folz

There are so many, but I don't see how it could be anything but Super Bowl XXV. The Miracle that wasn't and Ronnie Harmon's drop were devastating (amongst others) but to this day just as I salivate if I happen to hear the Monday Night Football theme in the summer, I wince with pain whenever I hear "Wide Right". My 10 year old nephew is too young to remember most of the games we're talking about. But he was at the Monday Night game against Dallas last year. He was so depressed afterwards. And I told him, "Today you have become a true Bills fan." I don't know if it made him feel any better, but somehow it made me feel better. It was like his right of passage or final initiation into the Buffalo faithful.

I'm no expert on the different types of defenses, but just going on what I see and what Marv and Jauron have said that they want, it seems like getting Walker could definitely help the run game...even if it wasn't his strength in Philly (i.e., their system). I know we've all gotten used to the big line stuffing defensive tackles (Washington, Williams, Adams) but what the Bills have been saying about how they want to play defense is that they want penetrating DTs. So, correct me if I'm wrong (those who have a better football IQ), but it seems there are two ways to go about stopping the run (in simple): 1. Have big DTs clogging up the middle (either closing run lanes or collapsing the pocket; maintaing or pushing the LOS) and the linebackers playing lanes [meeting backs in the holes, hopefully at the line of scrimmage (if the DTs hold)]. OR 2. Have DTs who penetrate (which if they're good at that I imagine OLmen would often be turning their bodies sideways to stop that rush), which means you have fast, attacking LBs (as Marv has been saying) who can shoot past the off balance linemen before they have time to recover and hopefully hit the back or QB in the backfield. They're not standing tall in a hole ready to lay some lumber, but shooting the gap and trying to disrupt the play before it gets started. And the speed of the LBs doesn't hurt in pass coverage either. Both systems have been successful...you just have to have the right type of players for that system...and just because we were bad against the run last year didn't mean we were going to go out and sign or draft a big run-stuffing nose tackle...maybe what we lacked in this system last year was that penetration from the DTs and the speed from the LBs. So if that was the case (feel free to disagree)...we may have just taken care of one of those needs (at the same time as dropping some big salaries), so now we just need another fast attacking LB (and some LB depth) to be better against the run next season. A healthy McCargo won't hurt either. And just wanted to add (forgive me while I sip some kool-aid): it's nice having a front office again who have a plan and do what they say they're going to...address the lines, get character players. And they show class themselves (not tagging Clements again, sending TKO to a playoff contender), they work out fair deals that aren't just for show (and who cares if we got the better of the other team or not, a great deal is both teams improving from it, unless they're in your division of course) So, I'm confident that Marv will stay true to his word and get a fast, attacking LB (probably in the draft)... keep it going Marv...(RB 2nd round?)

After Marv mentioned him last week, I was just curious to find out more about him and found this article. I pulled some selections from it (in bold): http://www.nfleurope.com/teams/story/RHE/9398452 Whether returning, rushing or receiving, Fire running back Fred Jackson gets the job done. This season Jackson gained countless extra-effort yards after initial contact. He’s totaled 644 combined net yards this season and is the only running back of the top three in the league to have balanced yardage (rushing and receiving) across the board. Jackson makes a living by being versatile, and offensive coordinator Steve Logan says he couldn’t ask for more. “His lower body strength has been the most surprising thing for me. He’s a real slender hip athlete, but he’s incredibly strong in the lower body and his yards after contact are impressive,” said Logan. “And to top it off, his hands are impeccable and he catches everything thrown to him.” On just about every play this season, opposing defenders have had the hit-and-miss syndrome when it comes to tackling Jackson. This may have something to do with his uncanny ability to change direction at the drop of a dime, those nimble hip movements Logan alluded to or, even easier, just his perseverance. “He’s exactly the guy you’re looking for,” said Logan. “You want him on your team and in your locker room. He’s quiet, serious about what he does, has a good sense of humor, a real mild spirit, and he’s just been a pleasure to have.” Now before anyone jumps on, I'm not saying he should be or is going to be our featured back by posting this (I was just curious to find out more about him)...and we all know that competition in D-III, the Indoor League, and even NFL Europe is no where near the NFL so the Bills would be stupid not to still draft a RB in the first few rounds of the draft (which I'm sure they will). But he definitely sounds like the type of back Marv is looking for (and not just because of the Coe college connection): He avoids tackles and gets yards after contact while running and is a receiving threat (those first two sound a lot like TT...remember how he could avoid getting hit even while crashing through the middle of the line...unlike a recent Bills RB). Jackson can also play STs (kick returner), and seems to be a high character guy who has excelled everytime he has had to take a step up in competition level. So if Jackson can take that next step, we draft a RB and perhaps a FB, maybe resign A-train, and then there's Shaud...we might not be so bad off at RB this year...we may not have a true featured back, but it will be a versatile backfield that should leave a lot of options open for playcalling.

