YellowLinesandArmadillos

I agree with you on the the real estate deal, from everything I am hearing it will be at least 2 years and you are right, Obama is going to have a tough road ahead... the jury is out... He is putting his team in place... some I like, some not so much, but the real deal is what policies and actions they pursue.... We shall see.... Show Me as the old saying goes, don't give me another pretty face or present me with a partisan solution.

Palin got crap because she was/is an idiot... Kennedy appears to be well spoken, understand how to deal with the press and has some dignity and understands, having been behind the scenes in a lot of politics, including within her family to at least know what is coming at her from the NY press. That being said, I am not crazy about her being anointed because of her name.... Sounds like the Dems what to make sure they hold on to this Senate Seat and how better than a well known, well liked Candidate with a Kennedy last name.... P.S. Don't compare Palin to her... Palin gives Dan Quayle a bad name.

Please don't insult Patterson that way... givin what he has overcome, you couldn't hold his jock. Agree or disagree with his decisions or policy, but the man is nothing but a gentleman. And I agree, Giuliani is a punk who doesn't practice the crap he shovels. Not sure about Kennedy, nice to look at, seems intelligent.... Might be a little hard for NYers to handle... a good looking smart politician! So in this case Guilliani has to still be in the running.... he more acceptable to NYers

Coleman is an idiot, that being said Franken is a little hard to take.... I could care less for the man, he would be a nice foil for the Dems to deflect Republican hyperbole too and deservedly so. That being said, I would rather beat up on Coleman than have Franken in, unless the one vote can help that much... Coleman makes Franken look smart... both are two of most singularly ill informed "politicians" I have ever met... In Coleman's case the lights are just not on.... Dark, nothing there... Even Bush has more going on than this guy, at least he can duck shoes being thrown at him. In Franken's case it is more like a fading electrical storm... still dangerous and unpredictable, but fading. I would compare him to elderly Denis Kucinich in the House.

OMG, quit your whining already... P.S. We started attacking Bush as bad when he started talking about "edumacation" the moment he took office. And he gave us plenty of fodder.... P.S. That RW quote of a previous Axelrod comment was edited and is not fully what he said. He said the he "assumed", but leaving out a key word is easy to do with the Drudge/OXY Boy crowd.... That being said, forget about the economy, lets talk about something that has nothing to do with the Presidency, but a corrupt arrogant ILL Gov. Meanwhile, we are giving Billions away to Paulson who said "Trust Me." Now where is that bank liquidity Bush and he promised???? Talk about corruption. And in other news some goof from FLA has introduced a bill to privatize Amtrak... wonder who is paying him off... another Brain dead idea. Amtrak may not be perfect, but nothing like privatizing a well used public good to screw it up and make it unusable, while letting more corporate scoundrels steal from the American taxpayer. Follow the money boys. Blago's mistake is that he was asking for money from the wrong people, those who didn't have a lot... It would have been years till he was caught if he worked with the right wing corporate nuts... They know how to intimidate better without getting caught. There is that enough pontificating to balance out this thread for a couple of minutes... probably not, but it is inane... move along... There you go again you bitter Judas knuckle draggers... accept the Messiah his here...

Go away, nothing to see here...

Also, because of the subsidies and anti-labor states they can get a comparative advantage as these states give these foreign cos whatever they want and Japan puts up trade barriers against our companies... Fair should be fair, then I will buy your argument it is the UAW that is the problem

No, but don't pay according to the prevailing wage at some anti-labor states like Alabama where the majority of their people don't care if they live in double wides built years ago.

Because with subsidized healthcare or control health care costs would allow workers in the US to obtain the same benefits their Japanese brethren receive....Apples to Apples, equal compensation? Not new math, but simple math 2=2 unless you are like DC Tom who can make 2 equal whatever he darn well pleases.

Especially when you consider that that $40 -50 million a year combined compensation, half of which over four years... since 2005 would equal 1B and be a start to executive contributing their fare share to the bailout. Yet it is the UAW and all it workers who asked to Rob Peter to pay Paul and keep the big three afloat... Meanwhile Japan subsidized its companies, controls it healthcare cost structure and Toyota claims its workers only cost what $43 an hour.... Fine get the U.S. workers to $51 and then have the government subsidize and set healthcare cost rates... then we are talking apples to apples.

No it would not make up the entire 15 Billion, but in these guys have been getting around this much for the last three years despite their companies losing money. Here is some info on Big Three exec compensation and this is just the top guys: http://www.thekarmareport.com/auto-crisis/...-of-bankruptcy/ http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/02/news/compa...tm?eref=time_us

I hear that, and it should be an option both from a hammer and stick approach, but there should still be a base and protection from capricious actions... maybe the union go a bit overboard, but the good ones deal with such employees well, some unions like ceos and execs are not so responsive, both are suppose to be.

