[Beane not indicating Josh Allen will definitely redshirt]

That’s a very nice and safe way to keep the possibility open.

[RD 1, Pick 16: Tremaine Edmunds OLB - Virginia Tech]

10 hours ago, Rise Up Lights said:

Is it possible he isn't done growing? Another inch or two and he'd be almost 6'7. I have never seen an ILB that tall. Not sure if that'd effect the way he'd be able to shed blocks or anything like that. He'd be like Groot on passing downs though, in the middle of that cover 2.

Ted Hendricks Baltimore Colts was a 6’7” beast. I think he’s in the HOF

[Chris Simms: "Cardinals were heart broken when Josh Allen went before they could trade up"]

28 minutes ago, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

 

Of the 4 QB's, Allen is the most likely to bust.

Nope.  That would be Mayfield.

[Who Makes Your Priority UDFA List?]

Zaire Franklin, LB Syracuse. He is a tackling machine. A heat seeking missile type approach to the game. Also, for three years starting with his sophomore year, he was a team captain and called the defensive plays. As they say, a high football IQ. I hope the bills take a look at him.

[Has size always mattered?]

1 hour ago, Another Fan said:

Take your mind out of the gutter there for a minute....  I meant to the front office when it comes to quarterbacks.

 

It seemed the powers that be liked Allen as did the commenters on NFL network because he's big and strong and could throw in the Buffalo winters.  Using this logic we skipped on Russell Wilson.  

 

Dont get me wrong hoping and rooting for Allen to succeed and aren't putting down the pick.  However, they had their faults but arguably Flutie and Tyrod were the best 2 QBs since Jimbo

 

 

Yes, size has always “matterd“It’s not the only thing that matters, but all things being equal, in this sport it’s better to be bigger than smaller. 

 

Are you kidding with the second part of your post? F are you kidding with the second part of your post? Flutie was overrated  and Taylor was completely horrific. Taylor, as an NFL quarterback, is a coward, a loser and a choker. 

[RD 5, Pick 154: Siran Neal S - Jacksonville state]

22 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Many say BPA, but I don't see this front office working by that mantra. Rather, they take players they like at positions they want to address . Different MO altogether. 

 Except, your BPA list is probably different from than the Bills’

[Gil Brant on Sirius yesterday - awful]

6 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Have you considered you may just be better to let things roll off your back a little more?  Microaggressions, trigger warnings, all of that is just too much.  Gil Brandt is Gil Brandt. If you don't want to hear him change the channel.  

Seriously. You would think that Gil has a six decade history of racially insensitive behaviors.

[A Different Josh Allen Perspective For People Who Actually Care About Reality]

Just read the OP for the first time. Well done! Terrific logical, reasoned and well thought out point by point defense of Allen’s strengths and areas that need improvement!  I’m looking forward to watching him develop.

[Nightmare scenario: Josh Allen?]

2 minutes ago, zevo said:

It has exceeded my expectations....lol

I wonder if any of them are going to be done with this team.

[Chris Simms: "Cardinals were heart broken when Josh Allen went before they could trade up"]

7 minutes ago, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

 

I know right?  Because that is what wins SuperBowls!

 Just one small piece of a very talented pie. You and some others seem to think that Rosen is a slam dunk HOFer.   His flaws are well known and documented. Sounds like even the Cardinals wanted Allen but had to settle for a consolation prize. I would have been happy to have Rosen, also. However, we have Allen.His upside is enormous and, as you and I both know, most experts and prognosticators had him as a better prospect.

 

So what are you and the other Allen haters going to do now, root for him to fail?

 

 

[Josh Allen = Drew Bledsoe]

Josh Allen =Josh Allen!  

[RD3, Pick 96: Harrison Phillips DT - Stanford]

 A great combination of a value/need pick!I actually love with the bills did on the first two days of the draft. It’s quality over quantity but that works for me.

[Chris Simms: "Cardinals were heart broken when Josh Allen went before they could trade up"]

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Yes.  Rosen has a slightly higher touchdown to interception ratio though, but it's throws like these that scare me.   Allen trusts his arm strength too much and it's hard to break habits no matter how well coached up he is.  He has so many things he needs to clean up (footwork, decision making, anticipation, pre-snap adjustments) in order to be an effective NFL starter.  That's a lot to ask of a player.  I'm rooting for him, but I'm not holding my breath that he'll pan out.

 

 Most strong armed quarterbacks have had this problem coming into the national football league. This includes Jim Kelly. Their arm is so strong they think they can make any throw at any time. In college you this often worked. Not so in the NFL. Give the kid time. In my opinion, his brain and work ethic are as impressive as his physical skills.