Agreed! There are so many ways to go in rebuilding a team and I'm sure fixing the OL first is a solid way to go, but I think fixing the Defense first can also work--just can't get it all done in one or maybe even two years. This is where I give Levy/Jauron the benefit of the doubt for now; that they have a plan that will sooner (hopefully) rather than later address all weaknesses on the team.

Yes, Youboty was selected to hopefully fill Nate's spot. I don't think it was an afterthought, but once they got to the third round maybe he was the best player on their board and knowing they'd probably lose Nate next year they made the pick as protection. But we all know not every pick hits, or some guys take longer to develop. I'm just saying if they pick another CB it is because they think they need to fill that position (no confidence in Youboty or he needs more time to develop) rather than some penchant Marv has for drafting CBs. I don't think they'd pass up a better player at a need position just to stack the roster with CBs. And Marv gets a pass because he proved to me a long time ago that he knows the game of football and even though GM is a different job I haven't seen anything yet to make me think he's lost it or the game has passed him by. Good draft (even if some think he should have addressed other positions than they did), brought in a coach who can be trusted and who has experience (how good a coach he is of course could be debated, but...), improved record in the first year (even if only by 2 games), and a community spirit being rebuilt amongst the team and fans (I do think this is important to the team and it definitely is to me as a fan--that's why I'm a Bills fan). But, if Marv starts making idiotic moves and ruining the team, I'll be the first one to say we should move on and find a new GM. But, for now, yes he gets a pass from me. That's another point where I think people misinterpret what Marv means when he says "character." While I don't think he wants any players who are drug addicts or convicts, I think he is talking about: Do they love the game, do they play hard on every down, do they work hard in practice and the off-season, do they always want to improve, are they a team player (putting team success above individual accolades), etc. Again all my original post was saying was let's see what this off season brings first. If he doesn't address the lines at all, I'll agree with you that it was a mistake...but let's see what happens before we assume he's going to pick 3 DBs again and forget about every other position on the field. Another reason why Marv gets the benefit of the doubt from me right now (especially if people are bringing up his draft history) during the Superbowl years, five out of seven starting linemen were drafted (3 by Levy/Polian--2 before they came), Kent Hull came with Marv and Jim from the USFL, and John Davis came via free agency. They didn't draft a lot of OL, but then, they didn't need too, that line held together for quite a few years. In Marv's first draft as GM he selected 3 OL players (granted they weren't high picks, but then he and Polian found House Ballard in the 11th round). And again I think it's Donahoe hangover as far as picking up other teams's OL trash...although Marv did bring in Reyes (who hasn't worked out) and Fowler (who played decent) last year, he also admitted this year that they still need to address the line further. That line was such a mess before last year that he had to try something...he wasn't going to be able to draft 3 or 4 rookie OL players and start them and have them become an above average line so sure he picked up some FAs. But, if he didn't pick up any FAs you'd complain he didn't address the line. The key will be can Levy help to find better linemen (either in the draft or FA) than Donahoe could. I hope the answer to that will be yes. (and Anderson and Gandy were Donahoe guys--hangover?).

