Beck Water

Thirty-six, twenty-four, thirty-six oh what a winning hand

Suggestion: if you want to deepen your understanding, wander over to the JT O’Sullivan thread and follow the sub-thread where I speculate that Tampa was trying to leverage Josh’s tendencies and Hoofhearted tells me it’s just busted coverage. There’s a back and forth where I ask who should have been covering Shakir and Hoofhearted, Buffalo716, Einstein, and a couple others respond with a back-and-forth about what the coverage actually is (spoiler: go with Hoof) and therefore who should be picking him up. It’s pretty eye-opening about just how intricate coverage responsibilities really are, just how subtle the clues that the QB needs to pick up about what the coverage is can be, and so forth. “Instincts”, in the sense of “go with your gut” can truly equal blown coverage and big gains. The “instinctive” coaches and front office people talk about, means something very different - it means someone who understands the offense and understands what that means to their role in the specific defense they’re playing in so well, that they can react with out conscious thought But it doesn’t mean “go out and ad lib”, which is what not understanding the specific defensive responsibilities in different options specified by a given play call would lead to.

I guess I’m dating myself, but when I was a kid, self-service gas pumps were a novel thing only just getting started. Pull up to a pump, and someone would actually pump the gas for you, wipe your windshield while it filled, and maybe even check the oil and the air in your tires. I’d tip for that, but it was actually just something the service stations offered in those days IIRC. Or maybe they did it for free for my mom? Mom was a Brick House in those days.

Doesn’t this totally screw the restaurants, who can be left with a lot of orders they have prepared, but which aren’t being delivered and thus will result in either them not getting paid (since the customer can say “I never got it, I’m not paying”) or a dissatisfied customer who receives food that has been sitting under the heat lamps for hours (or else sitting around at room temp, becoming unsafe)? And probably blames the restaurant, not the deliverer. My understanding is Doordash really screws the restaurants as well https://www.cpr.org/2021/05/19/restaurants-are-fed-up-with-grubhub-doordash-and-others-now-theyve-got-legislators-on-their-side/ We always call the restaurant directly or make sure we’re on their actual website and see if they have an order link, who they want to use If there’s a local alternative for deliveries we use that.

So riffing along your points….Yeah, Poyer and Hyde have the mind-meld going for sure. So taking him out of that mind-meld duo would seem to lessen us at Safety. On the other hand, Damned Straight that part of the ‘secret sauce’ of the Bills D has been that Milano could really cover, and both Johnson and Poyer could play DB like a ‘backer. So Poyer has been “taking the life” out of himself, by being willing to play hard like that for years…but it seems as though he’s really lost range this year, though maybe it’s just recovering from his week 3 knee injury that kept him out week 4. An alternative view point would be maybe playing Poyer like a WLB will extend his playing window, because otherwise maybe as he meshes in more (I know LA fans would throw up in their mouths at the notion) Rapp might be playing better at safety? I didn’t think Poyer had particular problems game 2 and 3 (before injury). I thought he struggled some when he came back, ‘playing himself healthy’ was my take. But he’s definitely lost some speed and range, so maybe putting him closer to the LOS and letting him thump is more helpful than wicked? I agree that Bernard has fit in surprisingly well. I thought Williams has shown flashes, but obviously the coaches decided he needs to go “back in the pot” to cook some more. I just hope Benford’s hammy is nothing serious, and I hope Douglas comes on board quickly because frankly, I don’t seen Benford and Jackson as quite “good enough”. Guess we’ll find out tomorrow…… Is that why there were “plumber’s candles” on your Cupcakes? 😘

Um…. Dude, if your manner of reacting is to attack, there IS no practical difference between attacking and reacting. I’ve been here a long time with a couple previous screen names (no, I wasn’t banned). I’ve seen fans of other teams come and go many a time. I’ve seen them come with respect, and be respected and well regarded in turn. I’ve seen them come in hot and been asked by a mod in PM and/or by other posters to tone it down and turn to having great football convo, I’ve seen them come in hot and stay hot and get the bum’s rush out the door. I’ll say this. You’re essentially telling me your only conversational tool is a hammer. As the saying goes, “when your only tool is a hammer, Everything looks like a Nail.” There’s a lot of room between being pugnacious and attacking in response to a bit of snark, vs “shut up, bend over, and take it”. I don’t find it necessary to be rude or go around attacking people, but I’d like to think most folks here know that doesn’t mean they’re gonna have a ‘battle of wits” with an unarmed person if they choose to take me on and I choose to respond. But I feel no requirement to respond; I will, if it suits my mood and purpose. I won’t, if it doesn’t. That doesn’t mean I’m “bending over and taking it”, it’s a message board ferCripesakes. No one is going to push your face in the sand or kick sand in it if you focus on what you say you came for, which is football talk.

