SoTier
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Posts posted by SoTier
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38 minutes ago, thunderingsquid said:
I think we need to approach this year with skepticism. We have a dumpster fire on our hands at o line, the big glaring reason but not the only is the disappearance of Wood and Incognito. A talent flush.
The silver lining is that we have a lot of cap space next year, the draft is deep at tackle (but not guard or center) but the free agent market is deep at all three OL positions.
I trust the law firm of McDermott and Beane to get us some help but it won't come very soon.
Hoping some creativity on offense, some run game help from Shady and Dawkins' return can mask some of our woes. I'm not sold on Peterman as starter but he does not hold on to the ball as much as Allen.
I've been a Bills fan since I was about 13. I'm 68. I no longer trust anybody in any position of authority in the Bills FO or on the coaching staff to actually have a clueabout how to build a winning team. The late John Butler was the last competent exec at OBD, and he left for California back in 2000 or 2001.
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2 hours ago, Trogdor said:
Whaley was really good at FA, but not great at the draft. That being said, outside of qb, a lot of his draft picks are still in the league. Beane reminds me of Tim Murray more and more everyday.
That's 28th amongst starters. I've see a few that had him last.
Whaley was good in the draft, too. His draft picks are sprinkled all over the NFL on playoff teams, including SB winning Philly. His problem was that when the Bills hired a new HC, they always hired one who wanted to start from scratch with his own players in his own system rather than change his system to fit the players he had.
16 hours ago, Punt75 said:These two centers were awful today. Bodine was ranked 28th out of the starting centers in the NFL. Why did they sign him? Ryan Groy was supposed to be Woods replacement at Center yet he's 2nd string at guard & center. I see nothing at all positive from him.
New England pays their center $800,000.
Any explanation???
He's on his rookie contract. Unless they're first rounders, OLers don't get paid a lot.
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2 minutes ago, ******* said:
If peterman starts what is the point of keeping AJ? Showcase him on Thursday then trade him
If you watched the game yesterday, the only question you should be asking is, is Beane updating his database of NFL FA QBs hourly? Methinks he'll need it.
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3 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:
While Castillo should share lots of the blame, at the end of the day the Bills really don't have much talent on their o line
This. I'm not a Castillo fan, but let's get a couple of things straight here.
- Castillo didn't decide on the zone blocking scheme the Bills changed to in 2017 and have kept in 2018. That was Dennison and Daboll.
- Castillo didn't decide to bring in Ducasse or Newhouse or Bodine. He didn't let Seantrell Henderson walk in FA or trade away Cordy Glenn. He didn't ignore OL in the draft until very late in the fifth round, either. Those "sins" all sit squarely on McDermott and Beane.
IOW, Castillo is dealing with the hand he's been dealt by those higher up the Bills food chain than assistant coach.
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5 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:
I don’t think it was planned. I do think they wanted to see Allen throwing intermediate to deep routes. Dabolls play calling when Allen was in there reflected this. The OL didn’t hold up as well as they’d hoped. They weren’t going to try to negate this rush by showing anything they have planned for the regular season. Aside from changing line combos, that is. I’d agree with your list of concerns by position, though.
How could the Bills coaching staff have "hoped" that the OL would be better for Allen than it was for McCarron against Cleveland? Both Allen and McCarron got mugged by pretty good but hardly great pass rushes. I can understand fans blaming McCarron for his dismal performance against the Browns, but the coaching staff? That seems quite unbelievable unless they thought the offense played flat against Cleveland. Of course, it looked like the entire team came out flat and stayed that way for the entire game against Cinci, which is not a good omen.
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12 hours ago, Agent 91 said:
Sure. Seems like while they both mismanaged the cap at times Whaley had the eye. His problem as a GM was that he was more of a scout. I envision his job as the HC saying I need a guy who can do this thing. And Whaley instantly knowing Corey Graham, Zach Brown, Nikel Robeys. He just had a knack for the unheard of people who just worked. I could be argued down but faith and all these corny mantras didn't exist. For those people who really liked Jim Schwartz, he was pushing for Hue Jackson who would have tried to keep Schwartz on. OK Hue has been pretty bad, but where is Rex? I just feel like he wanted better FB players and was prepped to sacrifice the content of team character.
