GunnerBill
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Posts posted by GunnerBill
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And I actually dispute that a lot of those guys "looked" better or more comfortable than EJ. RGIII wasn't tearing it up the first half of last season, you might remember the Redskins were 3-5 and then he got on a roll. Nick Foles was so indifferent that the Eagles went back and forth to Vick until injury finally made the decision for them and then Foles started to play pretty well. As for Dalton..... I'm not sure I'd swap EJ for him now given the option and he is in what year 3?
Also how can we know which of those Quarterbacks are going to have a great career?? They're only 3-4 years into their careers. Where are all these Quarterbacks producing right away? Because I think I'm right in saying only one, Joe Flacco, has ever won 2 play-off games in their rookie year. None of these guys younger guys who you think are obviously better than EJ have won a Superbowl yet, a fair number of them have worse rookie year numbers than EJ, although many played on teams with better W-L records. So basically your judgment is just you look at him and don't like what you see, it's got nothing to do with "production".
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I don't think EJ's mechanics are awful. It's massively overstated. Is there room for improvement there? Sure, but even someone like a Matt Stafford who was seen as more of a prototype pocket passer coming out came in with some tidying up needed on his mechanics.
As for "we should pick a Quarterback this year because it's such a great class" I just don't buy it I'm sorry. I don't think Manziel will be a top end starter in this league, I really don't. He isn't all that accurate and Mike Evans bails him out of a lot of bad throws that he just will not get away with in the NFL against better DBs and I'm not convinced I've seen enough from Bridgewater considering the standard of opposition he is playing against. Then there are lots of interesting project guys.... Murray, Boyd, Hundley, Carr, McCarron but none of those have done anything to makie me think they're a slam dunk first round pick that should not be missed.
I actually think we give EJ next year we see where he is at that point and then we have much more to base a judgment on and if he has not shown enough to suggest he is the answer we give up whatever it takes (chances are if EJ's played poorly it won't take as much) to get up the board to take Winston or Mariota both of whom I do think could be slam dunk picks at this stage.
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I would definitely entertain trading down if we end up somewhere around #10 unless because of a rush of Quarterbacks coming off the board Mike Evans is still sitting there. If he isn't then see if we can move back in the first and pick up an extra second rounder like we did last year. Then use our top 4 (including the extra 2nd) picks on linebacker, tight end, and a couple of o-linemen unless there is a physical wide receiver there in the second round who we think could make it (is Benjamin from FSU expected to declare? If so where is he being slated to go at the moment?) Basically I'd take a receiver if someone falls to us as the BPA when we are on the clock, but I wouldn't be reaching for a guy as I still think the other positions mentioned above are bigger needs.
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And hasn't Mariota said he is staying in College next year anyway?
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For anyone to claim that they can close the book on Marrone after 14 games of his first season, 10 of which were started with a rookie Quarterback and the other 4 of which were started by back-ups (one of whom was a rookie UDFA) is simply ridiculous. The persistent accusations that anyone seeing any hope is an apologist for the franchise or is not being a realist are equally stupid. Belichick, Coughlin, Mike McCarthy to name just three recent examples all won Superbowls with their teams and yet none had a winning record in their first season. I'm not saying Marrone will be as good as any of those guys... I just can't say yet that he won't.
The argument that he won't because Gailey wasn't and Jauron wasn't and Williams wasn't is a pathetic and tiresome one.
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I am getting sick of the projects. Let the Bills take the big brand name for once.
Tim Tebow is a big brand name. He can't play Quarterback though. The QB with the "brand name" in the draft was Geno Smith... and I'm yet to see any evidence he can play either.
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Thad lewis started the bengals game.
Of course he did. My bad. Been a long week already...
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And the other defeat being in overtime to the Bengals who ain't half bad themselves... and that was largely because of busted punt coverage.
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I actually used to think like that but it's just not logical. What if the next guy you drafts struggles, as all rookies do? You just draft another one? At what point do you stop and say maybe we should give a guy more than a year to prove himself?