[RD1, Pick 7: Josh Allen QB - Wyoming]

I agree completely. So much upside. Not just his physical traits but his brain! I believe he will develop into a good pocket passer. Thanks for this thread. Way too many chicken little know it all’s out there right now.

[Some Info to Worry Less About Josh Allen's Inaccuracy]

5 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

 

This man is so dense light bends around him

 Of course! The eventual insult when somebody runs out of ammunition in terms of logical argument. OK, genius, tell all of us here how the importance of completion percentage is different now than it was when Kelly was our quarterback. Spell it out. Defend yourself on this point. Consider it a dare!!!

[You vs Mike Mayock]

51 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

There are always QB's with 1st round physical tools and poor football IQ on the field. They get ranked high all the time. They always fail.

 An absolutely false statement here. Whatever else you can say about Allen  his football IQ it’s considered to be quite high from everything I have read about him from multiple sources, yes, including Mayock. 

[Stats are for losers]

7 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Jamarcus Russels was better 

 

 

 This is fundamentally false! Anyone who remembers the Russell fiasco would know this. In a nutshell, he was profoundly lazy. It was made worse by the fact that he was drafted in the days when first round rookie quarterbacks were getting ridiculous contracts. He got paid and did not care anymore. Allen is the anti-Russell! His intelligence and his work ethic are off the charts. This is why, despite wishing they had taken Rosen, I am good with the pick and believe there is a real chance this guy can be good if not great. But, however you feel, in no way, shape or form is he comparable to Russell.

[Some Info to Worry Less About Josh Allen's Inaccuracy]

13 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

 

Football has changed 8 times since then genius. Try to keep up.

Really? So tell me, genius, how do they calculate completion percentage these days? I’m not the one having a problem keeping up here, am I

[Some Info to Worry Less About Josh Allen's Inaccuracy]

21 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

Pulling out stats from the Carter/Reagan administrations and thinking it proves your point <<<<<

Guess what? Completion percentage is calculated in the exact same way it was in the 1980s. Just in case you did not know that.

[The fallacy of Allen being the bigger "risk" than Rosen]

14 minutes ago, Magox said:

I want to preface these series of thoughts with the fact that I was hoping for Rosen over Allen.  With that said one of the common gripes that I am hearing from some of our fans on this board is that Josh Allen is the bigger risk for this franchise than Rosen.   The argument goes something along the lines that Rosen is the best pure passer, the most NFL ready therefore he's close to a sure thing.  Whereas Allen is the big armed QB who is inaccurate similar to EJ Manuel and he's got Bust written all over him.

 

On the surface this argument makes sense.

 

However, there are huge gaping holes with this argument.

 

A) One of the big things that people talked about including lots of whispers from NFL personnel is that Rosen was not a leader of men.  Some questioned his demeanor and whether or not his heart was fully in the game.  I don't know whether or not that stuff is true or not but it was definitely out there.  I will say this, the little that I observed of him I definitely saw a smugness about him.  Does that matter?  I don't know.  But it was certainly palpable and if I saw that after a few interviews then I'm certain that this reputation was observed by many others as well.   The fact that his ex coach Mora could not give him a full-throated endorsement and even picked his in-state rival as being the QB who should be picked first to me screams of a red flag.  Sure, Mora tried backtracking some and equivocating why he said that, but the bottom line is that he didn't feel the urge to gush about the player he coached.   

 

B) His injury concerns.  Will he be a Bradford sort of player?   I think that is a fair question.  He's had a couple concussions and I believe a shoulder injury that kept him out for some time.  He's not the most mobile QB, tends to hold on to the ball too long sometimes because he's a QB that likes to try to make plays but if you are in the NFL and you don't have great protection and you hold on to the ball too long and you are prone to some injuries, it's stands to reason to believe he could be an injury prone QB in this league.   That is a risk.

 

Allen on the other hand is a big hulking QB that can not only shake off arm tackles but he's very mobile and makes amazing throws on the run.  Considering the offensive line we have, this is probably a better fit than Rosen is essentially just a pocket passer.

 

While Allen has his shortcomings primarily in the accuracy department, it is an overblown charge that people make and it is without doubt in many cases an on-the-surface observation primarily to the famed 56% completion rate.   There certainly is some there there.  But a few things you have to keep in mind.  

 

A) This was a down-the-field sort of throwing offense which is more susceptible to producing higher incompletion rates

B)  His offensive line was very weak and he was constantly under duress. 