Beane and McD seem to want to win. But the right way. And so far 2 offseasons this has been pretty bad. The mismanagement of draft picks, no attempt to fortify a line where are the wrs? I am just having a tough time trusting this process.
What is "the right way"? What I see is McDermott and Beane bringing in their pals from Carolina or gambling on guys with injury issues or guys who've failed on other teams. I see them basically trying to copy the Carolina Panthers, but somewhat on the cheap. I'd rather have them try to copy the Philadelphia Eagles ... a team that went from 7-9 under Chip Kelly to 13-3 and Super Bowl champs two seasons later.
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13 hours ago, JaCrispy said:
I think we will actually need a few of those seasons to actually get better...only way to infuse blue chip players at the top of the draft- just like ‘84 & ‘85 Bills.
That's worked so well for the Browns recently hasn't it? OTOH, teams like Philly, Pittsburgh, KC, Atlanta, and even Baltimore, Carolina, Denver, Cinci etc, not to mention NE, seem to draft middle or low in the draft every year and still manage to find quality players. To rephrase "it ain't the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog", it's not where you draft, it's who you draft.
Unfortunately, in the modern NFL, it's not even who you draft but how you manage your personnel so that you can keep as many of the good players you do draft as possible past their rookie contracts. The Bills have been masters at f'ing that up for the last 20 years ... and McDermott and Beane seem to be even more clueless about that their predecessors.
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44 minutes ago, dneveu said:
I say wait for cuts and sift through the trash.
We can get some cap savings if we cut any of groy/newhouse/ducasse
Not very much ... Groy is the big ticket guy in that group at 2.5 million.
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1 hour ago, Mango said:
I like McD. Not calling him to be fired nor Beane.
a lot of our holes and current cap situation is created by the current FO. They shot themselevs in the foot. I don’t want to turn over the FO, but I am keeping a close eye. Wasn’t a fan of the Darby, Glenn (I do understand this helped us get Allen), or Darius trades. They also failed to bring in quality replacements on the OL. I think we should have tried harder to keep Preston Brown. Our starting defense as a whole and offensive line could be much better.
Instead we created roster holes and dead cap because Whaley I guess. They’re in a tough spot because they put themselves in a tough spot.
The Dareus trade with the Starr signing, means our starting DT costs us about 25 million this year with salary and dead cap,
Excellent post.
2 hours ago, njbuff said:I will say this.
2 retirements and the trading of Glenn meant the Bills had to keep Vlad on this roster, force Miller to start and an uninspiring battle to ensue at C.
There is precedent to a bad OL derailing an entire season. Ask the 2017 New York Giants.
I am no fan of overreacting to preseason, but the OL looks frighteningly bad. All this means is that the QB’s and the RB’s had better prepare to get crushed and there is very little doubt that one (or more) of them will be lost to season-ending injuries.
Right now, the OL is going to destroy this season.
A crappy OL also did in the 2017 Bengals. They remedied that quickly by trading for Glenn and drafting a C in the first round (Billy Price I think). Conversely, signing Andrew Whitworth helped put the LA Rams into the playoffs in 2017 with much more success for Goff and Gurley.
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3 hours ago, joesixpack said:
Oh, please go **** on another thread, will you?
WWWWHHHHAAAAAAHHHHHH! Joeysixpackie doesn't like the truth intruding on his fantasy that his heros McDermott and Beane are going to conjure up a respectable OL out of thin air just before the season opener.
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3 hours ago, Bangarang said:
What makes him a significant upgrade? Looks like another highly drafted guard who didn’t make it. Looks like he’s about to get cut anyway.
Exactly this. The Bills have an OL filled with guys who have been or should have been backups all their careers no matter where they were drafted. The Bills need at least a couple of guys who are good enough to be starters on most teams in the league, and Chance Warmack ain't one.
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Chance Warmack is a career backup. The Bills already have an OL full of backup quality players. Pass ... even for the seventh rounder the article author suggested Philly would take.
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The sky isn't falling because it already fell ... when Eric Wood was forced into retirement by injury and the team was just fine with Richie Incognito retiring, too. Then, in FA, they let Seantrel Henderson leave before they traded away proven LT Cordy Glenn. Whatever could have been done to address the OL should have been done months ago in FA and the draft, but as numerous posters have noted, McDermott and Beane chose to go with bottom feeder FAs and a single, later round prospect in the draft.