I've heard quite a few people on this board mention Marv's propensity for drafting defensive backs early as a way to deride his GM capabilities, so (memory not serving) I went to look it up: In the 10 drafts that occured while Marv was coach, the Bills had 8-1st round choices, 12-2nd round picks, and 12-3rd round picks Of the 8 1st round picks the Bills selected 3 DBs (Henry Jones '91, Thomas Smith '93, Jeff Burris '94) Of the 12 2nd round picks the Bills selected 2 DBs (Nate Odomes '87, Roland Mitchell '87) Of the 12 3rd round picks the Bills selected 3 DBs (Darryl Wren '91, Marlon Kerner '95, Matt Stevens '96) Total: 8 of 32 picks on DBs in rounds 1-3 (or 25% of our picks for a position that is 18-22% of our starting line-up--18% for 4 starters, 22% if you counted nickel spot) So, I guess I can see where people with this perspective are coming from, but football being what it is you have to take a lot of factors into account such as we selected very low in the draft order from 1991-1995, the 3 DBs we selected in the first round were taken 26th, 28th, and 27th overall. Most of the star players were off the board...and maybe DB was a safer pick at that spot...another reason was we had lost Nate Odomes after the '93 season and had to replace him (ergo the Smith and Burris picks), etc. etc.--Not to mention that 3 of those first 5 day-one selections worked out pretty well for the Bills. I also think that some people have Donahoe hangover...we just couldn't believe that he wouldn't address the lines in the draft, so when Marv didn't use any high picks on the lines in his first draft people wanted to jump all over Marv (he did pick 5 linesmen though) and so those people went back to Marv's past to point out how many DBs he's selected (as if by himself and apparently just because he likes DBs). But how many of you (looking back now) think we would have been ok with Vincent and Milloy at safety all year last year (and in the new scheme). And even if they did ok last year, they both would have needed to be replaced this year due to age and we would have had to draft DBs this year instead of last. And of course Youbouty was picked up in case Nate walked this year, we don't know what we have there yet, but you can't say DB wasn't a need position... BUT WHAT I FOUND MORE INTERESTING as I was looking back was this: Bills draft 1987 (Marv's 1st--not in draft order) 2 DBs, 2 DTs, 1 OL, 2 LBs, 2 RBs TE, DE Bills draft 2006 (Marv's 1st as GM-- " " " " ) 3 DBs, 2 DTs, 3 OL, 1 LB (only 9 picks in 2006 instead of 11 in '87) Maybe he's following a plan that was successful for him in the past...not that this team and the team of '87-'88 have the same needs, but in 1988 without a 1st round pick, the Bills chose a hall of fame RB in the 2nd and a WR in the 3rd (in the '88 and '89 draft no DB was selected higher than the 5th round)...looking at this, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see us pick up a RB in the 2nd or 3rd round this year (if Marv stays true to his old form) and I also wouldn't be so quick in pigeon-holing Marv's drafts even if we have to pick up another corner this year to hopefully fill the hole Nate will leave. Final note (in a long post, sorry): Get over the fact that Marv doesn't spend all his time thinking about the cap. He was hired for the following reasons: To bring a high-character, blue-collar, family atmosphere back to the Bills after Ol' Whitey took that away from us and the players; to be democratic not autocratic; to keep Ralph informed in what's going on; and to find the right players to try to build a championship team, as he has done before (albeit AFC champs not Superbowl). And he's not running things on his own, he has Modrak (a former GM, which I think some people forget), and Overdorf and his team to deal with cap, contracts and the like. Modrak could be a GM elsewhere, do you think Marv "Mr. Consensus" Levy doesn't listen to him or take his advice? Do you think Overdorf isn't right there as they make decisions telling Marv what consequences a move will have on the cap? Come on.....let's see what this off-season brings before we run Marv out of town for not knowing all the cap figures or for picking too many DBs... Go get 'em Marv.

