were coming out THIS season he would have been a top rated CB, maybe higher than Leon Hall. But here they are.)
Darrelle Revis
Chris Houston
Eric Wright
C.J. Gaddis
So who do YOU like.
(please, there are plenty of posts naming Senior players like Patrick Willis, let's just ASSUME that they will go for a Junior (Like they did with THE FIRST 4 PICKS LAST YEAR).
I think 2 or 3 of these guys will be BILLS
Uhh, I like Lynch
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I could be wrong, or overestimating this kind of thing, but isn't there alot of bad blood between the Bills organization and AJ Smith? If so, I think the egos involved would really have to be sure that they were getting the better of the deal. It just seems unlikely that the Bills would feel good about a deal with the Chargers.
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I like POZ because I am a PSU fan. He was part of a team that brought back that program from the Big 10 (11) basement, so I respect him for the role he played on that team. That being sad, I don't know if he is a top 12 talent, but he plays hard and trains hard. I think people in Buffalo like him for his work ethic and "high character," which makes him that anti-Willis (the RB not the LB).
Yeah, but that's part of what is clouding peoples perception. They are still over reacting to Willis. Don't let that fool mess with your real focus. Things like "I don't want another player from a glamourous college or state, they aren't Buffalo guys". I see posts like that.
Fools
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Good points. I just didn't comprehend that from your first post. I think Poz will be a decent NFL starter, but taking him at 12 would be a mistake.
Exactly how I feel.
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I think money and fame are fine motivators and not necessarily "bad character" traits, as long as there are others as well.
Bad character traits that can affect a team are thing like placing personal accomplishments ABOVE team accomplishments. For example, Bruce Smith (I feel) was motivated by fame and money, also placed alot importance on personal stats, but I always felt that winning was THE most important thing to him. He worked hard to stay in shape, even if he didn't practice hard or held out and was a prima donna. He played hurt.
He wanted to be the best. that's the big one.
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What are you suggesting? Don't draft any white guys? I can't grasp the concept of your post.
For the record... (From their campus workouts)
Posluszny: 4.67 in the 40-yard dash … 375-pound bench press … 560-pound squat … 335-pound power clean … 31-inch vertical jump
Willis: 4.62 in the 40-yard dash … 365-pound bench press … 500-pound squat … 310-pound power clean … 38-inch vertical jump.
No,No,No
"Poz" might be great I don't really know, but I do know people have a tendency to root for people that they think they see some of themselves in. Every short guy in town LOVED Doug Flutie, every East Indian is voting for Sanjaya, and every fat guy rents Ron Jeremy videos......it's universal. It just clouds their judgement thats all.
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People here think he is the second coming of Shane Conlan and Marv loves high character white boys.
Exactly.
Brian Leonard. Paul Posluzny.
Great White Hopes.
How many of the these "POZ" boosters are Polish? Hmmm.....
And Shane Conlan was above average, not GREAT (I like Conlan). I'm hoping they get someone GREAT.
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Ive seen so many incorrect player analysis on the guy from people here it's given me some honest to God laughs.
Ive watched every game the man's played.
Well you get the gold star
He ABSOLUTELY was part of a rotation- so whomever in another thread said he'd excel in Buffalo cos he wont have to play all game, is wrong.
Wrong how exactaly? He was part of a rotation in philly and is primarily a good interior pass rusher. He will also be playing in a rotation in buffalo with larry tripplett, our 1st rd pick dt john mccargo and 5th rd pick from last year kyle williams. Playing next to a good pass rushing de in aaron schobel and a young improving de in chris kelsay. It would only be natural to assume based on his strengths and weaknesses. That playing in a rotation system based on pursuit and pressure he'd fit in well. Be my guest and tell me where I'm wrong?
The guy honestly defines average. Nothing special, won't hurt you, a good guy to have coming INTO a rotation, not start. To get anything at all for the guy is nice, to land a guy like Spikes who, granted, is 30, like Walker, but has such a better skill set and upside in the return to form from the injury?
I'll take it.
Talking to the majority of either side of the spectrum you'll get some homer responses to this. Each teams fans will believe they got the better end of the deal. As far as Walker being "average" as an all around player yes. Again he won't be playing all game, as he'll be used in a rotation system that suits his paticular strengths. If he was an everydown player being relied as a hold point, clog holes kind of dt I'd agree he's not suited. The Tampa 2 is based on inside pressure. That's Walkers game and he's been fairly good at it. No he's obviously not Tommie Harris, but he significantly upgrades the rotation of buffalos dline.