And that is on the negotiating table from what I understand, but not unless the Companies make certain guarantees as does the government. What good does it do for the Union's to give up their stake, then have the companies turn around and declare bankruptcy a month later after the bailout money ??? is said to dry up? Then they have less of a legal claim when stuff goes to liquidation.... if nothing else, this is not a smart business negotiating stance and the Unions would be accused of pure negligence if they did.

Union rules protect workers and defacto non-union workers usually benefit by receiving better benefits and higher pay.

Agreed and those that are good don't get their companies in situations like the big three... So any bailout must require that these idiot managers go.

Once again you misunderstand the situation, if it were just Unions that were the problem, I might agree, but focusing on them is a non-sequitor and allows you ignore the give-away to these incompetent CEOs who could bail out their companies by giving up a large portion of the compensation... So who really wants the company to fail and not make sacrifices... the Union is at least at the table willing to bargain... And if you were Unionized, you would have the bargaining power to stop work and force your company to cut you a better deal, maybe giving up a little of those CEO benefits to their workers and negotiating better with these health care cos who do nothing but fleece the average worker and the companies.

But they get bonuses regardless, it is built into their compensations packages.... Yes they make money for their firms, but they don't produce anything.... Once again they are middle men and as in Jesus' day.... money changers, whom even he criticized as leaches.

Especially when the execs and ceo aren't giving up anything, which if they did would solve the problem.

Why do these incompetent CEO and executive deserve to earn 27 mil per year plus excessive bonuses, especially when the Company is losing money? Please answer my question? What value do they add???

I'm not, the problem your fact is that you don't include all the dollars the Japanese cos get subsidized by their government, money these cos don't have to come up with... if we had a system like Japan, then the Union wouldn't have to protect its retirees health benefits and those benefits wouldn't be as costly, but Bush gave away Medicare bargaining rights and the Drug Cos and Hospitals are fleecing the taxpayers even after the $400 Billion taxpayers threw in that pot... and now we are quibbling over 15-35 B in loans.... please. Where did the $750 in tarp go??? Not back into the system... banks are sitting on it... so much more that helping the economy, speaking of free loading manipulators.... stock traders and money managers don't create anything near what they take out of the system.... Yes, they get what the market will bear, but what we value in this country is screwed up.

They did when Clinton was in office, they got Bush in office and he started Iraq just for them...

I agree there are problems, but it is largely of managements decision making and not because of Union lack of willingness to negotiate, but when management refuses to make the sacrifices that the they are asking the unions to make, when they largely didn't react to a changing car market despite even congress critters telling them to do so, I don't buy this bankruptcy ploy. On top of which, compare salaries of these clowns to Toyota and Honda leadership, I would love to see that figure and finally Japan subsidizes and puts up way more barriers to our imports than we do to theirs. We gave away the kitchen sink in so called free trade pacts we signed over the last 30 years without comparable reciprocation... The car makers are at a disadvantage, but yet they are able to produce competitive cars for the Euro market, go over their sometime and what all the Ford, GM and Chrysler 4 bangers and turbo diesels zipping around. So, the problem is more foresight on managements part and ability to switch gears as the market begins to change, not afterwards. My question is if the US bought out the retirees health and pension system, why would the auto makers still have problems? They say they would despite proposals by both McCain and Obama to do just that.... Management is the problem once again, not the Unions, but it is typical for knuckle draggers such as Shelby trot out the lame horse.

That isn't the whole story. Toyota paid its workers and average $8,000 bonuses in 2008, also the got $500 mil in subsidies from taxpayers for relocating here, not to mention all the subsidies they received from Japan. If you want to compare the two, then fine, be fully accurate... The actual cost of labor is much different.... Furthermore the Republicans and Shelby were trying to get the UAW to agree to $28 per hour overall, $20 less than you just underestimated for Toyota. That being said the retirees are a problem for Detroit, but the UAW shouldn't give away the kitchen sink and if the retirees lose their health benefits, guess who is going to pay for them anyway... you and me through Medicare and Medicaid.... be careful what you wish for. A solution has to be worked out, but it needs to be an honest brokering, not Union bashing. Hell if management would give back their bonuses for the last three years and halve their pay, they could make up the short term difference and prevent bankruptcy, but I don't see that happening.

The Union was at the table, Shelby et al, torpedoed the deal because they don't want one. They want to union bash and break and give subsidies away to their foreign competitors located in their states. Follow the money and you will see Sheby's so called principled stand is not so principled, but just a convenient foil to protect his own.

Another lie