SectionC3

Depends what the charge in Mass is. The equivalent charge in NYS is probably murder second, which is found in Penal Law 125.25. Subdivision 1 of that section (there are several parts) states that "A person is guilty of murder in the second degree when . . . [w]ith intent to cause the death of another person, he causes the death of such person or of a third person . . . ." Ergo, no intent to cause death = no murder conviction. In this state the "beat down gone bad" theory could still result in a conviction on a lesser charge, such as manslaughter in the first degree. Someone is guilty of that crime when "with intent to cause serious physical injury to another person, he causes the death of such person or of a third person." Serious physical injury has its own definition, which I won't get into here, but the obvious difference between murder and manslaughter in this context is the difference in intent. Assuming that Mass has similar penal laws of this state, and assuming that those similar laws are in play in the Hernandez trial, if the jury believes that Hernandez did not have or share the intent to kill the vic, there can be no murder conviction. So again, this is why the PCP defense is genius.

Agreed. But what if he wanted his two banger pals to merely throw a beating into the vic and one of them took it a step further than was anticipated, brought the gun into the mix, and put half a dozen bullets into the vic while Hernandez had his back turned? I know it sounds unlikely, but it is possible. That's why the PCP defense was outstanding, and it's why at least the murder charge isn't a sure thing for the People.

I couldn't resist the urge to join this threat because I do this type of legal work for a living and it's interesting to me to see people take an interest in something like this. I haven't followed the trial very closely, but I'm familiar with the basics. There is a mountain of circumstantial evidence that, among other things, strongly suggests that Hernandez was at the scene of the murder. I assume Hernandez was charged with what in New York State would be intentional murder (murder in the second degree) on the basis of accessorial conduct. In other words, the People probably alleged that Hernandez either pulled the trigger or had the same intent (to have the vic shot and killed) as the person who pulled the trigger. So the defense, without exaggeration, was brilliant. In a nutshell, the defense beat up on the prosecution witnesses during the prosecution's case and highlighted the obvious flaws in the People's case - no murder weapon, no triggerman, no motive (not that a motive is needed). Then, and this is where the brilliance comes in, the defense acknowledged Hernandez's presence at the murder scene but explained how the murder could have occurred without his involvement through the PCP point - one of the other two guys present snapped b/c of the PCP use and unexpectedly shot the vic. At the end of the day, the case probably comes down to whether the jury thinks the security cam in the house shows a gun in Hernandez's hand, and how the jury views Hernandez's destruction of the surveillance system and his phone (assuming, safely I think, that both of the latter points are in evidence). Ultimately I suspect those will be the things that do him in, and I think we'll get a guilty verdict by the middle of next week. Had the jury been sequestered, I suspect this would have been done by Friday afternoon. I will also say this: many times the questions the jury asks during deliberations provide insight as to what's going on in the jury room. Here the jury asked for an exhibit list at the outset of deliberations, which makes me think that it's a deliberative group that will do its job carefully. It may also mean that there are some sticklers in the room who may have a problem convicting someone of a murder charge based only on circumstantial evidence and who therefore want to review all of the evidence before voting the case. What really caught my eye, though, was the request for a supplemental instruction on the gun charge. It's tough to evaluate the request without knowing the wording of the charges against Hernandez, but it made me wonder whether the jury might buy the PCP defense on the murder charge and was thinking of moving on to the gun charge. (The murder count is the most serious charge against Hernandez and, based on the chronology of the court's instructions, the jury would likely consider that charge first.) Although I don't like to read tea leaves, it wouldn't shock me if Hernandez gets a hung jury or even a not guilty verdict on the murder charge. The possibility is a very small one, but it's there. And it's more than I would have thought to have existed at the outset of the trial.

Welcome back Bill. Agree with the thoughts on Marrone and Spiller. One (Spiller) is a good guy who I hope finds good things at his next stop, and the other, as was said here during the year, is a guy who acts like a bully and coaches like a wimp. Before one acts like Parcells one must win like Parcells, and I don't see that for Doug in the future. I'm glad he's gone. Another Doug point. Local media was once part of my life, and it is VERY interesting to me to hear the media either dumping on Doug or standing idly by as others do him dirty. This suggests to me that he was the punk that the recent reports have cast him to be. On the fred issue, I totally agree. He's a warrior, and he maybe has another year as a third down back, but he's done as even a tandem back. On Sammy, I disagree with BADOLBEELZ to the extent that he wouldn't make the trade. I wouldn't deal Sammy for Justin Gilbert and whomever goes at 19 this year (think a Shazier-type of guy) if given the chance. But, the idea of taking a QB high every year is a brilliant one and spot on. By the way, you guys are tow of my favorite posters here. Love the knowledge and the discourse.

