JDG

Although, just imagine what *our* reaction would have been if on 3rd and 2 in a "keep the clock running situation" and our RB's averaging a whopping 7 yards per carry for the game and our coaches had called for a pass! I want to say that too, but I'm feeling a little burnt by the surge of confidence that I had in Rob Johnson after the way he played in the Tennessee playoff game.... JDG

I have posted elsewhere that that was a great throw. I'm just pointing out that not every defense would bite on the double-move on the first throw, to say nothing of blowing coverage on a fly pattern on the second throw. JDG

No argument about the throw to Price, but I don't agree that basically any defense would let a WR get completely behind the defense, and just depend on the QB not being able to make the throw in order to stop the sure touchdown. Let's be real here.... JDG

Of course, isn't Garrard really a JV player?

Before we get all excited, the Texans had a ton of defensive line injuries, as well as having Mario Williams playing very hurt....

Congratulations to J.P. Losman on a good game. I'll be honest and say that for most of this game, I truly believed that we would lose, and my reaction was going to point out that all JP Losman can do is occaisonally hope to hit a bomb - otherwise he can't sustain drives, and commits the occasional devastating turnover. But at the end of the game, he did something that I had not yet see him do - take the ball and lead the team down the field for a game-winning TD. In addition to doing it in the two-minute drill with no timeouts, it was also the first sustained TD drive in I don't know how long . To finally get that kind of drive in a game-winning two minute drill situation is a big confidence booster, and just a great feeling. I have to say, that it was really nice to really root for the team and have them win. Great job by J.P. and staying in under pressure to hit the bomb to Lee Evans, as well. Sure it was blown coverage, but it was a great throw - and the kind of throw JP has missed recently. Keeping things in perspective, though, the Texans were missing a ton of players on the defensive line, which really made our O-Line look better. They are also still the Texans. Hopefully we'll see more improvement in the coming weeks, and more sustained offensive performance. JDG

Except for the fact, that there ain't anyone around here saying that......

Once again, its "Anyone but Losman....." But yeah, its Willis McGahee and Lee Evans that are the problems... Yup, that's the ticket! JDG

And from this, I have no doubt that a large proportion of TSW posters will still be absolutely convinced that the Bills would be much better off spending this year's first round draft pick on a Guard than on a Quarterback.... JDG

You mean like we had him do in the Chicago game, and the Detroit game, and to a lesser degree, in the New England game? That turned out real well, eh? One of the reasons why JP Losman has limited attempts is because he doesn't sustain drives.... when you are consistently having short drives, you have fewer offensive plays, with fewer opportunities to throw..... JDG

And Rivers kind of puts paid to the religion around here that a QB can only develop while being force-fed starts. Two years on the bench doesn't seem to have hurt Rivers any, eh?

Except for the fact that both those players are backups who are starting because of injuries.....

Does that mean that we have the Todd Blackledge of the draft, then?

This is a red herring, as I don't think the McGahee pick was part of this discussion so afr. I think that I've presented some preliminary evidence that some very successful teams don't necessarily pump a lot of high draft picks into the Offensinve Line. Meanwhile, I absolutely do agree that you should spend high draft picks on the most important position, the QB position. The problem isn't spending those picks on that position, its on the quality of the product we got for our expenditures (two straight busts, soon to be three by all indications...) JDG

Well, one of the most successful NFL teams since 2000 (Eagles) famously spent a 1st round and *two* 2nd round picks in the same draft 2002 - despite already having some highly rater secondary players at the time. In fact, since 2000 (six drafts), the Eagles have spent all of two first day picks on the offensive line - and one of those has yet to dress for an NFL game. In fact, another very successful NFL team since 2000 (Colts) have spent exactly *one* first day draft pick on an offensive lineman since drafting Peyton Manning in 1998 - some game named Brandon Burlsworth. JDG

And do you think that the playcalling might have something to do with the coaching staff's assessment of Losman's abilities, or lack thereof? JDG

Add this to the same file as Belichick in the Minnesota game, with the situation well in hand, coming out in a 5 WR set to throw the ball around some more late in the game.... JDG

