Hollywood Donahoe

Why is that, now? Explain yourself. And while you're at at it, further explain this comment, please (in response to ATBNG's discovery that Brady's averge completion traveled further than "long ball" Culpepper's): "Absolutely, which is the case in almost every dink and dunk short passing offense- the long ball teams topping the RAC category have lower average pass in the air stats while the little dink and dunk offenses like NE have a lower RAC and higher average pass in the air. The stats are almost perfectly consistent in this grouping."

I was referring to your agreement with the author of the Fox Sports article that a "deep pass" is one which travels great distances through the air.

Why regular season? Here is the problem with your "6 deep passes per game" qualification. The game after which published sports journalist Zimmerman bestowed upon Brady the title of "one of the best and most consistent deep ball passers in the NFL" was the '04-'05 AFCC game against Pittsburgh. Brady threw two long balls in that game, each thrown PERFECTLY, each leading to TDs. Maybe you need a course in the virtues of quality over quantity.

First off, that's a ridiculous qualification. Go find a game where Culpepper threw 6 balls over 45 yards (and equally ridiculous qualification). That's a lot. Secondly, I've no need to do that, since I've already proven that Brady ranked 4th in the NFL last season in deep pass percentage. MY point has been proven, YOURS has not. You go find some data that proves Brady throws as few deep passes as you claim.

How about acknowledging MY challenge - provide a single outside source to back up your position.

Unfortunately, this no longer about Brady's long ball ability - it's been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'm right. No, this about AKC's complete inability to admit that he is wrong. I've debates with him in the past, and he has never admitted he was wrong, even though he was wrong each time. It's the principal of the matter. People living in a civilized society based on logic and reason simply shouldn't behave as he does, and I'm going to try and do the world (or, at least, everyone who's forced to interact wit hAKC) a service by attempting to break him of his problem behaviors. If I present with the absurdity of his own behavior enough times, I feel he may realize why it is wrong.

Now I know you're merely trying to antagonize me. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And intentionally misquoting some = trolling, as far as I'm concerned. Salvage whatever credibility you still have around here and stop posting in this thread. You only embarrass yourself further with each illogical rambling.

Indeed I do. And so far in this thread I've backed up my position by posting: - A quote from a published sports journalist stating that Brady is one of the best and most consistent deep passers in the NFL. - A collection of stats showing that in 2004, Brady threw more passes in the 31-40 yard range and 41+ yard range than Peyton Manning, who is widely regarded as a frequent and consistent deep passer. - An article written by a published sports journalist stating that in 2004, Brady ranked 4th in the NFL in deep pass percentage. - A collection of stats (provided by ATBNG) showing that of the top 13 passing offense in the NFL in 2004, the Pats (led by Brady) collected the second highest percentage of their passing yards through the air, and not through YAC. While you have backed up your position by: - Stating ad nauseam that you are right, and that I am wrong. If you want me to take your position seriously, provide something to back it up besides saying "it's so."

Your personal attacks are usual coupled with a comment slightly related to the debate at hand. Since this post abandons the debate completely, I'll take take that as an admission that you have as well. Your concession is accepted.

Up from 5 or 6, I see. Seems your qualifications for "deep passer" are rising. Fourth highest percentage of deep passes in the league, with "deep passes" being defined by you as passes that travel extended distances in the air. It's right there for whenever you want to acknowledge it.

So we're in agreement, then. Glad that's settled. You, me, and Dr. Z (among others) all consider Brady one of the best deep passers around. I knew you'd come around.

How so? I'll list two terms: - Deep passes - Vertical passes How would you define those terms? I should tell that I already know how you define "deep" passes, since you used the term earlier in this thread to describe balls that are launched by the QB at one point on the field and caught by a receiver at a point much further down the field. Having said that, I want to pose the question to you formally. How would you define them?

He said it bring a tear to your eye, not his.

Where did I do that, now? The stats I supplied most certainly did support my position. I was arguing that Brady throws as many or more deep passes than the average QB, and the article I posted stated that Brady ranked 4th in the NFL in deep pass percentage. How can you contend that that doesn't support my argument? The subject of our debate is Brady's deep pass percentage and one of the subjects of the article I posted is Brady's deep pass percentage. They are one and the same. Why can't you grasp this? And as for your now-deleted comment on the accuracy of ATBNG's stats, here's where he likely got the total team YAC numbers. That should settle it for you. You were wrong about Brady, you were wrong about the article I posted...you were wrong about EVERYTHING. Now, seriously, stop trolling.

It's still shocking to me that you can't understand the nature of the data provided by the article in question, when it is obvious to me and all others who have read it. That said, you're in luck - ATBNG has supplied me with the statistics that I was too lazy/incompetent to find. Many thanks go out to him for his help in making you look foolish: There are your precious stats. They back up everything I've said in this thread, and everything that was stated in the article I provided. Now shut up and stop trolling.

Yeah, I still remember that episode. Awesome stuff, felt like a real dream.

Not bad at all. Same thing happens to me. It's as if he exists in a vacuum in which logic can't survive.

And they are. But I guess ignorance is bliss, right? Your anti-Brady paradise won't be disturbed if you simply close your eyes and ears to the facts.

"DEEP BALLS" ARE BALL THAT TRAVEL A LONG DISTANCE "IN THE AIR." YOU YOURSELF USED THE TERM IN THIS MANNER. How you cannot understand this is beyond me. It simply does not. The article references "deep balls" and "vertical passes," which very obviously refer to passes that travel a great distance "in the air," and not short passes with RAC added on. You were made to look foolish by your false claim that Brady rarely throws vertical passes, an you're trying to save face. It's understandable, but a twisted semantical game akin to debating the definition of "is" is not the way to go about it. Admit you were wrong, and gain back a little respect from the rest of the board.

I do feel kind of creepy having to type that so many times.

The use of the phrase "deep balls" - which you yourself have used multiple times in this thread to describe a pass that travels many yards through the air - is not enough for you? I am not responsible for your lack of reading comprehension ability. I posted the facts, and I cannot help you if you are unable to understand them.

A good point. Regardless of silly ESPN polls, I think that any fan should speak proudly of a defense that was top 10 in both statistical categories. I stopped looking to ESPN for approval of my team a long time ago, because their content is seldom based on accomplishment.

That was in yardage. Many people consider point totals to be more indicative of a defense's quality. For what it's worth, the Bills were indeed solid in scoring defense as well, placing 8th behind Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, New England, New York Jets, Washington, Baltimore, and Jacksonville.

Keep in mind, this isn't a one-time thing. He once argued fervently that Drew Bledsoe is among the most productive QBs in NFL history, based solely on his career passing yards.