Zulu Cthulhu
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Posts posted by Zulu Cthulhu
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As I say, if you want to talk about the Halls' rules, fine, start another thread about it. It may be a legit concern, but it doesn't connect to what Polian said.
Polian said he didn't belong in the HOF, and he doubtless means based on how people do or don't belong. As things stand.
Fine. Start a thread about it. But of course you can pick and choose. Everybody does, in every decision they make. It's just what gets included and excluded. There have to be guidelines, even if the guidelines are that everything should be considered.
Your objections don't seem crazy to me at all, they just seem irrelevant to what Polian said.
That's fair - I am hesitant to beat that horse again in a new thread since there were so many last month.
To Polian's comments specifically, I wonder if his opinion extends to someone like Marshawn, who'll probably get serious consideration when he becomes eligible.
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Even the ones he threw under the bus?
Yes even Donovan McNabb.
Look, it's pretty clear the HOF is occupied by certain people who aren't exactly paragons of humanity, OJ being only the most prominent example. But if people want to disregard the non-football stuff I get it. But to then attempt to assign a value to a player's "teammate-ness," or whatever you want to call it, is folly. Can we claim that all the of players in the HOF currently were good teammates? Can we know for sure? Well, I'd look no further than some of the Super Bowl era Bills that have recently been inducted. During that time and since, many local writers have shared stories about the fractiousness within the locker room at times. So were Jim, Bruce, Thurman always great teammates? Probably not, but they still got in with relative ease (not Andre.) But on the field, they all proved their worth. TO did as well.
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Hearsay from teammates and anecdotal evidence is exactly the kind of thing that should be considered when you're looking at the locker room.
But as I understand it, you're arguing that the hearsay evidence from teammates should be ignored while the hearsay evidence from a guy who had nothing to do with him or his career concerning a situation that never came to trial should be convincing evidence not only that someone doesn't belong in the Hall, but that he belongs in jail.
This makes absolutely zero sense at all. Not least because of that pesky "innocent till proven guilty" thing we have in reference to criminal trials in this country. But also in dismissing hearsay evidence from teammates while totally buying into it in a criminal case.
In any case, Polian is addressing whether he belongs in the Hall of Fame. So, of course the guidelines for whether guys should get into the Hall of Fame should be considered in his analysis and any analysis of the situation.
If you want to argue that you don't like the guidelines, fine. I'm just not interested in that argument, personally, it may be legit but it doesn't belong in the discussion of Polian's comments. Polian was commenting on whether he belongs and that's clearly based on current guidelines. Again, his comment is reasonable. It's just that simple. Again, not that everyone should have to agree, but his argument makes sense.
My Harrison example definitely is pertinent to Polian's comments, because Polian was Harrison's strongest supporter after he failed to get voted in, even calling for "investigations" into the voting process in the aftermath.
However you are right - Harrison was never prosecuted, much less convicted, for the shooting or the related murder. There were only allegations made by eyewitnesses. Pretty serious allegations, though - one guy did end up dead after all. I'd argue then that the allegations can still be pertinent when considering someone's character as a whole. That the HOF rules dismiss this from consideration is bogus in my view. Here's a good overview of the Harrison ordeal, in case any of you are curious and haven't read it, btw: http://www.gq.com/story/marvin-harrison
Terrell Owens, similarly, was never convicted of anything. But over his playing career he sure was subject to a lot of allegations (mostly by out-of-touch media members, many of the same ones voting to keep him out of the HOF now.) Sure, even some ex-teammates made allegations about TO's character, his supposed disruptive nature, etc. Yet TO continued to produce at an elite level over a very long career on a comparatively small number of teams. Owners, coaches and quarterbacks that TO actually played for and with have said (in public even! imagine that) that he belongs in the hall. But the voters chose to sweep all that aside and let the allegations sway their votes.
All I'm saying is you can't pick and choose. The voting rules need to be changed. Would it not be fairer to simply judge based on candidates' actual production on the field? The stuff that can be objectively measured and compared? Doesn't seem that crazy to me.
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It's not like he's alone. So yeah, really. T.O. didn't get voted in. Polian's got a legitimate point of view. The Hall of Fame says consider only what happened on the field, but that the field can be extended into the locker room, the training facilities and camp, etc. So for those here talking about crimes and drug use, the voters are specifically told not to consider that, whereas breaking up team harmony and blatantly not even trying for several years in Moss' case are allowed to be considered.
The argument's not crazy at all.
Doesn't mean everyone has to agree, but what he's saying, though not particularly popular, isn't unreasonable.