What did you think of the strategy of going to Dime and bringing Poyer up while putting Rapp at safety

If a player sits out a practice with an injury, the correct designation is “DNP” not limited. If Benford sat out the entire practice but was listed as “limited”, that would be a violation with the league. The Bills listed Benford on injury report with a “hamstring” and designated him “limited”. Most people would consider that definitive that Benford in fact has some form of hamstring injury which allowed him to practice, but kept him from completing the practice in full. No need to “suspect” anything

The point is, these aren’t fans who don’t appreciate “how hard it is to find an open guy on a broken play” pointing this out. These are guys who have played professional NFL ball and/or college ball/coached, and who well understand the details of how offensive plays are designed and what the normal order of reads is, who understand the details of defensive coverage, and who are pointing out things like “the rail route is usually the first read on this play because the mesh routes are designed to interfere with the rail defender, and that was wide open and Josh had time to hit it. Instead he flushed to the L, signaled the TE to improvise by running down the sideline, and made the play”. That's great when it works, big gain, but when it doesn't, it's 3 and out while the Rail route was the "easy" button to a 1D on 3rd and 4. Or people like Greg Cosell who has forgotten more nuances of QB play than I’ll ever know, saying “I thought the curl to Davis was the right read on that play”. The man spends his life evaluating QB play and breaking down film and is widely respected all over the league. So yeah, I don’t think it should be blown off in this case as “oh, these podcast guys just don’t understand how hard it is to play QB in the NFL”. With guys like Kurt Warner and JT O’Sullivan, they clearly understand how hard it is - they’ve done it.

I apologize that I lack the energy about it to go back and look, but I thought you were saying basically everything was hunky-dory for this game, couldn't be better. I don't think a QB with a sore shoulder on his throwing arm who DNP one day exactly 'bodes well'. The GM basically saying "OK, we need help at CB, DT, and RB" but not having those guys in the building with enough time to really learn their roles is also an issue. I'm not saying those will be causes to lose the game, I'm just saying that I think there are several factors that don't bode well, that handicap us.

People were getting annoyed because he was behaving in a way we generally consider trollish, while saying he's just here for good football talk. Slinging insults around, being kinda pugnacious. He seems to have backed it down several notches now.

We start Benford and Jackson. My guess is Norman is there primarily to take some of Cam Lewis ST snaps in case something happens and he has to come in at CB. Damar Hamlin may be active also, for ST and in case we need a 2nd backup safety if Lewis is already playing. Great question of course is whether or not Rasul Douglas is active this week. Well, Gosh, I guess we might as well forfeit the game, pack up, and head back to Buffalo.

The problem the Bills faced, is that they started with a hampered Jordan Poyer and then their 3rd string safety, Jaquan Johnson who was mostly a ST guy and a step below Damar Hamlin. Then Poyer went out, and they played about 1/5 of the game with Johnson and Cam Lewis, who was primarily a DB at that point, at Safety. There's a limit to how many disguises you can pull off when you're playing with 3rd string players who aren't used to either playing with each other, or to actual game snaps on defense. Sure, "next man up", but rinse and repeat too many times and you wind up with weak soup. Similar issue on the DL, where we went into the game with both our rotational 3TDT injured and our primary 1TDT out. Limit to how much stunting you can effectively pull off effectively with 3rd stringers and guys playing out of position. Yes, McDermott will likely be more aggressive. They changed safety coaches in the off-season in part to be able to disguise coverage better - teams were reading our nickel last year. In addition, Frazier openly said in pressers that he didn't like to make too many changes because he thought the players would lose faith in the coaches and the game prep if he changed the game plan. McDermott is more 'well that didn't work, let's try this' I think we're only adding 1 DT, basically to fill in for DaQuan Jones.

Except that several "film room guys" and a coach have broken down play after play and shown that Allen in fact has alternatives on many (not all) plays

McDermott had a plan to collapse the interior pocket last year. It was called Ed Oliver and DaQuan Jones. Jones was out for the playoff game, and Oliver was playing in a LB brace. Jordan Phillips was playing hampered and saw minimal snaps. So McDermott, perforce, started the game trying to collapse the pocket with Tim Settle and Eli Ankou, and also tried injured Ed Oliver and Boogie Basham, who got swapped to the Giants for a case of frozen pizza dough. Also to take into account, we started the game with injured Jordan Poyer and Dean Marlowe at safety, then turned to Jaquan Johnson and Cam Lewis. Our starting CBs were Tre White and Kaiir Elam (you know, the guy who's been a healthy scratch this season?). And Tre White was not playing well at the end of last season. Were you watching the same game I was? The Fuq?

