BillsFan4

It doesn't seem to me like McDermott is calling the shots. Beane said he didn't even tell him about the Sammy trade until the night before it happened. Then they all discussed it - Pegula, McDermott and Beane and came to a conclusion. That sounds to me like a group effort, which is what they've said all along. They hadn't traded Sammy yet when they signed Holmes though, and they could still end up cutting him and the others for the 3rd round comp pick. I still think that's a likely scenario that they cut 3 of those 4 players for the comp pick. Especially if they're able to fill those holes when rosters are cut down to 53. Again though, it's not just Holmes they need to cut. So it's not him alone that costs them a comp pick. It's 3 of these 4 players - Ducasse, Holmes, DiMarco (or Ryan Davis, I've seen both listed), and Stephen Hauschka. Also, I'm not sure I'd say it makes no sense to sign needed players to fill out your roster, instead of getting a 3rd round comp pick a year from now (which is really a 4th round pick, since it is given after the 3rd round is over).

Or you could look at it like this - We traded #8 + 2015 1st + 4th round picks for Sammy. So, 3 picks for 1 pick. Any way you spin it, we gave up 2 1st round picks and a 4th round pick for Sammy. 3 players for 1 player.

I mean, I can see some similarity in some of the comments but I don't remember reading anyone saying he was their favorite teammate, or that he pushed them to be better than what they were, or challenged them to be a man of god or "words can't describe the impact you've had on my life". Every single guy commented on Matthews character. The Bills comments were more about being shocked about Sammy being traded, and a couple said they were sad to lose a friend. Zay Jones did say some nice things about Sammy being helpful. So yeah, similar in some regards, but different.

I don't really get where this is coming from. They won't ever have to pay out big contracts? How can you conclude that? Doug Whaley was the GM when Gilmore left in free agency, and when Gillislee left on that offer sheet. Before you blame McDermott, Whaley had 2 years to get Gilmore signed and he didn't. There were reports before McDermott was even hired that Whaley wasn't willing to give Gilmore more than $11.5M. Supposedly that was their best/highest offer. Yeah, they traded Sammy. But that was 1 player, and we have no idea what the exact reasons for the trade were. Even if it was contract related in some part, I am sure there were other reasons behind it too. To conclude that they think they won't ever have to pay out big contracts seems like a,pretty big leap in logic IMO. Always looking for low ball offers? Where does that come from? Jeremy Maclin chose Baltimore over Buffalo and it had nothing to do with money. There was a report that the Bills actually tried to up their offer to above what Baltimore offered just to try one last time to get Maclin to sign here. He chose Baltimore because of (his words) Joe Flacco, because they won a Super Bowl recently and he felt they were close, and because his wife is from Baltimore and has family there. And Boldin signed here. Beane said it was never about the money. They knew where the money needed to be and had agreed on it. It was Boldin deciding if this was a good fit for him and his family. So I don't get the "always looking for low ball offers" comment. There doesn't really seem to be much to back that up. They did say that they aren't going to overpay and hand out massive contracts in free agency though, which is a good strategy that many successful GMs employ and different from what you are saying. As for draft picks meaning anything, they absolutely do. Almost all of the best NFL teams have all been built through the draft. That is how you build a true contender. You can't build a team through free agency in the cap era. Whaley had been here since 2010 and was GM since 2013. He had plenty of time to put a winner on the field, but was only able to eek out a winning season 1 time in his entire tenure here, and if Brady + the starters play that last Pats game of 2014 the Bills likely don't have a winning season that year either. He was an above average pro personnel guy and average (at best) to below average at everything else (IMO anyway). The Bills had the lowest number of drafted players on their roster in the entire NFL during Whaley's time here. http://buffalonews.com/2016/12/18/roster-data-shows-bills-gm-doug-whaley-not-building-roster-creating-nfls-biggest-hole/ And they actually retained the least number of their players during his time here too (from 2010) - http://buffalonews.com/2017/04/28/bills-retained-nfls-fewest-draft-picks-since-2010/

I posted this in another thread but this is probably a better place for it. Eagles players reactions to!atthews trade - https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2017/8/11/16135262/carson-wentz-eagles-players-react-jordan-matthews-traded-bills-buffalo-philadelphia-news-twitter

