Maine-iac
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Posts posted by Maine-iac
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30 minutes ago, HappyDays said:
Coming back to this, I watched the next several the plays through Allen's INT. Here's what I saw:
5th passing play - 1st and 10 from the Bills 38. This is the first play I've seen where I have no clue what Allen is looking at. I think ultimately he gets caught staring at the rush. Kincaid runs a quick hitch to the short right. I don't mind Allen passing him up, he would have been tackled immediately for a 3 gain. But then Knox comes open in a clear passing window right behind Kincaid. From the view behind Allen it is a wide open passing lane in his vision IF he stands in the pocket and lets it develop a second longer. Instead Allen looks down at the rush and then bails a clean pocket left. He ends up throwing it away. I think he let earlier interior pressure get into his head and affect his process here.
6th passing play - Protection breakdown on a 4 man rush. The MLB comes right up the middle unblocked. Either Morse or Torrence screwed up here. Morse helps double McGovern's man, Torrence helps double Brown's man. Nobody picks up the MLB so the play is DOA.
Also frustrating on this play is that Diggs could have drawn a DPI if he had made an effort. While running right away from the free rusher Allen launches a prayer deep to Diggs. If Diggs stops and comes back for the ball it's almost certainly DPI as we see with underthrown deep passes all the time. Instead he lets it bounce harmlessly off the DB's back.
7th passing play - Torrence is dusted by Barmore off the snap. This is as bad any rep we got from Saffold last year. Because of immediate pressure Allen takes a quick pass to Sherfield who drops it, but he would have been tackled short of the sticks here on 3rd down anyways. No time for routes to develop past the sticks so once again the play is DOA.
8th passing play - 3rd and goal from the 6. Super tight window throw to Kincaid that is off by about half a foot. It's a keyhole throw that they just barely don't connect on. I don't really blame anyone here, it is tight coverage at the most difficult area of the field.
I have seen people point out Shakir gets open on the opposite end of the field but Allen was never looking that way. He has Diggs and Kincaid to the short side of the field against man coverage. A pass to Shakir would have required to start with his eyes on that side because of how far away from the ball Shakir ends up. Davis manages to take out 3 defenders on a rub route but Allen couldn't have predicted that.
9th passing play - 1st and 10 from the Pats 46. Allen misses by a couple inches on a rail route to Cook. I don't see any major mechanical issues here, he just overthrew it.
10th passing play - Now 2nd and 10. It's a mesh route where Allen ends up throwing the ball at Davis's feet when a free rusher gets in his face. I don't think any single player is at fault here, the Pats defensive scheme just won the play. Davis kind of screws up on his mesh getting around the MLB and trips up Morris who's running the opposite mesh but eh it's hard to blame him. Pats blitz gets a free rusher home before anyone has a chance to get open so Allen wisely dirts it.
11th passing play - Now 3rd and 10. Either Allen and Sherfield aren't on the same page or Allen totally misses the pass high and wide. Sherfield runs a deep hitch and finishes the route with inside leverage. Allen throws the pass out to the sideline. I don't know what happened here. It was either a minor miscommunication or Allen sailed it.
12th passing play - The INT. I don't know if this is my bias showing but I really don't blame Allen here. First of all there is no short play here other than a late developing check down to Murrary. It's a two man shot play all the way and based on Sherfield's route (more on that on a bit) I think the play was always designed to go to Kincaid. Allen is reading Alex Austin who clearly shows leverage towards Sherfield running the podt route. However, Sherfield totally dogs his route. It's embarrassing. He does not convince anyone that the ball is coming in his direction. As a result I believe Austin notices this and quickly spins away from Sherfield just as Allen is releasing the ball. Really smart play from Austin here recognizing that Sherfield was running a clear out route (with assistance from Sherfield's poor acting job) and unfortunately he drops off Sherfield right when Allen is releasing the ball so he ends up in perfect position to undercut the pass and intercept it. If you want evidence that Belichick still has his coaching chops, this play was clearly the result of brilliant coaching on a bottom of the roster caliber player.