There are virtually never starter caliber OLers available at the end of preseason. A team might pick up a young OL prospect who can't make another team's final 53 but teams generally don't sacrifice starting OLers because of the cap so late in the game. Quality OLers are just too valuable because a team without a decent OL is totally stymied on offense no matter what other stars a team may have on offense. Most teams GMs/HCs understand this but apparently it's a lesson that McDermott and Beane still have to learn.
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5 hours ago, John from Riverside said:
At least you provided names to discuss......
The answer is pretty simple.....they are biulding the Carolina defense and needed a LB that can scrape sideline to sideline and cover Tight Ends......and Edmunds was a player that was not supposed to last as long as he did with his college production, freakish size and freakish speed.....you NEED these kinds of playmakers and the fact that Edmunds is coming along slower then we would like......Edmunds is getting better by the game to me and we are gonna be thankful by mid season that we have him......to wait until the 2nd or 3rd round for that player (that you need to start immediately...who on the team is gonna start at that position?) is to take a chance and get Preston Brown at best who DOESNT fit their defensive scheme.
People dont like to hear this....but the fact is the team is not complete......losing Woods and Cog DID hurt us and the team is gonna have to regroup and find its identity...I still believe Groy is a excellent center...and it is hard to look good when the players playing beside you are on roller skates the whole game.
McD will figure it out.....
I have never been an advocate of trading up in the draft because too many prospects, even high first rounders, bust or suffer career altering/ending injuries early in their careers to make it a sound draft strategy except for a very exceptional prospect, which would usually be a consensus #1 pick in the draft. IMO, Beane spent draft picks like the proverbial drunken sailor.
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8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:
The Bills have a talent problem across the board.
True. It's one of the reasons why I have likened McDermott to Jauron: he believed that talent wasn't particularly important and that "work ethic" could compensate for its lack. McDermott seems to be of that same opinion. He's a much better coach than Jauron, but I don't like his influence in selecting personnel any more than I liked Jauron's.
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1 minute ago, MJS said:
We made the playoffs. Can't argue with results.
Cherish the memory of the playoffs, dude, because you're not likely to have any new ones in the near future. Contrary to some fans' fantasies, 2019 doesn't look the year the Bills "put it all together" and dominate the AFCE ... or even 2020.
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6 minutes ago, PIZ said:
Is it the players or the OL coaching/scheme?
There is a serious talent issue. Except for Dawkins, Miller, and Teller, all the others have been around awhile, and the book on them is that they're not very good. Most are JAGs at best, but mostly career backups. The Bills have the lowest OL payroll in the NFL, and with the OL, you usually get what you pay for. Dawkins is a sophomore who played next to Incognito as a rookie. Miller was decent as a rookie (2016) but lost his starting job in 2017, and Teller is a rookie taken at the end of the fifth round.
I'm not sure if better coaching would help but Castillo wasn't particularly good last season with more talent.
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52 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:
What OL were available in those rounds that you wanted? Taron Johnson is in line to start in the dime defense.
How about instead of trading up to 16 to take Edmunds, the Bills stay at #22 or #23 and take Isaiah Wynn, G, and use that extra pick on a LB prospect? If they traded up to 16, they could have taken Frank Ragnow or Billy Price (both centers). Maybe they could have gambled and wound up still getting Edmunds at #22 or #23 and used that extra pick on an OLer.
Edmunds simply isn't that outstanding a prospect to merit trading up when the Bills had already given up so much to get Allen, and had so many needs on both sides of the ball. I thought that the Bills gave up too much to be sure that they got Allen, but the Edmunds pick really pee'd me off. IMO, it's going to haunt the Bills for years to come. A team can't win many games without a decent OL because even Brady can't throw TDs when he's on his back.
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20 minutes ago, wiskibreth said:
We are in really big trouble if that OL situation isn't addressed. I don't think I've ever seen pass protection that bad at the professional level; that is if you can even call what we saw today "professional".
You cannot start Allen with pass protection that bad. By default you have to start someone else. He doesn't have the the experience to even begin to deal with that. All you;re going to do is get him hurt, and probably ruin his confidence. Red shirt him this year.
I have. The Bills OL back in 2008 and 2009 under Dick Jauron was about as bad at pass pro, and it couldn't run block at all. Whatever yards Marshawn Lynch and Fred Jackson got in those years came from them without any "help" from their OL.