Eagles players reactions to losin Matthews - https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2017/8/11/16135262/carson-wentz-eagles-players-react-jordan-matthews-traded-bills-buffalo-philadelphia-news-twitter They all seem to have a common theme. Here's a couple of my favs - "I've known my dawg J Matt for a little over a year. From day 1 he was genuine & a true friend. I've known people my entire life who haven't challenged me to be a Man of God, & push myself as an athlete, as he has in a year of time. You've helped me prioritize what's important in life! Stay BLESSED family & be GREAT in Buffalo!!✊ #BigDogOutTheGate" Torrey Smith - I've only been around @jmattjmattjmatt for a few months but he is easily one of my favorite teammates ever. Good luck bro! God has you! And Wentz - Crazy part of this business. @jmattjmattjmatt you'll always be my boy both on & off the field. Couldn't ask for a better teammate & frien

I disagree. I'd guess they kept Tyrod because he's been the best QB the Bills have had in like 2 decades, has only started 2 seasons in the NFL, showed quite a bit of promise in those 2 seasons and is the hardest working player in the entire building. With the 2 seasons he's out together for the Bills, I'd say he deserves a shot at season 3. They are hoping he takes a nice step forward. With how hard it is to find decent QBs in the NFL, it seems like a very smart move to me not just throwing TT away and hoping that with good coaching he can improve. Plus, Dennison wanted to work with him and has had a pretty good history with getting good play from his QBs. McDermott most likely would not have been able to put together the coaching staff he did if the Bills were just tanking the season. McDermott put together a top of the line coaching staff IMO. I think we have many very good position coaches, the line coaches (Waufle and Castillo) being among the very best in the NFL. Also, how do you go about building a new culture and actually getting players to buy in, if they came in and tanked their first season? I would think that'd be a damn hard sell for pretty much any player on the team. They are trying to establish the foundation this season of a solid culture (not filled with constant losing) to develop to their plethora of upcoming draft picks in as well as their current picks on the roster. While at the same time acquiring solid draft capital for players they felt no longer fit the new regime. They've amassed a solid haul of draft picks without having to totally tank like Cleveland or the Jets. It's actually not a bad plan at all IMO. You don't need top 3 draft picks to build an NFL team. Game changers can be found all through out the draft, especially the first few rounds. It's not the NHL where you truly need a top,pick to get a franchise talent. Some player reactions - https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2017/8/11/16135262/carson-wentz-eagles-players-react-jordan-matthews-traded-bills-buffalo-philadelphia-news-twitter I especially liked this one - "I've known my dawg J Matt for a little over a year. From day 1 he was genuine & a true friend. I've known people my entire life who haven't challenged me to be a Man of God, & push myself as an athlete, as he has in a year of time. You've helped me prioritize what's important in life! Stay BLESSED family & be GREAT in Buffalo!!✊ #BigDogOutTheGate" You can really see the type of players this new regime is focusing on. They really seem to put an emphasis on true team first character guys. It's actually very intriguing. I'm pretty excited to see how this works out. I have high hopes.

I can see why people don't like the Sammy trade and the value the Bills for back... But the trade, the value seems pretty damn good to me. We got Jordan Matthews, who has been the NFL's most productive slot receiver in his 3 years in the league. Plus we got a 3rd round pick back, that should likely be in the top 1/2'of the round. Darby was a #51 overall pick himself (I know that doesn't matter now). That 3rd could be around +/- 75 (ish). So you get a pick back 25?spots later than where Darby was drafted, PLUS the most productive slot receiver in the NFL - a very likely 1st round pick if he had entered the draft a year sooner instead of entering in one of the deepest WR drafts (if not the deepest) in NFL history - for a guy the coaching staff seemed to feel didn't fit the new defensive scheme as well, and they could have possibly even ended up cutting down the road (especially if he didn't rebound from his 2016 season). We don't know what Darby is yet, either. He's played 2 years in the league. 1 year was very good, the other year was pretty ugly. So he's been good for 1/2 his career and not so good for 1/2 his career so far. I do expect him to rebound under Schwartz, but what if 2016 Darby ends up being who he really is? Then this trade looks even better. McDermott has done a great job with his secondary so far in his career. It's something he's known for. Even last year when he lost a top 3 CB (5th round pick Josh Norman who McD basically developed into the player that he is today), has other injures and was forced to start 2 later round rookie CB's, he had them playing damn good football by the 2nd half of the year. He's had pretty damn good secondary for most of his career. If McDermott feels that Darby is more suited to man coverage and is struggling in zone (more thinking involved in zone for CB's, may not be Darby's strong suit) as some in the media have been saying, then it was very smart to move on now, before his value possibly dropped, and get something significant for a player that was drafted for the previous coaches completely opposite defensive scheme.