So all in all I saw one truly awful play from Allen where he unnecessarily ran out of a clean pocket and missed an open passing window. He missed a pass to Cook by a couple inches and a pass to Kincaid by less than that. I saw a ton of protection breakdowns from Torrence in particular, he had a brutal first half. Sherfield was a net negative. A drop, an incomplete pass in his direction, and poor effort on a clear out route leading to an INT. Diggs is unable to separate 1v1. Davis might as well not be a WR, he is either blocking or running rub and clearing routes.
Just a very messy set of passing plays for a multitude of reasons. Personally I think the central reason still is that we don't have pass catchers that separate quickly. Everything tends to be too long developing so when our IOL doesn't hold up the play is DOA.
Pats had just made it 14 to 20. We don't need to be turning the ball over on 1st down anywhere on the field and the guy wasn't open. If the Pats kicker wasn't a turd we have another 4th quarter fiasco. I guess guys not getting open goes hand in hand with throwing more picks because he doesn't know where to go with the ball but there's got to be a way not to spot the other team an extra possession every game. I feel like there are passes missing in there somewhere because I remember Josh being pretty off with his throws with some of them being caught and some not. I haven't re-watched any of the game though so maybe I'm remembering it wrong.
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I'm sorry but I have to give Brady props. Sure the passing game isn't lighting it up. Defenses are playing the pass and it's the players more than the scheme that isn't working. That said the fact that he is smart enough to lean on the running game and creating enough offense to score some points and keep our defense from being on the field all game I think is the difference between a Brady win and a Dorsey loss. No offense to Allen (and not that it's all his fault) but if we throw 50 times a game over the last 5 games I'm not sure we win 4 out of 5.
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9 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:
I’m curious if you have any proof to support this gator arms insult.
Like a video clip.
Or are you just making ish up?
It's combine measurements. His 40 and vertical are better than Diggs, Addison, and a lot of other guys. His arms on the other hand are 2 inches shorter. Closest I've found was Addison at 30 7/8th. Shakir measured 29. That said he has a 5 inch vertical advantage.
Most combine measurements are on their wiki pages
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Thinking more about it, it also explains the horrible WR screens. They're running them to Diggs trying to get him touches but if he's not right and can't cut and make guys miss it would explain why he's not doing much with them.
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12 minutes ago, HappyDays said:
I just watched all-22 of the first two drives of this game and my first takeaway is that we need to start designing the reads to account for the fact that Diggs is no longer a reliable 1v1 option.
So first passing play of the game is blown up by McGovern and Torrence. Allen comes out of play action, literally everybody is going to be open but he already has pressure in his face by two interior rushers and the play is DOA.
2nd passing play - Allen immediately looks at Diggs running a whip route 1v1 to the short right side of the field. Diggs never comes close to separating. In the past this has been an automatic completion. By the time Allen moves to his next read the OL has been beat and he launches a very low percentage pass to Kincaid downfield just to get rid of the ball. On the left side of the field Shakir actually beats his man on a deep out route. It's a beautiful route. But Allen started with Diggs on the other side (presumably because this is the built in #1 matchup against man coverage) and that was that.
3rd play - This is right after our INT so we have the ball inside the 20. Diggs runs a post corner to the left. Allen starts by checking middle field safety who runs right to cover Kincaid. After confirming Diggs is now in single coverage he stares him down but once again Diggs never comes close to separating so Allen ends up throwing the ball away as pressure gets there (not the OL's fault - it's a 6 man blitz). If Allen had looked to replace the blitz with the throw he would have hit Shakir running a quick slant off the line for probably a 6 or 7 yard gain. But apparently his read is automatically look at Diggs if Diggs is in 1v1 coverage.
The 4th passing play is Cook dropping the screen on 3rd down.
I don't have time for more right now, but my big takeaway is they need to remove Diggs 1v1 in man coverage as an automatic read. Diggs just isn't that guy right now.
