Billz4ever

You could argue that but it's a bad argument because it's completely based on speculation and a hypothetical situation. MVP voters aren't going to decide who wins based off of a "If QB A had what QB B does, he'd be the better guy" argument. It's impossible to prove. If Allen gets a revamped line and better weapons and overtakes Mahomes by his play on the field, then so be it, but he will have then actually proven it on the field. It can't be based simply on what you think might happen. The award is determined by what did happen, not by what you think would happen in an alternate universe.

I agree with that, but that's getting a little off track with what the original debate was. If you want to tell me KC has better coaching and OL than the Bills, you're not going to get any argument from me there. I disagreed with the contention that KC's skill positions are also a lot better than the Bills, which I see as a massive stretch and isn't really supported by the data.

Tell me what QB comparison you can make where both QBs are on a perfectly level playing field. It doesn't happen. What you're trying to do is simply boil it down to an argument that says if QB A had what QB B has, QB A would prove he's better. Easy argument to make because it's impossible to prove since they can't swap teams. Maybe Allen gets a better line and some more weapons and then demonstrates he is better than Mahomes. But that's the whole point...he has to first prove it on the field. You can't just make the claim he would be and it's instantly gospel truth.

Well yeah, that's because you comparing him to other TEs not simply calling him a receiver, which is the point here. Offensive production. If he and Diggs are producing the same numbers on the field, the fact that one is a TE while the other is a WR is making a distinction without a difference. If we were comparing Kelce to Knox, obviously Kelce is better, just as if we compared Diggs to any of the KC WRs. Where they line up is irrelevant. What they contribute to the offense is the point and in that aspect, they are nearly identical.

Totally agree with the use of the slot, but I don't think it's Crowder they missed as much. He only had 3 catches on the season when he went down. I think they missed Beasley more than anything. Say what you want about him and him getting older, but Josh trusted him and was always the guy that could get open and get Josh out of a jam. That aspect of our offense from the slot all but completely disappeared this year.

Everything you said is true. But what each QB has to work with can be debated with any QB to QB comparison in the league. In the end, all we can go by is what they do on the field. If Josh can get a better line and some more weapons, maybe we see him overtake Mahomes, but the point being is he would have to prove it first on the field. The debate can't simply be boiled down to a hypothetical that says if QB A had what QB B does, he'd be the better one. He would still have to prove it on the field first. I hope Beane and Co can get there and get the missing pieces Josh needs. He deserves it after several years of having the defense prioritized over him IMO.

Of course. That really goes without saying. But my point is we have a pretty talented TE that isn't getting used as much as he should. Would it happen more if he was Kelce? Sure.

Well yeah, he'd kinda have to since he wouldn't have Diggs anymore. 😆 We know Davis isn't filling that role.

I'd love to have Kelce, but I'm not giving up Diggs to do it, especially considering how we don't throw to the TE we have enough.

A lot of that comes down to the quality of those players in those big contracts. We have a ton of money tied up just in Tre White and Von. Tre hopefully can play better next year after a full offseason and camp because he didn't look the same. Von went down and will probably miss time going into next season. We've got bad contracts like Ed Oliver who is not worth the $10M he'll make next year. Saffold, while not breaking the bank, wasn't anywhere near the $6M he got.

The more and more I think about the whiffs we've had, to include the DL, it just makes me more and more depressed and makes me think we suck at evaluating talent. I still can't believe we paid Saffold $6M to come here.

It's just so odd and is hard to pin down the cause. It was like...we've got this great way of keeping the chains moving, but we don't want to do it anymore. We want to repeatedly chuck it 40 yards instead.

And if we don't do the same this offseason, we'll get smoked next season too.

I would also add lack of a Bills pass rush that has to do with a combination of injuries and a lack of personnel, but on-point there.

He knows it's not, but is pot-committed at this point. Guess I also should probably not point out that Mahomes did what he did this year minus a guy that caught 119 balls for 1700 yards in Miami this year. Wouldn't want to hurt his argument any further.

You're wrong, provided zero stats to back up your claim. Is Kelce the best TE in football? Yes. Does he produce more for the offense than Diggs? No But you are entitled to oppose

No, we are discussing the talent level KC vs Buffalo in the receiver corps and backs. And you still haven't come close to proving KCs are clearly better than the Bills. Not by a long shot.

LMAO, Kelce played in 1 more game than Diggs did this season and had two more catches and 1 more TD. Diggs had more yards. In 16 games, Juju had 933 yards and 3 TDs. In 15 games, Gabe had 836 yards and 7 TDs in what was considered a bad season. Please tell me you have more than this to demonstrate KCs receivers and backs are much better than the Bills.

While Josh is the one throwing the ball, I have to say Dorsey's playcalling must have something to do with it. I think Daboll was better able to keep Josh grounded and not looking for the homerun ball every time. It seems Dorsey tends to feed Josh's bad habits at times and they have to do better there.

Claiming that KCs receivers and backs are a lot better than the Bills. Simply not true by any objective standard. Kelce and Diggs cancel each other out for the most part and everything else is a wash.

So you admit that's homer behavior. Glad we agree. And I will call it out since it's unreasonable and clearly lacks objectivity. They like Josh Allen. Great, so do I. When you start making BS statements to teardown an opponent that aren't based in reality, that's when I have an issue.

I've read several posts where it's pretty clear the goal was to over-inflate the talent of KC's supporting cast to downplay the talent of Mahomes. If they had just made it about the O-Line and coaching, I could agree with that, but the second they're making it out to seem like the KC WR corps and RBs are somehow head and shoulders better than the Bills, it was pretty clear what the intent was, and I will call that out. My only theory is they literally couldn't find another guard that wanted to go.

If they bring Saffold back this year, I might actually punch one of my walls. His play this season doesn't even qualify for backup status IMO.

The good news is that if Josh gets help on the O-line and another weapon at WR, he'll actually have more to work with than he has in the past. The FO has consistently dumped resources into the defense and tried to do the offense on the cheap and they got away with it, but it was really just a matter of Allen's talent masking the underlying problems. The Bills don't have to make big splashes in FA to make Josh's life a lot easier. Have a good draft that addresses the issues and make a few smaller key FA signings and things look much better right away.

Yep, and if Beane can get Josh some more weapons and some better protection, Josh will have the opportunity to maybe overtake Mahomes. But that's the key...he actually has to do it. You can't simply say if Josh had Mahomes' coach and line he'd be just as good. That's pure speculation based on hypotheticals. Josh would still have to prove it. Do I hope he does? Dang skippy because as Allen goes, obviously so do the Bills.