This is revisionist history. There were not a lot of high first-round OLine prospects in this year's draft. Whom would you have had the Bills take, Winston Justice? Has he even dressed for an NFL game this year? High draft picks are not a panacea - just look at what Robert Gallery is doing in Oakland (he's been doing pretty bad by all accounts.) We also shouldn't forget that our defense was atrocious last year, and could neither stop the pass nor the run. JDG

I strongly suspect that JP Losman's performance this season while in FG range may well answer that question. JDG

But how do you explain the gameplan for the Green Bay game, then? Or the Miami game? JDG

Anyone but Losman, as usual.... I suppose that holding Peyton Manning to 17 points had nothing to do with coaching, eh? JDG

I agree that today's gameplan was very rightly for us to run a lot more than we passed. I think there's no question that today's gameplan did not call for JP Losman to put up 300 yards. I also think, however, that today's gameplan, if JP Losman were even a below average NFL QB, would have called for JP Losman to pass for a bit more than 83 yards... to maybe get at least 130 or 150 yards. To maybe score a bit more than 6 points. I think its clear that JP Losman cannot be trusted to get the ball off in time in any kind of passing situation. I think that's why the coaches went with a draw play in almost every third and long situation. And of course, there is also the scoring offense. How many FG's have we kicked this year where we were sacked on the play before? How many FG drives of negative yardage have we had this year? JP Losman simply does not make plays that result in first downs, let alone scores. We simply cannot sustain offense with him. Kudos to the defense and special teams for keeping us very much in a very tough road game. Its really a shame that despite that heoic efforts by the defense and special teams, I never once believed today that our QB would be good enough for us to win this game today. This was never supposed to be a 300 yard day for JP Losman. But even with the right game plan from our coaches, including a great effort from the defense and special teams, our QB was simply not good effort to execute even that limited gameplan for a win. JDG

Oh yeah, and everyone here is convinced that the Coaches still love Losman and have full confidence in him.... Maybe its just me, but don't all the 3rd and long draw plays in fact speak volumes about their confidence in Losman? It seems to me that they think that the draw play is at least a lot better than a sack. The "grandpa" comment is a ridiculous ad hominem. People accuse me of "hating" JP Losman, but I don't toss out ad hominems like that.... BTW - the last time that the Bills drafted a CB in the 1st round, or even so much as the 2nd round, was Nate Clements in 2001. That's because he just went into Indianapolis and lost by one point, right??? Good grief!!!! Sure, he has a cannon for an arm - and all the accuracy of a cannon on a deep ball as well.... And you also forgot the following observations: 11 plays in the red zone, -8 yards of total offense. JP Losman, 18 NFL games, 6 of which with less than 105 meaningful passing yards. (33% of the time) We are now officially in contention with the Raiders for the most incompetent offense in the NFL.... JDG

I don't think that Losman's numbers, if we're going to continue to debate just "numbers", are so solidly in the "average bracket" as you describe. Some of them are "below average" for a 32 team NFL, especially with several teams not having had their starting QB play for the bulk of the season, and I don't know that any of them are "above average". For example, Yards per Game is at the bottom of the League - which is a measure of our ability to sustain offense. JP is also near the bottom in sacks per game, and is dead last (at least among the regular starters I looked at) in sack yards per game. How many times have we seen JP Losman hold onto the ball too long and give up an 11 yard sack? How many field goal scoring drives of negative yards have we seen? Again, if you just want to debate numbers, I prefer to look at the portfolio of game. I think that problem is that when JP Losman puts together a bad game, he puts together a game where he literally accomplishes almost nothing. Only Chad Pennington and Alex Smith seemed to have similar numerically bad games from the examples you provided. Additionally, JP Losman has not, as of yet, put together a great game - a game where he showed that if needbe he could keep us alive on the strength of his arm. And finally, whatever one concludes about the numbers, I think that sometimes you just need to watch our offense in action. Time and time again, we just can't get anything going, and our passing game consists of avoiding mid-range passes, and either running WR screens, swing passes, and quick slants; dumping it off to the fullback (how many times did we see that on Sunday?); and then occasionally chucking it deep and hoping that Losman can hit somebody. I'm sorry, but that is just not an "average" passing offense that we are watching.... kudos to Dick Jauron though for managing things to get a few of the passing numbers look respectable. JDG