Stating the obvious but it creates a two fold problem. One is that Diggs isn't getting open and 2 is that Allen is not looking at the guys who are getting open waiting on Diggs. Hopefully Diggs is just nicked up and will return to some form of himself soon or Allen comes off him a little quicker in progressions.
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3 minutes ago, Rockinon said:
I get the frustration. To me it seems they need some of those one read plays in the offense like Miami does, just to get things rolling. Something besides running on 1st down so much.
It's just the way I watch football, any game, when the play starts I count to three and I start saying "get rid of the ball". Not much good happens when you hold the ball for a long time after that. Allen has made a lot of plays after I had already yelled at the TV "get rid of the ball". I don't think my natural instincts are ever going to change though. Once the ball is snapped, in an efficient offense, for the most part the ball should be out in 3 seconds. I mean your occasional deep shot and if they only rush 3 or something and you can work the coverage. It shouldn't be your typical offense to be running around and holding the ball every play. Although I don't think I'm saying anything everyone doesn't already know. A lot of ideas about the problems and unfortunately it's problem a little bit of everything.
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6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
I like Shakir coming out too. I had a 3rd round grade on him in that draft. But at the same time the tape told the story last year. He was struggling. I don't think it was just a case of usage. He wasn't ready. Which isn't a huge surprise. He came from a very gimmicky system at Boise and last year he was in the wrong place, ran the wrong routes, struggled to understand spacing vs zone and (I think because his head was swimming) had concentration issues catching the ball. Possibly this season Dorsey could have used him more, but the key thing is he is a considerably better player now than he was as a rookie.
Seeing the ball less than Cook I guess it makes sense that he took a little longer to come around. He started showing up in the playoffs last year and luckily it carried over. Hopefully he keeps making plays. The more the better.
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6 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:
There is no WR on the roster that has the quickness to play slot right now. I suspect they thought Sherfield or Hardy could compete for that role but they have been total busts.
Shakir just is not good enough. He is a very nice #4 WR.
What exactly makes you say Shakir isn't quick enough to be a slot WR? Puka Nacua wants to know.
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13 minutes ago, UmbrellaMan said:
Can Kaiir Elam play WR? He ran a 4.39 at the combine, and was an excellent WR in high school.
Shakir ran a 4.43 ................ not sure why so many people say he's slow.
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39 minutes ago, Einstein said:
Your argument was that Josh is not throwing to open guys.
I asked you for examples.
You provided an example where he threw to a wide open guy. You’re moving the goalposts.
And that throw was one that Josh Allen can absolutely make as long as he sets his feet and throws with fundamentals. Heck, he almost made it while on the run!
If you think these 2 defenders are letting him get more than 3 or 4 yards, well, I guess you don’t understand the speed of NFL defenders.
He may have struggled to get much past the LOS.
I’m ready for more examples.
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That is before Allen even bails the pocket. The outside corner headed down field. I guess it's the difference between 3rd and short vs the Chargers ball at mid field. This is as Allen is throwing the ball. The TE is going to get some yards here. Hell if Allen just runs that way the TE blocks and it's probably a first down.
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8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:
I don't think this is right at all. Allen hasn't had an issue choosing to throw the ball short this year. I think it's actually been his best year in that regard.
As for Cook's short passes, we're seeing how easy it is for defenses to take those away when they make it a point to do so. Early in the season Cook was getting ignored because defenses didn't think Allen would take those throws. Now that those throws are on film defenses are assigning guys to specifically cover him so Allen has to go elsewhere. The one swing pass he threw to Cook yesterday was dropped for a 4 yard loss, and he threw it to him as a check down because Diggs was smothered by his 1v1 man coverage. It isn't as simple as just throwing Cook the ball and expecting magic to happen.
Honestly all of the recent issues on offense come back to Diggs. Defenses don't have to pick their poison by taking one coverage man and bracketing him on Diggs. They can leave Diggs in single coverage and still have enough players in coverage to take away everyone else including would-be check downs. Running a passing offense without a single reliable go-to guy is really tough sledding, made worse by the fact that we get zero explosion from our WR depth chart.