Sorry if this issue has been beaten to death and right up front I want to say that I don't claim to understand all of the nuances of the salary cap, but I don't think "spending to the cap" is a bad thing and means we are doomed. I started searching the net to find out some more info regarding Marv's spend to the cap statement...here are a few things I found. My comments are in ital. 'Patriots owner Robert Kraft yesterday guaranteed the team will spend to the salary cap in an effort to improve a squad that fell one minute short of the Super Bowl. “We’re different than some teams. We’re not just planning for this year. We’re trying to be good for a number of years. Our management team has shown over the last four to five years that wise planning has allowed us to stay in the hunt.” ' 'General manager Jerry Angelo (Bears) and his management team have secured admirable salary-cap health by using the so-called Philadelphia method of identifying top players when they are young and signing them to long-term deals before they hit the free-agent market.' 'The Colts were built through the draft, with Polian joking that people in Indianapolis think he's ''oh-for-free agency.'' They drafted 15 of the 22 players who will start in the Super Bowl. But the Colts have handed out big money despite drafting most of their players because, unlike the Bears, they have allowed many of their players to get to the cusp of free agency before cutting deals.' (Seems Marv and co. are following the example of successful teams...sign your young up and coming free agents, pick up other team's young, upcoming free agents who fit your team when available, build through the draft, and don't work for just this year but to "stay in the hunt" for a number of years to come--i.e., don't overpay for players and amorotize the future. Seems like a good plan since 1. many name free agents are past their prime or you would have to mortgage the future for and, 2. Spending like mad doesn't always equal wins--see Redskins, Falcons, Raiders, etc. ) What does the term "cash over cap" mean? To comprehend the concept of cash over cap, one has to understand that the salary cap is just a bookkeeping number, one that can be massaged by amortizing signing bonuses, among other mechanisms. The cap has never been indicative of a team's payroll. For example, the Redskin organization, believed to be the highest revenue-producing machine in the league, has had payrolls well over $100 million the last few seasons, even while the highest salary cap level ever was in 2005, at $85.5 million. The difference between a team's true payroll and its salary cap number is essentially what "cash over cap" means. How does it make good business or football sense for that matter to spend over the cap? Its worked out really well for the Redskins, right? So, if every team reached the cap figure last year of $102 mil. (not all did of course) then only the Falcons and Seahawks spent cash over the cap. One made the playoffs and one did not. If I'm not mistaken with this info, then only 1 of the 12 playoff teams from last year spent cash over the cap, everyone else spent to or under the cap--feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that. 'Pro football's New England Patriots team has become the dynasty of this era—with three Super Bowl titles in five years and a first-round playoff win last Sunday to advance in post-season play. Yet, its payroll for players—$81.1 mil. annually—ranks the Boston-area club just 16th of 32 teams in 2006. And it's not just the Patriots that succeed without big spending. The Indianapolis Colts finished the season with one of the best won/lost records at 12-4, yet its player payroll ranks just 29th. The NFL's top spender is the Atlanta Falcons with a $110.2 mil. player payroll (including Vick's contract). The Falcons finished this season 7-9 and missed the playoffs.' NFL 2006 team payrolls (not including coaching staffs) 1. Falcons - $109,047,453 2 Seahawks - $102,596,922 3 Broncos - $91,284,403 4 Panthers - $90,829,296 5 Raiders - $89,442,910 6 Rams - $88,992,209 7 Jaguars - $88,106,094 8 Ravens - $88,106,094 9 Texans - $88,106,094 10 Dolphins - $87,597,555 11 Cardinals - $85,445,369 12 Chiefs - $85,398,705 13 Giants - $84,843,650 14 Steelers - $83,424,393 15 Vikings - $83,188,187 16 Patriots - $82,399,025 17 Bears - $82,142,344 18 Jets - $81,835,781 19 Saints - $79,058,432 20 Bengals - $77,955,994 21 Eagles - $76,640,305 