San Diego got nothing for Brees. Now, you couldn't trade Brees for 3 1st rounders. Rivers is a pretty good QB and that's eased the blow a little bit. But how many SD fans wish they would have been a little more patient with Brees right now?
P.S. In no way am I comparing EJ to Brees. But in Brees' first year as a starter (his 2nd year in the NFL), he threw 17 tds and 16 Ints.
Correct. I made the point in another thread that you'd have been hard pushed to say after Peyton Manning's rookie year that he WAS the guy in Indi. They went 3-13 and he threw 28 INTs... if you draft another Quarterback in round 1 the next year you maybe end up with a competition that takes development time away from both guys and you fail to put a key piece of the puzzle in place.... the Colts got their running back for the next 6-7 years in round 1 the year after they drafted Peyton and then traded Marshall Faulk away for more picks that went on solid guys who contrivuted. If you just keep drafting Quarterbacks in Round 1 then hoping that they look like Franchise guys in year 1 it will be a never ending cycle.
Although EJ was bad on Sunday, no doubt about that.
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In years past I always wanted the Bills to lose for better draft positioning. Not this year. It's all about learning how to win now. Our talent level is finally at the point where we can actually draft best player available. It doesn't matter where you draft when you draft that way, because there's great talent all throughout the draft.
100% agree.
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8-8 is not a winning season.
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The top two ain't going to go on forever though are they..... and how many years have San Diego missed the play-offs now regardless of Rivers? I also think the gap between Smith and Dalton and the guys 9/10/11 isn't that great (a year ago you'd have had Schaub in that company for example). But I agree with your general premise which is, I think, that there might be the odd year where a team comes from nowhere with a bottom half of the conference Quarterback, but in general to be a consistent play-off calibre team you need a top half of the conference guy.
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Losers lose.
This franchise is a loser franchise.
We as fans sit there and expect to blow it. You do not think the players think the same way?
A lot of truth to that. That's why "culture change" that every staff that comes in talks about is so hard. It even permeates into the calls officials make too. Teams that consistently lose have more calls go against them because even officials expect them to blow it. It's sub concious.
It's extremely hard. I'm a semi-professional soccer coach in England and 6 years ago I took over as the Coach of a team that had finished in the bottom 4 of an 18 team league 8 out of 9 years. It took me 18 months to change the psyche from "being competitive is enough" to "only winning is enough." The first season I had there we finished 12th out of 18 and people around the league kept saying to me how pleased I must have been and were shocked when I told them how disappointed I was. It's internal perceptions, external perceptions... it's everything. I had the luxury of being able to gradually change pretty much the whole squad in 18 months, which is not a luxury most NFL staffs have.
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I think the question with those close games is can they learn from it this year. I kinda feel we should have beaten KC, New England, Atlanta, Cleveland but on the flip side I think we got a bit lucky in Miami. It's worth saying that last year Carolina lost a lot of very tight football games... and repeated it the first two weeks of this season.... but then it clicked and they have won a number of close ones in this winning stretch. That's the test for us. If we still keep finding ways to lose the close ones next year then you have to question why the coaching staff hasn't been able to improve the consistency of our execution.
One of the things that has grown on me about Marrone is that he rarely says "we have to do a better job." He normally says "I have to do a better job." I like that. I get the sense that he really understands that ultimately it's on him to ensure that we start finding ways to win not ways to lose.
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I agree on the 2014 QB class. I don't actually think it's that much better than the 2013 class. Now that Mariota is staying in school there is no Quarterback there that I think is genuinely worthy of a top 10 pick. I'm not saying one won't go in the top 10.... I think Bridgewater will go top 10 and might go #1 to Houston and I think Manziel will go top 10... because someone will think he is worth the risk... but I don't. Nowhere near.
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My whole point is perspective. Personally, as long as guy isn't a complete scumbag, I'll root for him since I'm a Bills fan first. I think Manuel is a very easy guy to like and the world would be a better place if more people carried themselves like him. But if it sucks, then he needs to be replaced. This whole thread is to show that overreacting after 8 games, either way, is sort of nuts.