I think everyone knows what the stated HOF "guidelines" for the voters are, the point is that methodology is BS. Allowing the voters to consider a candidate's worthiness as a "teammate" based on hearsay and other anecdotal evidence strays into making value judgments that these writers aren't qualified to make. But since they are allowed to make them, apparently, it makes even less sense to then turn around and forbid the voters from considering other factors that, rightly or wrongly, also factor into making value judgments about candidates. For instance, a man opening fire on a busy street with two handguns in broad daylight might make me, for one, determine that that man is an unhinged thug who belongs in prison, not the pro football hall of fame.
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PROVING why Bill Polian is a giant among men in the NFL executive universe and architect of our great dynasty in the AFC. Spot on.
I sincerely hope this is sarcasm.
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Well we definitely agree on this.The total rebuild stuff is nonsense.
Competent organizations can retool on the go and you'd have to assume that Whaley and McDermott consider themselves competent, regardless of what anyone else thinks.
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How does retaining TT but releasing Shady support a total rebuild? Please provide me with the inside scoop from all your "sources"
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Antonio Brown says hello. Hawkins is a slot receiver. There are lots of small, quick slot receivers flourishing at the moment. This isn't 2004 anymore. Hawkins would be a nice addition in that role.
Yup. I'd take him in a heartbeat what with the corpses on the WR unit currently (minus Watkins).
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No version of this "rumor" surfaced a couple weeks ago. Jay Skurski's BN article from 2/17, in which he offered a several scenarios for creating cap space by cutting players, offered up the idea that McCoy could create space by being designated a 6/1 cut. That's true. Skurski's article is simply not the same as taking an instagram post out of context and reading non-existent tea leaves.
The more important take away from Skursk's piece is what such a scenario would mean; chiefly that it's a major sign pointing towards a tear down and complete rebuild vs. a reload.
Thanks K-9 for actually clearning up what exactly Badol was talking about.
Again, the OP may well have additional information, and it would be very Billsy to cut their best offensive player. My only point was I thought it was very coincidental that the post was created almost exactly the same time the dumb reactions to the instagram post about the autograph signing starting happening (Wawrow debunked the twitter trolls right away, btw). Not when Skurski posted his article, nor when any other trade/release rumors were circulating.
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That is what I thought. You didn't know. Because you get your info here.......from linksters. The story was on TBD.......just not linked on TSW......for ahem, some reason.
Keep one thing in mind.......this site is a form of entertainment.........try not to be too thin skinned.......I've been here 20 years and could not care less about my "look" to you relative newbs.
Must be getting salty in your old age then because you're laying on the snark pretty thick. Again, and hopefully this is the last time I'll need to repeat it for you - whenever the rumor started was not my point. The thread was started almost simultaneously with the instagram post reactions. I just found that a little coincidental and commented. And haven't seen any follow up info from the OP, so I'm going to go with my first assumption that there are no real credible sources. Unless you can provide some old timer.
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Yeah if it was some clown who is always wrong....... like Ryan L pimping for CJ, EJ, SJ......anyone ending in J apparently.......for instance....... it would be very sketchy.
jmc has been a solid poster.
As for it coming out of the blue.........no the subject popped up a couple of weeks ago.
The usual linksters who start a thread for EVERY reported bowel movement in Orchard Park......yoyo and 26BF........chose not to address it......which runs contrary to their typically unedited approach to linking such stories.
So basically, you trusted them and they violated you guys.
Yeah if it was some clown who is always wrong....... like Ryan L pimping for CJ, EJ, SJ......anyone ending in J apparently.......for instance....... it would be very sketchy.
jmc has been a solid poster.
As for it coming out of the blue.........no the subject popped up a couple of weeks ago.
The usual linksters who start a thread for EVERY reported bowel movement in Orchard Park......yoyo and 26BF........chose not to address it......which runs contrary to their typically unedited approach to linking such stories.
So basically, you trusted them and they violated you guys.
Whether or not a version of this particular rumor surfaced a couple weeks ago as you say, I don't know. This thread didn't surface weeks ago though. It appeared exactly when I said it did, shortly after McCoy's instagram post was misinterpreted badly and taken out of context. So you basically refuted nothing I said, and took the opportunity to take some more cheap shots at posters you disagree with. Not a good look chief.
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From what I have seen of the OP's posts he's been a very thoughtful and astute poster.
For all the talk about "fake news"......we actually see less "fake source" stuff here than we used to.
The reality is that we don't know.........and it would make sense from an immediate cap saving perspective + scheme misfit + timing/incentive for McCoy getting another dip at guaranteed $ in FA before he wraps it up in the next couple years.
Respectfully disagree. This board used to have one or two very reliable posters with inside sources (I forget their handles at the moment) whose predictions were always on point (especially around draft time). They've left and I can't say I blame them.