You are right in that defenses have to play Cook more lately but that's because he had 125 yards and 2 TD's just a couple weeks ago and Cook in the passing game is one of the reasons we won the Chiefs game. You are also right that not having a reliable go to guy hurts. As much as I do think Allen needs to speed up getting the ball out and take the easy stuff more often I'm not oblivious to the fact that guys are dropping a number of those throws. Short throws that move the sticks are definitely less effective if guys aren't catching the short throws. It's been hard to watch. Allen will tattoo the TE and it skips off his hands (still he should catch it). Then Allen throws an easy one to a back for a would be first down and they drop it. Then they call a WR screen and it get's blown up 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage.
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1 minute ago, Einstein said:
Perfect example of not providing any context.
Sure, the TE was open for a 3 yard gain. But so was the player Allen threw it to…Diggs had 2 steps on his defender and would have walked into the end zone with a better throw. Mahomes would have made the same decision - to throw to Diggs.
You want to criticize Allen for not stopping, setting his feet, and then throwing it? Sure, go for it. I’d agree with you. But the decision itself was perfectly fine. He threw to a guy wide open downfield that would have been a TD instead of a 3 yard gain.
If you want a QB that takes the 3 yard TE gain over the wide open receiver streaking downfield, then you want Tyrod Taylor back.
Except your pic is a guy across the field 50 yards down field and the guy I showed was open for far more than 3 yards and again it was 2nd and 7 and we are 7 yards from our own end zone. It is part of the reason we aren't beating up on teams we should be beating up on because we give them short fields turning the ball over when we should be moving the chains.
Next two plays Josh misses open guys. Granted he hits Davis on the scramble drill on the second play but it's part of what is making things harder. We don't play on schedule getting the ball out and mistakes are eventually made keeping teams in the game with us. I love that Allen makes the big plays but I would like to see more on schedule, getting the ball out, type throws.
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Allen throwing the pick on 2nd and 7 standing 7 yards from our end zone. TE is wide open.
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1 minute ago, Einstein said:
That’s EVERY single QB in NFL history.
You could find these situations in every game for Brady, Elway, Marino, Kelly, etc.
People just didn’t think about it because ALL-22 wasn’t as accessible back then.
Almost every time someone writes something like this, I check the play and they conveniently forgot to mention the context.
For example, Josh having two defenders about to hit him and he therefore didn’t have time to get through his progressions. Or the WR being the last read in that play. Or the receiver getting open after Allen already moved past that read (but was blanketed when Allen looked at him).
If you are watching enough game film to know he moved past a read that came open then you should also know that he's looked right at open receivers and not pulled the trigger. Like I said I haven't seen this weeks All 22 but it's there almost every week. Not saying every play but a lot of plays.
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1 minute ago, Drew21PA said:
I was asking a question still haven’t answered
I’m not going anywhere with it I don’t understand why you’re under estimating the fact that over the last month of football they are pretty much top 5 and top 3 in some catagories
this season they rank 6th in total defense
when they are top in the league yes you are going to have the problems we had yesterday. It is what it is.
they were playing at a higher level their goal was to knock us out at home and they played great.
tip
but I also credit the bills they won 20 points on offense that’s better than the average they gave up all season so shatever
no I’m not entirely satisfied but understanding the dynamics - I’m ok with yesterday
I answered your question, you quoted it saying I didn't answer your question and then you went on to do exactly what I said you'd do. Not sure what to tell you. If Allen only showed these problems this week against this defense then you'd have something.
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Just now, Einstein said:
Allen missing one or two plays (like ALL quarterbacks) does not negate the point that our receivers are not getting separation.
Haven't seen the All 22 on this game but every game to date there are guys open. Usually for 5 or 6 yard gains and sometimes earlier than Allen likes so he holds the ball and the deep guy never gets open and he passes up the short pass ect ect. I'll eat my words if the All 22 shows differently but it's there every week. Someone posted Shakir running wide open for a TD Josh looking the other way. Not saying it doesn't happen but he's missing the guys that are open, guys are dropping passes, and he's not seeing guys that are open more than no on is open.