Spotrac shows the Bills with an estimated $26M in cap space for 2018 - http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/2018/ Sammy just recently said that NFL players don't get paid enough and he think that him and his fellow 2014 receiver class will change all that. That doesn't sound like someone that's going to sign a deal with a reasonable cap hit. That sounds like a guy looking to set a new record high for WR pay to me. So, let's assume that we tag him then. What the franchise tag for WR looking like in 2018? Roughly $17M or so? So that leaves $9M in cap space, with more than just the QB position to fill out, roster wise. I don't see how they'd even have a chance at signing Cousins (but to be clear, I don't think they will try and break the bank to sing him anyway), let alone fill,out the rest of the roster. That's assuming that they add no other free agents to try and help the team. You only get a comp pick for Sammy if you lose more players to FA than you sign. So you'd possibly have to fore-go trying to improve the team in order to ensure you get that 3rd round comp pick. And a 3rd round comp pick comes after the 3rd round is over, so it's really more/less a 4th rounder. The 2nd we got for Sammy could be in the top 5 of the 2nd round. I'm not saying that Sammy wasn't worth more than that, because I think he was. But getting what could be a high 2nd is a lot better compensation that a comp 3rd (aka a 4th) if they didn't have intentions of re-signing Sammy.

Is he for real JoeToronto?

Wasn't ducasse (and the other players that formulate into the comp pick) signed before Beane and his front office staff were even hired? doesn't seem fair to blame them. And it wasn't just signing him that loses a 3rd comp pick. It's a combination of Ducasse, Holmes, Hauschka and Ryan Davis. They have to cut 3 of those 4 to get the comp 3rd IIRC. I fully expect at least 2 of the 4 to be cut. I don't think Hauschka will be, and Holmes is a toss up. If they can

Honestly, I was really only referring to the risk in trading up for a QB. I've seen it talked about a whole lot ever since we acquired that extra Chiefs 1st, and while I'm not opposed to it, trading up to the top of a draft for a QB is definitely a huge risk that has rarely ever worked out for the team trading up. I 100% agree that the Cornelius Bennett trade was an amazing one for the Bills. He instantly put that defense over the top, and I'd make that trade again 10 times out of 10. I still love that move to this day. One of the best the Bills made IMO. But that Bills team was in a much different position. That defense was actually one player away from being great. Unfortunately, the Bills weren't (and still aren't) one Sammy Watkins away from being great.

Yeah I don't see them selling their future to move up and draft a QB. Maybe they're willing to give up that extra Chief's 1st to move up. But I'd be surprised if they traded away a whole draft for 1 player. I think they know the Bills need to be built from the ground up through the draft. Although, who knows. That Watkins trade took some big balls, and Beane has said he knows the importance of having a franchise QB & how it's a QB driven league. So if he feels very confident about a certain QB maybe he's willing to go all in for him? It's kind of hard to predict what these new guys are going to do, as they haven't been on the job long enough yet for us to really know their tendencies. All I know for sure is that they value character and a team first mentality. That is very clear to see in the players they've drafted/acquired.

Did you stop watching the Bills all the games Sammy has been injured and not on the field? I didn't. The Bills are and always will be my team, and I will watch them because I am a die hard BUFFALO BILLS fan, not just a Sammy Watkins fan. I like the team, not just 1 player on it.

Same here. I thought Mahomes did some good things but I wasn't even close to being blown away or anything. Nothing that made me say "oh I hate that we traded down instead of drafting him". It was only 1 preseason game (against a weak opponent) though. It'll be years before we know what Mahomes really is.

