Joe Ferguson forever

Fascinating interview. Illustrates his formation in his own words. He sounded more like a D than an R here: https://www.npr.org/2016/08/17/490328484/hillbilly-elegy-recalls-a-childhood-where-poverty-was-the-family-tradition

This reminds me of the time a fellow parishioner asked if I had a gun and a bible. When I said yes, he told me I couldn't possibly be a liberal.

"I can't stomach Trump," Vance said in an interview with NPR at the time. "I think that he's noxious and is leading the White working class to a very dark place." After the "Access Hollywood" tape emerged of Trump bragging about being able to grope women, Vance wrote in a since-deleted social media post: "Fellow Christians, everyone is watching us. When we apologize for this man, lord help us."

she went to cal. he went to yale. nice to see you can forgive elites in your own party.

Yup. Hillbillies and rednecks were already sewn up. He also had the ***** hunter clubs votes. I'll bet he owns a beagle.

It’s almost always complicated.

Alternatively...."The jaded underworld was riding high"

The only other Billy Bragg song I know. Don't know why but I just like it, a lot. Not much to it tho

I'm quite familiar with Appalachia. Vance's Hillbilly Elegy was pretty accurate especially re generational poverty and self destruction. So I don't get why he's become so trumpy. His people are not going to benefit and he knows it. He's no dummy to pull himself out of his situation. Perhaps it embittered him.

Not lookin good for my team...but not hopeless. Shite, I'm a Bills fan.

Of course you're not going to...from my cited article (and I can produce many more scholars who agree) Some (note “some’) Jewish leaders (Sadducees and Pharisees) owed their positions to their patron/client relation to the Roman authorities. The emperor appointed the procurator of Judea who appointed the High Priest. Other Jewish parties, including teachers and prophets in rural Galilee and the Dead Sea Scrolls community of Qumran, either rejected or rebelled against the Jerusalem leaders’ tainted relationship with Rome. Julius Caesar had earlier exempted Jews from offering imperial worship by having them pay a special tax to Rome. Temple authorities, via tax farmers, collected this tax for Rome along with the Temple tax. Poor farmers in Galilee wound up having to mortgage their ancestral lands to the powers that be in Jerusalem. The wealthy in Jerusalem should have returned this land to the original tribes by the periodic law of Jubilee, but failed to do so. Like the prophets of old, Jesus preached kingdom of God. “Render unto Caesar” means, give back to Caesar his own coin with his image on it (according to Leviticus 19: 4, a blasphemy to the pious Jew!) and to God what is God’s, namely, the land itself which God ultimately owns and which God gave directly to Israel in the covenant (Joshua 24:13)! Jesus’ message was both spiritually and politically threatening first to the Roman authorities and secondarily to their client appointees in Jerusalem. You admit there is room for disagreement on this issue correct? Pope Benedict fairly recently made it clear that the church no longer feels the Jews were responsible... https://www.npr.org/2011/03/04/134264425/Pope-Jews-Are-Not-Responsible-For-Killing-Jesus

Do you believe the entire bible is to be read literally.? Are you relies or ancient history scholar? Do you believe the gospels must be given context by7 other historians?

And you know this how? The bible is in conflict with itself. The older authors blamed Romans and later writers gradually blamed the Jews. See the scholarly article I linked. As I said earlier, the bible is not an historical document. It can't be if stories of the same event differ so much...

The bible is not historical. There wasn't an ark full of mating pairs of every living thing. The world wasn't created in 6 days. The Jews answered to the occupying Romans not vice versa. As occupiers, the Romans undoubtedly noticed a man holding gatherings of 1000's and espousing strange, unsettling ideas. It would be analogous to the current Israeli occupiers not noticing and observing a very successful Palestinian organizer. Clearly he upset the Jewish establishment then as well. But they didn't call the shots. They gave the Romans an out to rid themselves of a potential revolutionary. https://source.wustl.edu/2004/02/romans-are-to-blame-for-death-of-jesus/

well that's his left ear so....

who is they? it sure isn't me or anyone I know.

No, inherently good...Was man corrupted or were we bad from the beginning? I think the garden of eden is symbolic of the former. I'm a Christian as well, albeit a liberal one. Jesus was killed by the Romans for being a radical rabble rouser. The Jews were (and are) convenient villains.

Define society. As a Christian, do you believe that man is inherently good? That seems a dividing line among our group.

I wasn’t around in the 1860’s. I’d like to think I would have been aligned with the underground railroad in Lewiston had I been. That would have been worth the cost. Are you a socialist? Should a living wage be mandated?

Are things worth what the market is willing to pay or not? Socialist or not?

Sure. They’ll never know. This is where we are sadly. The insane are running the asylum.

You are seemingly a socialist. I’ve never used illegal alien for labor. My contractor who’s remodeled several houses for me is local and independent. We are friends. Had I underpaid him, he wouldn’t still be doing beautiful jobs for me 30 years on. But the free market is just that: a job or a product is worth what the market will pay.

It’s a tough world and as you so aptly illustrated, genetics play a huge role in outcomes. The male/female determinant as well as the white/ nonwhite phenotypes played an outsized role but not as much now. The ability to adapt also helps determine outcomes. Perhaps these times are just part of evolution. Re counseling, sympathy and empathy for these guys, maybe that’s why the so often go to fundamentalist churches. They find people in similar situations who can relate. Birds of a feather…

And there are an equal number of women in the same position. Many do menial jobs and carry on. Women rarely had middle class lifestyles working union jobs with little to no education or skills. They don’t miss those days except if they were in single earner families as stay at home moms. Those days are gone and aren’t coming back even if trump promises it…and guess which tribe is more union friendly.

No. I’m saying reproductive aged women have less freedom and opportunity than men, in general. The idea that women of any color have it easier than white men is ridiculous. Poor persecuted rednecks…. I think the rules are gradually changing especially in 1st world countries women are slowly becoming more equal. Men are losing some of the artificial advantages they’ve enjoyed and they can’t handle it. Women are accustomed to fighting harder for less.