22 Buccaneers - $76,227,536 23 Cowboys - $75,908,597 24 Lions - $74,888,321 25 Redskins - $73,790,565 26 49ers - $73,258,880 27 Browns - $70,719,178 28 Chargers - $70,551,560 29 Colts - $65,472,365 30 Packers - $64,396,429 31 Titans - $63,107,598 32 Bills - $61,982,732 I know most will be upset to see Buffalo at 32 and moan that Ralph won't pay out, but remember how young our team was last year (which means a lot of inexpensive contracts). But also note the playoff teams from this past year were ranked 2, 8, 12, 13, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 23, 28, and the SB champion Colts were 29th. Only 1 team in the top 7 payrolls made the playoffs. It's not about who spends the most, but who spends the most wisely. Spending to the cap doesn't mean we won't/can't go after any free agents...but of course some will say it does price us out of the top free agents (or resigning Clements) but I think we need at least one more season of building the core and depth of the team before 1 or 2 top free agents could take us to the Superbowl anyhow. And forking out huge signing bonuses for other team's FAs is not how the last 4-6 superbowls were won, so I think the plan Marv and co. have is a good one. In another thread I also read that in order for the Bills to get to the SB with their current strategy they would have to out-scout and out-teach the other teams in the league...but isn't that what people have been saying that Pioli/Belichick and Polian/Dungy have done? Of course you have to have a top-notch front office and coaching staff to win it all. Here's hoping Marv/Jauron are giving us that and with time... I welcome any comments, discussion, arguments especially from those who feel they have a better handle on salary cap issues than I do.

Ah to dream for one more week> Based on Chris Brown's playoff scenarios here's what needs to happen: The Bills 6-7 (remaining games: MIA, TENN, @BAL) must win out, of course. No easy task. Cinncinati 8-5 (@IND, DEN, PITT) would need to lose 3 of 3 for the Bills to be ahead of them, which probably won't happen, so I'll say Cincy takes the first wild card spot. (Cincy as of now has the tiebbreaker over the Bills) Then we would need the following things to happen to steal the second wild card spot: Jacksonville 8-5 (@TENN, NE, @KC) would have to lose 2 of their last 3 games. (Bills own tiebreaker) Denver 7-6 (@ARZ, CINN, SF) would have to lose 2 of their last 3 games. (Denver owns tiebreaker) The Jets 7-6 (@MINN, @MIA, OAK) would have to either lose at Miami, or if they beat Miami lose to both Minn and Oak. (If they lose to Miami, Bills would have tiebreaker) The Chiefs 7-6 (@IND, DEN, PITT) would have to lose 1 of their next 3 games. (Bills own tiebreaker) Tiebreakers above are of course dependent on the Bills winning out. (We have tiebreakers over Mia, Tenn, Pitt so they would be eliminated if we win out) Stranger things have happened, but we still need to win out and get a lot of help. But we can all keep dreaming for at least one more week. Let's go Buffalo!

We all know a lot of first round QB picks flop. Why? If they're picked in the first round then they obviously have the tools. I think the above poster hit on one of the reasons. If a team is picking a QB in the first round, many times its because the team isn't very good, or they're rebuilding. A young QB who has always been a star comes in, probably needing a few years to develop. But they throw him on the field right away. He makes his rookie mistakes and the team doesn't start miraculaously winning all of their games and the fans and media jump all over him. Some guys just crack under that pressure...but JP has not. With all of the scrutiny and the benchings last year, he never lost his confidence and keeps improving. Mental toughness is a big part of this game and it looks like JP has that. Only time will tell how much better his timing, decision making, touch passes, etc. will get...but he's not going to fold under the pressure and that's a guy you want in there when the game is on the line. And I can kind of understand the poster who wants more passing yards...again its the old Buffalo problem of recognition. If JP was throwing for over 300 yards a game and 2 or 3 TDs and Willis broke 100 yds every week, we'd get more attention from the media and they'd be talking about our team and our guys...but there's a better way to get that recognition...just win baby! Go Bills.