I could care less if Sammy makes a pro bowl. I care about the Bills winning. If Sammy re-signs in LA and helps them to have much more success over the course of his career than what Beane/McDermott & the Bills are able to accomplish, then maybe I'll care. But if the Bills ultimately build a successful team under Beane and McDermott, it won't matter to me if Sammy is a perennial all pro. I wish the kid success, anyway. I just wish the Bills more success. lol

Sure, a top pick would be nice to take a QB. But you don't absolutely need one to find a franchise guy. Just looking st current NFL starting QB's - Joe Flacco - taken 18th overall Derek Carr - 2nd round Aaron Rodgers - 24th overall Ben Roethlisberger - 11th overall Tom Brady - 6th round Drew Brees - 2nd round Russel Wilson - 3rd round Kirk Cousins - 4th round Dark Prescott - 4th round Andy Dalton - 2nd round Tiny Romo - undrafted (and now retired) Then you have guys who were taken top 3 that haven't done squat - Blake Bortles, Sam Bradford, RGIII, even guys like Matt Stafford (who is definitely a franchise QB and I would take in a heart beat) haven't won a thing and Alex Smith although a franchise guy is pretty underwhelming for a 1st overall. I could go even further and say what real success has a guy like Carson Palmer had (taken 1st overall)? He said played in what, 3 or 4 playoff games in his entire career, with 1 win (IIRC)? I mean even Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Philip Rivers, Cam Newton (who are all absolutely franchise QBs and who I would LOVE to have) haven't really won anything. I would take any one of them in a heart beat though! lol Then guys like Goff and Wentz it's too soon to tell, although Goff looked terrible his first season, and Wentz didn't look very good outside the first 3-4 games. But it's way too soon to call on them. Same goes for Mariota and Winston, although both look to be on their way to success. Now, don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I would absolutely love love love to have one of those elite top of the draft QBs. But it's no guarantee that the Bills win anything is all i'm saying, and also that you can find a legit franchise QB to win a Super Bowl with outside the top 3-5 of the draft. Not all our hopes for the future hang on a top 3 QB pick. Even when you have a top 3-5 pick, it's more about being lucky enough to get that top pick in the right QB draft year, and then pick the right QB in that draft. Not too often are there sure thing QBs these days. College QBs are more of a crap,shoot now than they've probably ever been.

Yes, I believe they said there are 53 new players on the team this year (that's why I get a kick out of these people that say they need to at least match Rex's record since they kept Tyrod). The turnover has been pretty extreme. But part of that was the way Whaley had the team set up going into free agency. They had a crazy amount of free agents, and with a new staff coming in, it was set up perfectly to see a lot of turn over. I am think that this regime is safe for at least a few years, if not their whole 5 year contract. I don't think a Pegula expects this to be a 1-2 year process. He seems very sold on McDermott, and I don't think McDermott sold him on instant success. He sold him on long term success, and that takes time. Like !cDermott said, when you change coaches and GMs it means that the organization is "sick", and it's going to take years to cure 17 years of sickness...

https://mobile.twitter.com/NFL/status/896250320983957505/video/1 Every throw from Mahomes debut. I thought he looked ok from what I seen. Nothing that blew me away though. And this is against a pretty mediocre (at best) San Francisco team, that doesn't have much depth among their starters, let along their 2's and 3's. I think he has a good shot at turning out ok in Kansas City because he's with a great coach who knows how to develop players and is surrounded by a deep, skilled team. But he's still far from a sure thing, though. Every throw from: Watson - https://mobile.twitter.com/NFL/status/895514771742576640 Kizer - https://mobile.twitter.com/NFL/status/895866080358350848 Trubisky - (now he impressed me) https://mobile.twitter.com/NFL/status/895880960708714496

It's not even just the Bills - trade ups for QBs (especially to the top of the draft) have rarely ever worked out for the team trading up. Eli Manning. But I don't really think that one counts, as Eli absolutely DEMANDED a trade. He was going to suit o,saying football and go into law (IIRC) if he was not traded. And even then the trade may not have happened if the NYG didn't have Philip Rivers going back the other way to SD. So that was the rarest of rare circumstances surrounding that trade. The only other trade up (to the top of the draft) for a QB I can think of that more/less worked out is Michael Vick way back in 2001, and that was before mobile QBs were as nearly popular as they are today. Vick really took mobile QBs to a different level. The trade up for Joe Flacco has worked out, but that was only trading up to pick #18. I know you weren't just referring to trade up's for QBs, though. Edit - I guess one (or more) of Goff/Wentz/Mahomes/Watson could work out. We will have to wait and see I guess.