C) His WR's were very poor and they weren't able to get a lot of separation.

 

His intermediate and long range passing is really good, where he struggles are his short passes.  That is something that will have to be worked on and to me that is more a matter of setting his feet/mechanics and from what I've been reading it is something that he has worked on and improved, as evidenced in the Senior bowl game.  He was the best performing QB that attended this year.

 

The guy is also an anticipation thrower that can hit receivers in small windows.  He's also a very intelligent guy and hard worker and a leader or men.   Where he needs some work on the mental aspect are his progressions which of course is a very important element.  To me, this is his biggest risk into becoming a franchise QB.

 

While they both have their risks, it is a fallacy from my point of view to believe that Allen is the bigger risk considering that Rosen may have troubles leading his teammates and his injury risks.  

 

There is a reason why not only was the whisper campaign in NFL evaluator/GM circles in full effect to "stay away" from Rosen and the fact that teams in need of QB's early on decided to forgo him, not to mention that most mocks had Allen being selected over Rosen.  It's not because he doesn't have the talent, it's because of these other concerns.

 

Rosen could very well end up being the better QB, but the risks are there and they are reasonably undeniable.    Again, this is not so much an argument of who is going to be the better QB it's to address the fallacy that Allen is the bigger risk.

This is a well thought out post and my compliments. However, using reason and clearheaded logic will likely not have much of an impact at least for a few days for the Allen haters.

[Is there a precedent for developing a low-percentage QB?]

25 minutes ago, Irv said:

Everyone needs to chill out.  Jim Kelly's college stats!

 

Year	Team	Games		Passing
		G	Rec	Att	Cmp	Pct	Yds	TD	Int	Rate
1979	Miami	11	5–6–0	104	48	46.2	721	5	6	108.7
1980	Miami	12	9–3–0	206	109	52.9	1,519	11	7	125.7
1981	Miami	11	9–2–0	285	168	58.9	2,403	14	14	136.2
1982	Miami		7–4–0	81	51	63.0	585	3	1	133.4
Career		45	30–15	676	376	55.6	5,228	33	28	128.4

 This data is certainly a poke in the eye of all of the Allen haters!

 

[On Draft NIght, My Better Half...]

My wife is a pretty good sports fan and even will watch college sports with me. She’s a  Syracuse graduate and will watch their basketball and football games with me. She tolerates me watching the bills every Sunday and the Yankees on most days. However ....... she thinks all the ado about the draft is ridiculous and she can barely contain her laughter. Thankfully she is working tonight or she would’ve found out there is actually a red carpet leading up to the draft! I have no plans on telling her about that. She would die laughing!

 

 

[If the Jets get Rosen tonight, Beane failed]

2 minutes ago, T-Bomb said:

 

If I was throwing a tantrum, I doubt I'd be smiling/having fun the whole time.

 

I don't do stuff it if ain't fun, you know like, FaceBook.

 

Aw, welcome.

 In my work as a psychologist I deal with chronically angry people with persistent impulse control problems all the time. It is not unusual at all for them to be smiling and actually enjoy these behaviors. Now I’m not saying you fit that bill. I’m guessing you don’t. However the fact that you claim to be smiling and having fun doesn’t disprove in any way, shape or form that your approach on this thread is tantrum like. 

[If the Jets get Rosen tonight, Beane failed]

45 minutes ago, T-Bomb said:

 

Right, could qualify, but you'd have to see me at my desk typing, to know it it's a tantrum.  You don't have enough empirical data to make the determination.

 

And before anyone says I don't have all the empirical data on whether Rosen will be great, don't be silly, you'd need a time machine for that, just like you would have for Brady.

 

Given the current data, I'm not sure how any FO would not have Rosen #1... 

 The tantrum like nature of your initial posts and subsequent posts are empirical data. Also, there is plenty of empirical data on Rosen available. I’ll be happy if the bills get him. 

 

By the way, I have a PhD in a scientific field and have published research studies in scientifically refereed journals. I know what empirical data is!

[Browns Take Mayfield at #1]

45 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

And his QB Rating was 86, good for 22nd in the NFL.

 

Manning is at the end of the line. They need a long term solution who can push for his job in case he plays poorly again. 

They can get an elite RB in round 2. 

 

Sure. 

 

But how many teams are building around RBs these days?

 

QB >>>> RB 

I’m not debating this at all. All I am saying is that the general consensus is Barkley is the best player in the draft and, while old, the Giants have a franchise quarterback. I don’t know if they will take Barkley or not. I hope they do. My only point is that Barkley is considered quite unique as far as running backs are concerned.