No way Marrone gets an NFL offer this week. Not a chance. Pegula just elevated the value of every franchise in the league with his huge bid for the Bills, and his new partners just aren't going to poach his coach a few months after the purchase. Not a chance.

Erik Pears Kraig Urbik Keith Rivers Honorable mention: Chris Gragg

We should change the title of this thread to leaving Henderson out to dry is Hackett. I read "Hackett is leaving" and I got excited becaus I thought i could refer to Nate Hackett as our former offensive coordinator. Then I read the rest of the title and was disappointed. Again.

I agree on the inability of the staff to get sammy the ball. I also think sammy isn't quite right yet. I don't know how things looked on TV, but watching him walk around between plays led me to believe he's still a little bit ginger. Not that this is our problem, but the Browns have a tough decision on hoyer. The guy is a gamer but, at least from what i saw today, he's not a guy who is going to drive the ball down field. His first half was vaguely reminiscent of Andy dalton's game here last year.m dalton threw for 300 yards and was highly efficient on mostly safe stuff that stretched the field aside to side. I think he threw downfield nor more than a few times, and hiyer has some similar qualities.

Knock on wood things are OK in Orchard Park so far. The snowpack here is down by probably half and, surprisingly, I don't have any water in the basement. If we have temperatures as warm as forecast for this week I don't see how the stadium isn't ready for the Cleveland game.

I think the Dolphins game with the wall of snow might have been in the early 2000s. I want to say Bledsoe was the quarterback. I distinctly recall the skies opening at one of those games and some cheesy song about snow playing over the PA. I'm pretty sure Ray Lucas played for the Dolphins in that game. Totally agree that the Giants in '07 was the worst weather game ever here. I'd nominate the game against the Phoenix Cardinals in 1990 as another all-around crappy day. The home game against the Jets to clinch home field (I think 1991) should be on the list, too, because of the brutal cold and the snow and ice pervasive in the stadium. The wind impacted the goalposts in a season finale against New England. I'll add to the list of "best" weather games: the 1990 Miami playoff game was a blast, and I think there was enough snow at the first AFC championship game for it to make the list.

Open and able to handle the traffic are two different things. As of last night the roads were clear, but they were mostly covered in thick ice and they just can't handle a lot of traffic right now. I've lived in the Southtowns for 35 years, and I have never seen anything like this. Having been to nearly every game since 1990, I can also add this. I have no idea whatsoever what the Bills and the County are going to do about the snow in the parking lot. There is just no place to put it. And even if they pile it up, it reduces available spaces. With satellite lots largely closed for next week, I don't see how the Bills can park a normal volume of cars here. I'm as big a Bills supporter as there is, a longtime STH (my own as an adult, and with my dad as a kid), and the biggest Buffalo supporter you will find. In spite of all that, they simply cannot play on Sunday, and barring the intervention of a National Guard-like supply of snow moving equipment, I really struggle to see how the game could be played here on Monday. I'm not at all suggesting moving the Cleveland game, but I'm supplementing my point with respect to the Jets game by musing that even with melting parking is going to be limited and a mess for the Cleveland game.

I'm about two miles east of the stadium. It's coming down in buckets again. Prepare for the game to be played on Monday, and probably not here. This is an obscene amount of snow, and while I suspect the stadium could be cleared for game time, I have no idea how they'll handle the parking lots and make it so a large volume of spectators can attend. I just don't see how the equipment would be available to make it possible with everything else that is going on here.