quote] What I was pointing out to you though was the QBR is a combination of all his numbers(except sacks). He is 18th in QBR.....20th in YPA.....14th in completion percentage. Yes, QB Rating is a combination of a variety of numbers. Yet, it is a completely arbitrary combination of these numbers, and I'm not at all convinced that it is a particularly good one. Among other criticisms, the QB Rating rewards passing touchdowns, but if you pass the ball to the one and then run it in, you get no credit. If we're going to get into a round-about of whether or not JP Losman's numbers this year are "abysmal", I'd just as soon drop the subject, as something that I just said a little too heatedly in the context of a long discussion. I do think that Losman's numbers from Sunday are particularly abysmal considering the opponent (one of the very worst passing defenses in the League) and the situation (coming off a bye after several bad performances, and playing at home.) This is where I completely disagree - and it is a classic tactic of Losman's defenders, to simply define a single category of "bad", and not look deeper at the situation. Its three games of *meaningful* yards under 105. JP Losman managed to get to 115 against to Chicago only thanks to 26 yards on a completely garbage-time drive against the backups at the end of the 4th quarter. Even with the standard of 115 yards, those numbers are *still* below those of many of the examples you provided. I don't think that you can sum up a QB in any one number. I think you need to look at a portfolio. Sure, YPA is better than YPG in some respects - on the other hand, YPG also takes into account failure to complete passes on 3rd downs, and thus generate additional passing attempts by sustaining drives. QB rating, as I mentioned above, is a completely arbitrary combination of several factors. Again, I prefer to look at a portfolio of performance in judging a QB, and not just try and turn a player into a single number.... In my mind, Vick is a complete asterisk.... if you look at the offense Atlanta is running, Vick is playing a position that is essentially unique within the NFL. If Losman is going to run for 70 yards a game, I'll hold him to a different standard too. Additionally, if we are just going to talk numbers, I think that you have adequately demonstrated that 130 or 150 yards for a QB in a game is eminently reasonable. Less than 100 yards is not reasonable. In 17 career starts, Losman has been under 115 yards passing on six occasions. That is at a level worse than any of the QB's that you mentioned. Just on a numbers basis, the only real cases you have here, in my mind, are Alex Smith and Pennington. And with Pennington, I think that the whole NFL is seeing the difference between a really good coach like Herman Edwards, and a not so good coach. Until this year, Pennington had been one of the most accurate and effective QB's in the League, and the new regime there in New York is trying to get him to play a throw-it-around style of offense for which he is unsuited. I'm sure that not having Curtis Martin hurts a little bit too, but I'm also suspicious of what that coaching staff is doing.... And in any event, Chad Pennington has *done* it in the NFL (cf. 41-0 vs. Peyton Manning in the playoffs.) A large part of passing yards is admittedly determined by how you want to play. There's definitely cases where say you have a good defense and running game, or when your opponent is offensive incompetent (i.e. the Oakland Raiders), where teams will take the attitude that so long as they don't throw interceptions, they don't think they can lose, and so play very conservatively. I don't think that we have that here in Buffalo. The one exception is that we did come out to play that way in Miami - but since then, for whatever reason, the coaches have gotten away from that. Since then, they have taken the handcuffs off the offense, gotten away from the WR swing passes and screens, and JP Losman has not been up to the challenge. Plain and simple, it doesn't take numbers to see that JP Losman was abysmal against Green Bay last week. We simply were not able to generate anything in the way of offense, and were it not for a Brett Favre implosion on offense to the tune of four turnovers, and a ridiculous defensive breakdown in a 2nd and 20 situation, the Bills in all likelihood would have lost that game. JP Losman wasn't capable of winning that game against a competent team on Sunday, even if he at least didn't blow it. But when you combine JP Losman's performance against Green Bay with his non-existant showing against Chicago, his ineffectual showings against New England and the NY Jets at home, and I think you get plenty of reason to be concerned..... and plenty of reason to think that if Losman doesn't get better than this by the end of the season, that we made to take a long hard look at our options after the season. JDG