Sorry if talking about the schedule is a worn out topic on the board, but... I was just looking at the Bills schedule again wondering how different it looks with two weeks of NFL football in the books...now we all know two games does not a season make, some teams start hot and collapse, while others start slow and then get hot as the season goes on...but I couldn't help looking at what could be, based on the first two weeks...guess I'm just still excited about squishin' the Fish! Very winnable games (no game is a gimme..but you gotta like the Bills chances in these games): Jets (in Buff) Detroit Green Bay (in Buff) Houston Dolphins (in Buff, in Dec.) Titans (in Buff, in Dec.) Winnable games (tougher games but the Bills will still have a good chance): Vikings (in Buff) Patriots (in Buff) (Pats may still have the edge at this point--they always seem to find a way to win--but they didn't walk over Buffalo or the Jets to get to 2-0...and hopefully the 12th man will be alive and well that day) at the Jets (may be a tougher out in NYC--I mean Jersey--and division games are always tough) The Tough ones (Might be tough to beat these teams this year...but you never know) Da Bears (don't forsee a good reunion for Jauron this week) Colts (Manning, need I say more?) Jags (in Buff) (Their defense looks stifling) San Diego (in Buff) (1, 2 run punch...better hope our run defense improves alot) Ravens (tough D, tough win..unless the Birds are as good as they look and are resting a bunch of guys for the playoffs) So if you were to count all of the Tough games as losses...with the week one loss to NE, it equals 6 losses. That means we have the potential for 10 wins...not saying we'll get it, but if the ball bounces our way its a possibility. Even if we only win 1 of the winnable games (the second category above) we'd still be 8-8 which is more than a lot of people thought we'd be (and a hell of alot better than last season). But I'm rooting that all the stars align and we can scratch out 9 or 10 wins and make the playoffs (even if we couldn't go anywhere once there, just to get that winning feeling back...and then next year Super Bowl)...one can dream can't one And as a New York City Bills fan (originally from Western NY)...can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to, first, Sunday, and then Monday...talking to J-E-T-S fans and rubbing it in.

Sorry for the long post...but hope you read it. I have to agree with MDH. I read an article recently (sorry, can't remember where...but probably related to the Bills) that was talking about how hard it was for coaches to get into the HOF. And one of the things that the voters discuss is how innovative was the coach, did he change or have an affect on the game and how its played? Look at the list of HOFers who were innovators on top of their great records and titles George Allen: "The Future is Now" theme; innovated trades in the league, bringing in vets by giving up future draft choices. Paul Brown: credited w/ making coaching a science (using classroom style/intelligence tests), innovated passing game and created a defense to stop his innovation when other teams started using it. Weeb Eubank: Jets SB victory in SB III brought fans to the game and solidified NFL/AFL merger. Ray Flaherty: Introduced the screen pass and the two platoon (rotation) system to the game. Sid Gillman: "If you want to ring the cash register you have to pass" brought passing game innovations and organizational skills that were copied league wide. George Halas: 1st coach to hold daily practices, utilize film, have games broadcast on the radio. Earl Lambeau: 1st coach to make the forward pass part of the offense. Tom Landry: Perfected the flex defense, the multiple offense and revived the shotgun spread. Marv Levy: Revived importance of the kicking game; No-huddle attack. Earle Neale: Developed Eagle defense which became today's 4-3 defense. Chuck Noll: Innovated how teams dealt with the draft, built team almost exclusively through the draft and shrewd moves on draft day. Steve Owen: Developed the umbrella defense and A-formation offense. Hank Stram: Devised the two TE offense and stack defense. Bill Walsh: developed the west coast style passing game. All of those guys had great records and won 1 or more NFL championships (except for Marv-but 2 Gray Cups, 6 AFC titles, and 4 SB appearences isn't too shaby). Now how many coaches are there in the Hall who aren't credited with an innovation of some sort and how did they get in without being an innovator: Guy Chamberlin: 4 NFL Championships with 3 different teams in a 5 year span; 2 undefeated seasons as player/coach. Jimmy Conzelman: Was a player/coach/owner; 2 NFL titles w/two different teams. Joe Gibbs: Only coach to win 3 SBs w/3 different QBs. Bud Grant: 11 divisional Championships; went to 4 SBs and won one. Vince Lombardi: NEVER had a losing season. Nuff said. (5 NFL titles and 2 SBs). John Madden: 10 years w/ Raiders never had a losing season, highest winning pct. of any coach with more than 100 games. 1 SB title. Don Shula: Winningest coach in NFL history; 33 years with two teams only 2 losing seasons; 1972 undefeated season. Coached in 6 SBs won 2. So, it seems to me that a coach (on top of needing to have a great record and championships) has to have either impacted the game in some way (innovations), proven himself with more than one team and or QB (in Gibbs' situation), or simply be one of the absolute best of all times. Using this criteria Billy B and Billy P are the only coaches now that I would feel comfortable saying are locks. Have any of the other coaches in the league today brought innovations to the game? Proven themselves in more than one place? Or will be considered one of the absolute best ever (on top of having great records and championships)? Look forward to hearing arguments for other guys under these conditions (Holmgren, Shanahan?)