It's fine to relay clickbait or speculate. But it should be indicated as such, not as "inside info" from "my sources." Funny this thread popped up right after the first clickbait take on McCoy's instagram post popped up from some no name on twitter, huh?
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You are getting trolled. This thread needs to be closed b.c a lot of people here don't know this is fake.
People lie here all the time about having "sources," when they just regurgitated up something they saw on twitter. Sometimes it still results in good discussion however.
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This is what someone I know in the organization said too. They are a player - that's all I'll say. They are considering trading Watkins too. There is an internal struggle going on: total rebuild or making one last run with these players.
No decision has been made yet though. But trading Watkins and shady is on the table according to one of our players.
If true, Whaley should be shuffled out the door immediately after McCoy and Watkins. I've zero confidence in Doug conducting a complete tear down and rebuild.
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Yet we STILL only managed a sub .500 season. Which has been my point all along. How much value is a special running back really worth.
We arent cutting McCoy, hes fun to watch,hes good, he should be and will be a Bill in 2017, but people acting like he will lead us out of the dark ages to the promised land, are just... Confused.
No one seems confused except you. No one here is claiming McCoy is single-handedly going to lead this team anywhere. He is only one guy after all. Just happens to be the best offensive player on the team though, and a proven elite talent. Releasing him makes a mediocre team worse, that's really all I (and others above) are saying.
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It baffles me that anyone would actually run with this obvious click bait and advocate the release of the team's best offensive player. Cap room can be saved elsewhere. And while McCoy's running style may not perfectly mesh with the new regime's running game philosophy, McCoy's proven over multiple years to be an elite back and seems versatile enough to produce in most systems.
Gillislee has been a revelation and perhaps the best spell RB in the league, but he is utterly unproven as an every down back and no one can claim with certainty that he could assume that role and succeed.
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It's not? Of course it is. Or at least as relevant as points scored. Total yardage can shed light on offensive efficiency, the ability to sustain long drives and control time of possession, etc. It's why it's one of the most basic team stats tracked and published by, oh let's see, everyone.The offense was top 10. The yards gained or allowed statistic is not a good way to judge an offense or defense.
Again, cherry picking statistics to fit your offensive preference is not an argument.
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Really? So you feel it's better to scrap our top ten scoring offense in order to avoid watching a 150 yard passing performance per game. I would prefer to keep the successful offense and focus on a defense that ranked 30th.
Yes really. And even if I didn't want anything to change, my point was it's going to. That's the reality.
I cherry picked a team offensive statistic that backed up my opinion, same as you keep doing. Scoring all those points is great, but I'd much rather score the same amount a points utilizing a more balanced system, rather than the most recent one that put the team at a disadvantage when and if they fell behind late in games.
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I highly doubt the new head coach hired the new offensive coordinator to simply ape the system of the guys who were canned. These notions of "it ain't broke" don't play in the real world with turnover in the coaching staff and players on team that still, STILL has not made the playoffs in forever.
And no, I do not want to sit and watch the offense throw for 150 yards a game again.
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Pretty funny. Honestly better than 95% of the attempts at humor or snark on here 👍🏼
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season ticket holders did get 10% discount on each ticket. The Bills have removed that this year.
For real? Good god. My buddy handles our invoice and I hadn't heard that from him yet. Not a good look to keep individual game tickets flat and remove that discount though. I've only been a season ticket holder since '07, but the fatigue is already setting in given the team's performance.
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Randy Moss says hi.
We'll say 2nd or 3rd (post Rice era). Reasonable minds can disagree. But that's us, and we don't get a HOF vote. Vic does.
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One thing that is worth saying.... fair play to Vic for coming out and admitting he was one of those against and setting out his reasons - as much as I disagree with him. Easy to hide behind collective decision making.
Fair. Maybe TO goes in next year then and they make Moss wait a year as well. I just know that TO's childish rant will not have helped his case. Imperfect humans judging imperfect humans.
I said something similar before but yes - as abhorrent as Vic's article is at least he came out with his stance publicly. I think most of this nonsense starts and stops with this anonymity these guys enjoy, as if they sre voting for the next pope or something.
As far as Moss goes, he, in public, explicity, told the media that he tries when he wants to. Cant find TO ever saying something similar, and I've looked because this has infuriated me over the past week. But Moss has pressed the right flesh since retirement and it wouldnt surprise me if he got in since he's got a job in the media so he's in the club now. Love to know Vic's opinion on Moss.
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I'm glad to see those of you late to the party now realize what many of us have been saying about Vic since he returned to Buffalo.
The guy has lost it.
What an embarrassment.
Again, Amen. I'm embarrassed myself for not realizing it earlier.
running backs
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
4th round or later, sure. Before that, no.