I know the history of the injury. I also know that Spikes played better as the year wore on last yr, and he was also hindered by a hammy injury that cant be discounted. I think he;ll be fine, and to only have to toss in a 2008 7th round pick> ????? And ya gave us a very good back up (I think he'll be AJ's back up, but whatever, they needn't burn a draft pk on QB this yr which is a plus, well, no wonder Sal Palantonio of ESPN said "Tell Buffalo Media to quote me- someone up there needs to know they were robbed!"
Better as the year went on? Because you looked at a stat sheet and saw he had a bunch of tackles or that's the kind of spin philly media is giving you. He accquired more tackles because at the end of the year he played significantly more on the weakside then strongside. He was also absolutly man handled week 16 against the titans, and looked brutal. Against the ravens he wasn't much better.
He mad very little impact in terms of the defense. Yes he's a workout warrior and great locker room guy, and generally a guy you want to root for. However let's let facts get in the way for a moment. Takeo Spikes is not the same player he was 3-4 years ago. You have yourselves a very good mentor for younger players. If you're expecting the guy who would get 160 tackles 2-4 sacks and ints a year and a few forced fumbles? Don't hold your breath.
As far as Kelly Holcomb goes. He fits that west coast offense. So yeah he'll make a decent backup and probably spot starter when McNabb goes down again. He gives a nice veteran presence and seems like a good locker room guy who will help your qb. I have no ill will towards either player. I hope Spikes comes back strong, but don't let name value fool you. I generally like to believe eagle fans are smarter then that.
I'm not so sure he was a great lockerroom guy. I think he was part of the divisiveness of the lockerroom with Eric Moulds in 2005. I think the team wants a new set of leaders, their own guys. Spikes time was up. I'm esctatic that they got ANYTHING for him, and cut loose Holcomb.
I think he was a big cap hit, and won't be worth the money in the LONG RUN. By the time the Bils will be legitimate Super Bowl contenders (2008 or 2009) he will be very average (I think he has some gas left in the tank, just not 2 or 3 seasons). The BIll need a bunch of guys RISING to their peak at the same time in order to win a Super Bowl.
Spikes was AWESOME and I wish him well.
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And you know what the funny thing about this is. When we made the trade a few weeks ago they said the Bills made an AWFUL trade. HEY, WHOSE SIDE ARE YOU ON ESPN! THE BILLS OR THE RAVENS! I RESPECT YOU BASHING MCGAHEE NOW BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT EARLIER!
There is more than one guy working there giving out their opinions. Some liked the trade , others didn't. Who gives a rat's a$$
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I believe the Bills (and most teams in the NFL) will use their Top 15 pick on a JUNIOR
Here are the juniors ( left out QB, S, OL, and TE. Really, give it up, they aren't gonna use the pick on a TE)
Running Backs
Adrian Peterson
Marshawn Lynch
Antonio Pittman
Ahmad Bradshaw
Michael Bush
Chris Henry
Brandon Jackson
Gary Russell
Raymonce Taylor
Darius Walker
Danny Ware
Dwayne Wright
Wide Receivers
Calvin Johnson
Robert Meacham
Dwayne Jarrett
Ted Ginn
Anthony Gonzales
Dwayne Jarrett
Maurice Price
Sidney Rice
Defensive Lineman
Jamaal Anderson
Jarvis Moss
Alan Branch
Amobi Okoye (I know he was a senior, but he's 19)
Antwan Applewhite
Stanley Doughty
Charles Johnson
Mckenzie Matthews
Linebackers
Lawrence Timmons
Jon Beason
Brandon Siler
Rory Johnson
Joe Abbate
Cornerbacks (Personally, I don't see a CB happening here, if Youboty were coming out THIS season he would have been a top rated CB, maybe higher than Leon Hall. But here they are.)
Darrelle Revis
Chris Houston
Eric Wright
C.J. Gaddis
So who do YOU like.
(please, there are plenty of posts naming Senior players like Patrick Willis, let's just ASSUME that they will go for a Junior (Like they did with THE FIRST 4 PICKS LAST YEAR).
I think 2 or 3 of these guys will be BILLS
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I think this is the BEST offseason in years!