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0-8 won't surprise me ... I was thinking that was possible even before today.
1-7 seems most likely ... I think the Colts are most likely win ... any team with a good DL, the Bills QBs will be proverbial sitting ducks unless something changes drastically.
2-6 would surprise me ... I just can't see a scenario where the Bills get that lucky unless maybe their opponents wind up with half their team suffering from the flu on game day.
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1 hour ago, October 1918 said:
To point out the obvious, the interior of the O-line can't pass block at all. None of them. We can probably get by with Miller, but we're in big trouble at Center (they both suck) and left guard (ideally, we need Teller to win the job).
Between 2015-2017, the Bills generally had some good pieces to shore up the clunkers on the OL, namely Wood, Incognito, and Glenn. That's how most NFL teams operate: better OLers help the lesser OLers play better. The Bills problem is that they don't have ANY good OLers except perhaps Dion Dawkins, whose play has probably declined somewhat since he's no longer got Pro Bowler Richie Incognito playing inside him.
36 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:Beane was not here for the 2017 draft. Repeat, Beane was not here yet when they took Zay. This is a recording..........
McDermott was, however. Essentially, Whaley was a subservient to both Ryan and McDermott, especially in the draft. Just as Ryan dictated to Whaley, so McDermott dictated to Whaley. Maybe Beane is subservient to McDermott or maybe they're on the same wavelength. Obviously, the current Bills regime, however it's structured, doesn't care much, if at all, about the offensive side of the ball.
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1 minute ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:
Ageeed. I seriously question this regimes ability to assess offensive talent.
Does this regime lack the ability to assess offense talent or does it not value offense, so it puts offense at the very bottom of its priorities? Drafting a first round QB to placate the fan base but not providing him with protection (OL) or targets (WRs) -- a prescription for practically guaranteeing said first round QB to fail -- would fit with either scenario.
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1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said:
C’mon, this team was almost devoid of talent when they showed up. Rex was a terrible disaster and they needed to purge some turds like Dareus.
Last year's team was NOT "almost devoid of talent" when McDermott was hired. The Bills had an offense that was about average under Rex Ryan. Their defense wasn't all that good, but it certainly contained several talented individuals that McDermott and Beane sent packing one way or another. Most of the players from the 2016 team who walked as free agents or were traded went on to have at least some success with their new teams, including Stephon Gilmore, Robert Woods, Marquise Goodwin, Sammy Watkins, and Ronald Darby, all of whom were key players on 2017 playoff teams.
Lie to yourself if it makes you feel better, but don't try to peddle your bull manure as the truth here.
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23 minutes ago, Yeezus said:
Allen isn't the problem. the problem is the GM of this football team has ignored multiple position of needs for 2 offseasons now, traded away our best young players and failed to replace them.
How dare you criticize the McDermott/Beane regime! After breaking the playoff drought, they deserve to be properly worshipped for at least the next 5 years. You can't blame them for players who aren't interested in blocking or tackling in a preseason game. Probably Allen isn't ready to start yet anyways. Once the coaches get the OL to gel, and they start game planning, both the offense and defense will improve immensely. You have to believe in the process!
//sarcasm off
Big time QBs who didn't start out of the gate vs. ones who did
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted · Edited by SoTier
Allen wasn't the problem at all yesterday. He's got a ways to go, but he certainly looks better than Manuel did at this point (Losman broke his leg in TC and didn't play until a few plays very late in the season). He has a lot of poise under pressure but he also has a lot more of the fundamentals he needs to learn, too. It certainly wouldn't hurt him to be the backup QB at least for a while, perhaps even the entire season, while he worked on improving his skills.
My main worry in starting him is that it's likely any QB who starts in the regular season is going to get steam-rolled pretty regularly. I would hate for Allen to suffer a season ending injury in a meaningless game and be stuck on crutches so he couldn't work on his footwork, mechanics, etc which are things that need to be practiced almost incessantly until they become ingrained -- or worse, develop/redevelop bad habits while trying to escape pass rushers.
As others have said, it's easy to go from Peterman or McCarron to Allen. It's not that easy to go from Allen to Peterman or McCarron. It says that "the QB of the future" can't win football games or is the reason the team isn't winning football games.