I know this sounds crazy but I compare this to the President. I obviously wanted a certain guy to win. However, if my guy doesn't win, I'm still rooting for the guy who won to succeed because I'm an American first of all and want the best for this country. There are those people (and they tend to be the loudest voices) who wish for someone to fail so they can be right. I find this attitude to be pathetic. For example, I think Jeff Tuel isn't a very good QB and I've stated such (basically, I can't really point to him ever being successful as a starting QB going back to college). However, I rooted for him like crazy to beat the Chiefs and wanted to be proven wrong. Far too often, it is more important to be right on this board.
And I agree with you. Except about the President.... cos hey he ain't the boss of me.... although I'll swap you our current Prime Minister for your current President if you like?
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Clearly worse than the Bears? Really? I've never got any of the fuss about Jay Cutler. This is his 7th season as an NFL starter and over two teams he has had 2 winning seasons and got to the play-offs once (and then had the controversial "walk off" in the NFC Championsip game).
The Bears would be in the middle category for me.
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But the Bills got it wrong they picked the wrong guy in the wrong year...... y'know we don't need stats to tell us that all we need to do is look back and see they got it wrong with Edwards and wrong with Losman and it becomes a logical absolute that they got it wrong with EJ.
Obviously......
On a serious note a very worthy topic. Although even us Manuel fans have to concede that stats alone are never conclusive.
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There is likely to be Matt Cassel as well isn't there? I think he's played the best of the three ropey vets in Minnesota... although on that basis maybe they keep him to compete with a draft pick..... I think Ponder is useless and Freeman's character would worry me.
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I agree. Think this is a look to next season move. May as well have a look at Wingo now, the season is dead, CJ and Freddie are both more than likely back next year, Summers has had a good year as a ball carrier and occasional pass catcher from full back and T-Choice was never going to be more than a kind of ok back up guy.
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I do agree with the point that there must at least be some plays we could run where CJ and Fred are on the field together. Even Gailey had a couple of them in his playbook last year. Hackett hinted at it in press conferences during camp, but unless I missed it (I've seen every game except for the Saints game and the second quarter in Pittsburgh) I've not seen them in on the same play once. Having said that (and bearing in mind my question about why we had CJ in the backfield and not Fred when we could have killed clock with 5 minutes to go) I agree with the general view that you can't lay Sunday's defeat at the hands of the play calling. The offense put up 31 and had the ball in field goal range with 20 seconds to go..... then Stevie dropped it.
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I'd find it hard and that comes from someone who has never been to Buffalo and has only been a follower for about 10/11 years. When I started watching the NFL I started supporting Buffalo because we have a family friend from there and that was my only real link with America. But I love the NFL so I probably would adopt someone else.... whilst Drew Brees is still playing it would likely be the Saints... down the road probably whoever I enjoyed watching most at that time. If the Bills went out of existence the only way I could ever imagine myself being really passionate about another team is if there is ever a franchise put over here in the UK in London because then they'd be in my home city. I wouldn't swap to a London team if the Bills were still the Bills though. And I don't actually think a London team is going to happen any time soon. Hopefully the Bills won't leave Buffalo any time soon either.
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I thought Kiko was poor yesterday too. I can't remember which of the Atlanta touchdown runs it was (think it was the first) where he over pursued on a gap. He has done that from time to time in the running game, but this kid is still a good football player who has had a good rookie year. I thought our run defense had been gradually improving in recent games but it was dreaful yesterday.
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I also do not believe you can put that on EJ Manuel in any way. Was he perfect? No. But the offense scored 31 points - he did not turn the ball over and he made two big throws at the end of the game that should have put us in a winning position and his two most experienced pass catchers (ie the two guys with the most NFL starts catching passes on our team) dropped them.
Those drops and a bad day from the defense in terms of stopping the run, Atlanta were better than double their season average rushing, cost us this game.
Lewis to start / Manuel out
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
I think it's safe to say this one isn't serious, he has practised a bit today. If we were 7-7 EJ would in all likelyhood be playing this week. But why take a risk with the guy when you are 5-9?