Frankly, I think the team "culture" is the most important thing.
Look the difference between two 300 pound pro athletes isn't gonna be that big. A lineman that runs 4.8 versus a 5.5 etc,. What counts a lot more is whats between the ears and their heart.
For instance Langston Walker. It's REAL hard to get into it when the team you are on blows. I know there are paid ALOT of money, but on the field you aren't counting dollars. They are human. It's MENTAL!
The Bills WILL be better.
I think TKO was a downer in the lockerroom.
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Just as you want me to expect a reasonable amount of time for the Bills to develop, I need a reasonable amount of time to make Super Bowl predictions. That's too far off at this point. Indy, SD, NE certainly appear the front-runners in the AFC. The NFC is a little less clear, CHI still has excellent talent, but PHI and NO will be there with them.
If Spikes is let go, I need to know it was for salary cap reasons. Just saying the guy isn't performing is an insult to my intelligence. The guy looked to be coming on last season and the key question here is: Do we have an alternative to Spikes? Or is there a guy on the free agent market who can play to position like a veteran with talent? The answer is no, not at this point. You're not going to get a Merriman in the draft most likely and without a veteran with talent, you're turning the reigns at WLB over to a 2nd year former 6th round pick, the MLB most likely to a converted OLB, and then whomever they draft at SLB. That's playing with fire.
The Bills aren't on the right path if we get into the endless cycle of simply looking to the draft and rookies each season to replace veterans. I've said it before that I completely understand letting NC and LFB go. But you don't put rookies in their place or career backups and expect me to say nothing is wrong.
And again, I think I have the right to voice concern because this team is 0-7 in making the playoffs the last 7 years. Of course Marv wasn't here, but then they'd better understand most fans want to win. Just telling me to patient isn't something I'm going to buy. They've got to win now.
I never said you had no right to voice your opinion. I just used Spikes as an example. He may have something left but I doubt it will be worth 4.5m , I think there will be some vets let go and I hope the Bills keep some money for those developments.
Chicago is overrated to me, and they are losing guys, Grossman blows. They have problems, I think they have peaked. Yes there are some teams that are ahead of the Bills in their development, the Bills have to catch up.
Really all the teams have weaknesses. The Bills are gonna be better than last year, I believe they will make the playoffs. The offense will be way better. It would have been better even if they hadn't changed a player because Losman is gonna know the offense better, Fairchild will have more options, more audibles at the line for instance. The offense should be real good. The guys are gonna have more experience. Spikes didn't do much last season, there won't be worse play at that position. I expect them to pick up a veteran linebacker that has been cut, and they will be fine.
After this next season I think they will be a more desirable place for free agents. I think if they make the playoffs, Ralph will open up the wallet and spend above the cap, but they have to make the playoffs first. Were I an owner, I would certainly wait until the team had a strong, young core before I payed out big for free agents.
We shall see, I am through bickering with you, I have already posted all these opinions in prior posts. Believe what you will, we shall wait and see.
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If they are "lying" about something I would say it is that Fred Jackson is a serious consideration at RB.
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What am I going to do about it? That's the question asked when we run out of options to support our opinion. My posts are directed toward what I perceive as weaknesses on the team. So far, we have not upgraded any of our defensive positions of weakness from last year. We're heavily relying on now-2nd year players (K. Williams, Ellison, and McCargo) and a former backup (K. Thomas) to be the answer. That's wishful thinking. Offense I think will be better because we made a significant addition or two on the line.
Who do I think will win the Super Bowl? The team that can plan for the future and still upgrade enough from season to season. And we're only meeting the first half of that statement.
My point is you have to let things play out, there is nothing else to do, you have to give the new "regime" a reasonable amount of time to get things in order. I expect them to fill some the holes with guys that will be cut, kinda like Spikes, a guy who maybe past his prime and too makes too much money.
I expect them to make the playoffs.
The reason I want to know what team you think will win the Super Bowl is that I want to check that team's boards out and see how it's fans are bitching and moaning like the sky is falling. Every team has problem areas at coaching, management and/ or player levels. The BIlls are on the right path.
Here's an article for people that want a 2nd RB
in The Stadium Wall Archives
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I see you're a Poz fan and a Leonard fan. A fool like you should just stay away from any of my posts. Go watch Canadian football, all the Great White Hopes you'll ever need.