I liked the above post and pretty much agreed...His final analysis seems to be for players still on the team, but in fairness I would go by his words "players worth keeping" and add T Henry and J Jennings as players worth keeping and as starting caliber, even though they're no longer with the team. Travis obviously wasn't one of the premiere backs in the league while in Buffalo, but you can't discount what he did on the field for this team...he was definitely starting caliber. Then I saw Bob in STL's post that said, "Free agency has a lot to do with keeping players and it would be ineteresting to know how many players a team like New england has kept from those same three years." So I thought I'd do a little digging... Patriots Drafts (player info according to NFL.com and Patriots.com) 2001 1st (round) Richard Seymour DT (starter w/Patriots) 2nd Matt Light G (starter w/Patriots) 3rd Brock Williams DB (Out of the League (OL) 4th Kenyatta Jones G (OL) 4th Jabari Holloway TE (OL) 5th Hakim Akbar DB (OL) 6th Arther Love TE (OL) 6th Leonard Myers DB (OL) 7th Owen Pochman K (OL) 7th TJ Turnwe LB (OL) 2002 1st Daniel Graham TE (starter w/Patriots) 2nd Deion Branch WR (starter w/Patriots) 4th Rohan Davey QB (ARZ) 7th Antwine Womack RB (OL) 7th David Givens (TEN) 2003 1st Ty Warren DT (starter w/Patriots) 2nd Eugene Wilson DB (starter w/Patriots) 4th Dan Klecko DT (still w/Patriots) 4th Asante Samuel DB (starter w/Patriots) 5th Dan Koppen C (starter w/Patriots) 6th Kliff Kingsbury QB (NYJ) 7th Spencer Nead TE (OL) 7th Tully Banta-Cain LB (starter w/Patriots) 7th Ethan Kelley NT (CLE) So TD's 3-year record: 30 picks, 22 still in the league (73.33%), 14 worth keeping (46.66%), 6 starting caliber (including Henry and Jennings) (20%). Patriots 3-year record: 24 picks, 14 still in the league (58.33%), 11 worth keeping (if you count Givens in that) (45.83%), 10 starting caliber (again if you include Givens who started the majority of games the last two years) (41.66%) So Len P. can congratulate TD all he wants for still having players in the league because TD does have 15% more players still in the league from those three drafts than does NE... But I'd take NE's almost 42% starting caliber players over TD's paltry 20% any day...and that's with NE having 5 fewer 1st day picks in those three drafts. Maybe some of the sports writers/broadcasters really like TD and that's ok, but they do seem overly anxious to criticize the Bills (be it for TD or RW and the CBA)...and they didn't live the last five years as a Bills fan... We Bills fans are starting to see an organization with a plan to rebuild a football team, not just create pre-season excitement and revenue...it may take the media a while to see that...whether the new plan works or not, no one knows yet...but I for one have a feeling that we're crawling slowly out of the cellar that TD's decisions and drafts put us in.