Comparing Sammy to Eichel just isn't comparing apples to apples IMO. Hockey is a completely different sport than football. Eichel plays the equivalent position (franchise center) to a franchise QB in football. Sammy is like an elite winger in hockey - they're great to have but don't necessarily win you championships. They can help, but you can win it without them. You need an elite franchise #1 center and an elite #1 defenseman in hockey. I don't think you need an elite WR to win a Lombardi in football. Especially when you don't yet have a QB who has proven he can get that elite WR the ball... sure they help. But they're nowhere near as important a position as a franchise #1 C in hockey. The draft is completely different in hockey, too. You need to have a top 2-3 pick to get game changing difference maker type players on the level of Eichel. Amazing players rarely fall in the NHL draft. Where as in the NFL great players are found through the first 1-2 (even 3) rounds every year. You don't need a top 3 pick to find this edifference makers. Now I get Sammy is a rare talent. Trading him away sucks. But it's still not comparable to what Eichel means to the Sabres IMO. You are talking about a 19yr old who has already shown to be a top 10 player in the NHL. While Sammy has that potential he has not yet shown it, and it doesn't help that he doesn't have the QB to help him along with that. Eichel doesn't need a QB to show it, though. He can do it on his own, and there lies another difference between the two sports. Oh, and the fans had absolutely nothing to do with Sammy getting traded. We didn't run him out of town. Management decided to move on.

I don't think they are done making moves by any means. I would be shocked if they didn't try to add players as rosters are cut to 53. I wouldn't even be surprised if we seen more trades. But I definitely expect players to be added to this roster. I'm really not all that worried about finding a speedy receiver though. Getting a "burner" to run some go routes shouldn't be all that tough to find, IMO, if that's something they decide they need. I'm not sure how often Dennison's offense relies on plays like that to need a burner type. Zay Jones did alright as a deep threat in college. Maybe he can fill that role? Now if you're talking about an all around good WR that can also be a deep threat, that'll be harder to find. I'm expecting more of a run & short pass w/YAC eat up the clock possession style offense though. If that's the case, then I think they have bigger, more pressing needs than a speedy WR (like defensive secondary!)

Beane answered this question directly. He said it has nothing to do with his players vs Whaley' players, said he has no problem keeping players if they buy in to what they're trying to do. They also seem to like a specific type of personality, and I'm not sure that was Sammy. If you look at the guys they've brought in, they are really 100% team first guys. Said they're willing to do whatever the team needs. It isn't about them or their stats and targets, it's only about winning. They're all about doing whatever the team needs them to do to win. We will see in time if their approach is right. But we won't know for at least a few years, and we have no control over any of this stuff. So you may as well sit back and try to enjoy the ride...

http://www.panthers.com/news/article-2/Examining-why-Panthers-parted-ways-with-Dave-Gettleman/6b8b96da-b6ed-4814-8ca2-29bf7542aa17 This is right from CarolinaPanthers.com - "Of course, none of those reasons fully explain Monday’s decision, and they don't answer why a change was made now. One presumable significant crack in the foundation began two months ago. When Brandon Beane left for Buffalo, Gettleman lost a key member of his team who had performed many day-to-day functions of a GM, a role that allowed Gettleman to focus on roster building. In many ways, the fallout appeared similar to some of the stories that came out of Kansas City after the Chiefs parted with GM John Dorsey." They were also saying that Beane was kind of a buffer for a not so personable and very crass Dave Gettleman. Beane was loved by everyone in the building, from ownership all the way down to the players in the locker room. Had he not left for Buffalo, Gettleman may not have been fired. And there is absolutely zero reason to think that Beane would have been fired also. Everyone who covers the Panthers has said that he would have been named the GM if he were still there. Everyone, including Beane, knew he was the next Carolina GM in waiting. The owner absolutely loved him I guess. They had been grooming him for like 20 years. When they fired Marty Hurney Beane was named interim GM and when they hired Gettleman the owner made a point of keeping Beane around, giving him a promotion to ensure he stayed.

That's not at all what I said or meant. Not even close. Not sure how you read everything I wrote and got that out of it. And I don't see trying to look at things rationally as pathetic. Whining and crying all over the message board on the other hand...