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Just now, Drew21PA said:
You deflected it was just a question to see what you think
I may be wrong but I wasn't so much deflecting as I imagined where you were going with that question. The Pats defense almost always plays pretty well.
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Just now, Drew21PA said:
Ohhhhh kay
hey quickly do you consider the patriots defense excellent the last month and a half ?
Does the result differ between the Pats or the Chargers? Does it matter how good the defense is because I don't think it's the defense causing most of our problems.
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2 minutes ago, Drew21PA said:
Again I see it different against a good defense in NE
4 drops I think on the top of my head
does 20/30
1 TD oassing
2 TD running
200 yards passing look better?
that’s would it should have been easily
If we were playing ifs and buts then we could add in drops and we could also imagine that Allen hit his deep throws and didn't throw low and behind on half his throws and then he would have been 25 of 30 for 300 yards 2TD's passing and 2 rushing but it doesn't work like that. WR's need to be better as much as Allen but Allen has the ball in his hands every play.
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6 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:
Some pretty bad takes on here about Brady. He is part of the reason we are in the playoffs. Team clearly played more balanced offense despite passing game struggling at times. The struggles of the offense are poor execution by qb and wrs. Simple as that. Weird pattern of blaming coaches on here for anything that doesnt work on the field. Same with the "McD doesnt have these guys prepared" takes when they arent up by 3 TDs.
If anything thank god for Brady because he is willing to lean on the running game which has been our best offense and probably saved us from more turnovers because I'm not sure throwing it 50 times in the last 4 or 5 games would have produced better results.
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58 minutes ago, Motorin' said:
I was about to start this thread! I agree with him as WR3 and the primary slot receiver. He's good against man and zone, and is very good running after the catch.
To be a #3 in this offense means he should be getting 70-80 targets per year. About 5 per game... He's averaged 2.5 per game this year.
Catching 33 passes out of 39 targets is outstanding.
Josh needs to go to him more for the remainder of the season. And they should run those run plays to him a couple times per game.
People consistently saying he doesn't have the speed yet there's a boat load of guys much slower (Kupp, Adams, Nacua) catching 100 passes. Shakir has the same size, weight, and 40 time as Diggs. The line is that he has shorter arms for what that's worth. Either way if Davis left in free agency and we somehow don't replace him I'm not against Shakir getting a shot outside.
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Allen has had a hard time finding the open guys (because they have been open)all year. He also holds the ball for the guy 15 yards down the field until the short pass is no longer there and then he gets chased around and sometimes he makes a big play and sometimes he gets sacked. Defenses are all playing for the deeper passes and throwing in blitzes and the short passes are (and have been) there every single game and Josh turns them down over and over again. I for the life of me can't understand why Cook doesn't get more simple swing passes (as an extension of the running game) for the easy and 5 or 6 yards. We start killing people with short passes they will have to adjust their defenses but to this point they adjusted by run blitzing more but ultimately they still play deep coverage because we just don't throw it short consistently.
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The game wrecking CB was Douglas the guy we traded for at the trade deadline. On offense Allen is off, as in not very accurate off. Throw in a few ill advised throws and then the fact that he loses his mind on occasion and looks to lateral the ball with guys hanging all over him. Then throwing deep to a covered TE (double covered actually) on 1st down all ill advised. Luckily our defense was making stops to go along with the turnovers because we've lost or fell behind in games just like this one too many times this year. McDermott seems to have finally the right mix of when to bring pressure and when to cover.
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Why don't we have swing passes and easy short throws to the TE? Why is everything so hard?
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Joe Brady vs Ken Dorsey- Has He Been Better?
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
I'm always going to be in favor of more rushing and less turnovers especially if the points and first downs are the same or better. If we threw the ball more and had less turnovers I'd be in favor of that.