That's consistent of you, but many in the media do not give the QB a pass - which is why Burrows isn't getting one. You might not be, but several Bengals players very notably are. Ja'mar Chase and Tee Higgins I believe? They seem determined to use the out of context words of a minor player no longer on the team to rev themselves up. I think after the Jets game, Josh had a come-to-Jesus meeting with the coaching staff (and probably with himself, since he comes across as self-aware). There was an interception in the Jax game on the 7 yd line that cost us. Strange decision to throw that. It wasn't in the red zone, and it was on 3rd and 15 from the Buf 41, so one philosophy there is "why not take a shot?" but within the structure of the offense, he might have had a short throw that would gain 7-8 yds on 2nd down and another that could convert. It's not just turnovers, or redzone turnovers. It's decisions to roll out and operate outside the structure of the offense, when there are easy plays to be made for easy 1st downs within the structure of the offense. Those plays aren't always there, but sometimes they are and Josh overlooks them.

I don't think it's just that he's won a Superbowl. Burrow seems to be more of a system QB, by which I mean nothing negative, just that he's shown he can play effectively and consistently within the structure of the offensive play design (system), take advantage of his elite weapons, and effectively use what the defense gives him. And he does have 3 elite receiving weapons and the support of a strong run game. Allen to date has at times played within the structure of the offensive play design and taken advantage of what the defense gives him, but he also goes outside the playbook and creates when he doesn't have to at times. This is a double edged sword. He can be brilliant, and he can also contribute majorly to the loss of the game. I think both to elevate his game to the next level, AND to be perceived as a top QB, Allen needs to show mastery of operating within the structure of the offense on a more consistent basis.

Well, for starters, a QB who doesn't DNP Weds with a sore shoulder. Don't you think an uninjured starting QB could be a key factor? Josh has been bad mentally in several games, starting with the opener at the Jets.

It wasn't a stomping, but I thoroughly enjoyed Sept 25, 2011. There the Pats were, leading 24-17 going into the 4th Q after getting ahead 21-0 at the start of the 2Q FredEx, a Drayton Florence (who?) pick 6, and they're losing 31-24. Then they tied it up, and we're all "oh, here we go again with 'just give it to them' or its cousin", but one FG later they got to boo-hoo on home. I forget what it was, but it was supposed to be some sort of milestone game for the Pats if they won. 16-0 in 2016 with Brissett at QB was not nearly as sweet

Why do you feel Joe Burrow requires "a pass" on his performance? Other QB have started the season slowly, perhaps due to lingering injury (Mahomes at the start of 2021) Other QB have been injured during the season and played through it, slowing them down (Josh in mid-2020, end of 2022, now) Do they get a pass, or do they get "he's in a slump" or "see, he's not that good" or yes, maybe "off to a slow start"?

I think where Beane and the coaches got to this season, is that in theory, it is NOT the same thing In practice, for Josh...it seems to be, because once he starts running, his competitive nature comes out, and he'll fight for every grass blade instead of "being careful with his body" That was my point to the guy....if he's here for great football talk, engaging in what you call "pissy battles" (I like it) not only isn't great football talk .....It will cause a number of strong football posters to look at what he posts, categorize him as a troll/ s h i t stirrer and ignore him.

I mean, we heard the same thing about the Chiefs after we had back-to-back losses to them in the 2020 season. We couldn't measure up, we couldn't beat them, how could we contain Kelce AND Hill. 2021, we beat them very solidly in the regular season only to lose by 13 seconds in the playoffs, then beat them in 2022 again. The Bengals were a better team end of last season and they're presumed to be the better team until we prove we can beat them. I'd feel a heck of a lot better about this game if we had White, Milano, and Jones.

I think what they've both said is that they want him to take fewer hits. They want him to go out of bounds or slide. The problem, as Beane has phrased it, is that when Josh runs and takes a few hits, he gets "lathered up" and competitive, and won't do that.

Oh, Yeah. The Titans first two drives in the Thursday night game vs Pittsburgh were just BRUTAL to watch. Brilliant defensive play, sack, tackler has both arms down trying not to land full body weight on the QB, "roughing the passer" etc etc etc. Flag Flag Flag Flag. I thought Tomlin was going to swallow his headset, starting with the mic

Let me express, I thought it was a damned shame Anarumo wasn't offered a HC job somewhere else this off season - preferably in the NFC 😁 That's a valid point and McDermott falls rather into the same category - worries far more about points than yards. That said, historically, when a defense has a big difference between points and yards given up, it usually means turnovers are a factor. The Bengals 2022 defense was actually very well matched in points and yards - 7th and 8th. 2021, 7th and 13th, not a huge disparity. So they actually WEREN'T giving up disproportionate yards 2021 and 2022. This season to date the Bengals D has collected 13 turnovers, 4th in the league, and that probably goes a ways to explain how they're 27th in yards given up but 17th for points. Meanwhile your offense is very clean, only 6 turnovers all season which is 2nd in the leage. TL;DR @Scott7975 has a point. I think there's a point there. Josh has said in interviews "Sometimes I need a little contact"