I doubt the snow alone supports a dome. It would be one more roof that is in big trouble in the Southtowns now. Think of the Metrodome. Besides, clearing the stadium isn't really the issue. I bet that could be done by Monday night. It's more a matter of having a place to put all of the snow, and clearing the lots, and opening the roads, and freeing responders to work the game. For what it's worth, I live about two miles due east of the stadium, and we are getting pounded with snow as of 1:20p. We had "only" about a foot overnight, but I wouldn't be surprised if we've picked up another foot in the last couple of hours. This snow is different from that which fell yesterday in that it's lighter and easier to shovel, but I have my doubts as to hosting a game here on Sunday. My uneducated guess is that the governor and the county executive have put their two cents in about the difficulty of hosting a game on Sunday, and the league is waiting for the Pegulas to arrive to see the carnage first hand before moving the game. I suspect a Monday night date at the Ralph isn't in the cards, and that we will watch the Bills host the Jets either in Toronto or in Detroit on Monday. Cleveland would be cool because of its proximity, but I'm not sure if the Browns are home on Sunday.

Just throwing this out there, but with the next storm in they way I think moving the game to Monday is something they should consider. Helps with the practice issue, and the stadium (and lots) can't be cleared.

How about we settle on wiser? . Stay warm!

Just a toip to everyone who has furnace cents close to the ground. Keep them clear. Normally this isn't an issue bc normally we don't have this much snow. Pete, I've been to almost every home game since 1990, and games with heavy snow are a blast. Inclement weather such as extreme wind or rain is usually fun, too, with the exception of the Giants in 2007. That was horrible. Hammered, better a rookie than an old man 😀. Seriously, though, I don't know if there was thundersnow in 1977, but I heard a little bit last night. Only other times I heard it were in the October storm and in the early December storm in 2010. Thundersnow = bad things. I thought the December 2010 storm was pretty nutty - my wife got caught by Clinton St on the thruway and I parked under the overpass to do the rescue for that one - but the amount of snow in one day here is stunning. Almost as much as the week's worth of snow around Christmas 2001.

I live pretty close to the stadium and its been going nonstop all day. We had one inch at halftime of MNF game, and there is probably four feet on the ground now. It's incredible. The stadium should be ok, but parking is probably going to be limited. There is just no place to put this stuff. I've lived in the south towns for 35 years and I've never seen anything like this.

I want nutty. I've had enough after 15 years of this. Harbaugh may be a lunatic, but he's a winner. My hang up with him isn't the kelly thing, it's schwartz. I'd be reluctant to mess with the d. Personally I think we need someone to rock the boat. We've been on autopilot with an absent boss for too long. Time to change the atmosphere there.

Marrone acts like a bully but coaches like a wimp. What makes the last two games so frustrating is that we had a chance to take a huge step toward breaking the playoff drought, and instead of going down "swinging" we went with our tails between our legs. I'm a pretty conservative guy by nature, but if I'm the pegulas Marrone is out of here barring a miracle finish.

It's probably both physical and mental. Like bandit said, Pears needs to rewire himself to the guard position. On top of that, he's very tall for a guard, and not the fleetest of foot. With respect to Richardson, I can't speak to whether he's out of shape. That may be a problem for him, but the mental side of things appears to be killing that guy in pass protection. I spent a lot of time watching him at the stadium on Sunday, and he botched tons of exchanges on stunts. They HAD to sit him down this week. A play in the fourth quarter where Orton actually didn't get sacked is a good illustration of the Richardson problem. Orton had been sacked on the stunt shortly before this play, and the Vikings ran the combo again. I was looking right at it, and Orton must have been thinking the same thing I was: Richardson is not going to pick this up. Surprisingly, Richardson nailed the exchange, but by that time Orton had moved to his left and actually stepped into pressure. At that point Orton had no choice but to throw the ball away, and on that play the ball hit the down marker as it traveled out of bounds.

Richardson is brutal. Can't handle the stunt, and it's a major, major issue. Also, did anyone catch the Marrone brain cramp at the end of the first half? I can't believe it we didn't call timeout before the Vikings lined up for a long field goal. We allowed probably 20 seconds to burn off the clock, and had the Vikings missed the field goal we would have wasted an opportunity to steal three points at the end of the first half. It may seem like a small thing, but the margin of victory is obviously very fine and something like that could easily have hurt us today.

why would you want to play those records? Better yet, why have them in the first place? I wouldn't want to "risk() it all" by listening to that crap.

The way Henery was swinging his arms back and forth as he lined up for the kick, it had no chance to go in. None at all.

Plain and simple it's time for orton. The offense looks inept. Enough is enough.

Whatever may or may not have happened with whatever group Kelly may or may not have assembled, the prevailing point here is that Kelly stayed true and loyal to Buffalo. Stand up move.