AKC

I see- you were the one in Boston during that time with the Grogan jersey ;-)

Enough with the feeble whining- finding a Pat's fan in L.A. 6 years ago took a very good Private Eye and plenty of cash. I hear from my friends in Boston it was exactly the same way. Oh, the Sox fans were still around but a Pat's fan sighting was akin to dining with a Yeti. Spare us your ill-advise, uninformed and unwelcome lecturing.

I thought you were writing a review of former League MVP Rich Gannon when his line was giving him time! It's amazing how much better even some of the worst QBs in the league look at the above skills when they have time in the pocket. I've seen guys I thought were absolutely stationary juke the best rushers in the league when they were put in situations their lines were giving them time on most downs and they were only being asked to make minor foot adjustments instead of fight off a bull rush on passing downs. I've seen career journeymen who spent full seasons locking onto their primary read and blowing off progressions turn into league MVPs with their field vision when they got into an offense favorable to them and they had a reliable line in front of them. Time makes all QBs better, and when you have time the small elements like moving a step to one side or the other now and then IMO become hundreds of times easier. It's facing major pressure that turns almost everyone into garbage, and the few times I've seen the Patsy line break down in recent years Brady has looked just as bad as Rick Mirer.

I had a similar opinion about Jordan when he landed on the Raider's roster, figuring the Raiders made another error to compound their recent personnel gaffes. But I will say that I saw some of his play this season and he is less one-dimensional as a runner than I thought. It appears to some degree that the switch to full-time for him has brought him a "renewed vigor" when he's running, and he's been more difficult to get two hands on than in the past.

My position is consistent- I believe Brady to be substantially overhyped due to his clear limitations as an athlete and the few times I've seen Brady under the type of pressure others face weekly and his dreadful play under those circumstances. You don't have to like my opinion, you don't have to agree with it, but don't assume you have any license to misrepresent it. I can't help you follow clear logic and facts since you choose to ignore them. Time should tell whether I'm right- the league has always found ways to catch up to the "genius" coach of any time period. History says Belichick's window is either closing now or will very soon. Brady might bounce around some West Coast offenses since that's the oinly thing suited for his arm, and if we do get to see him put in the position of being forced to carry a team we'll have a far better standard to rate him on than simply after a period in which he's had the benefit of one of the top contemporary defenses, a line blocking scheme that has offered him FAR greater protection than virtually any QB in the league on most Sundays and the "genius" coaching staff of the moment, not to mention a "Best Ever" kicker who has bailed him out of losing the biggest games in EVERY season he's had success. I believe, as others have suggested in this thread, that there are 5 or 6 QBs in the game right now who would have had similar success under the same circumstances. That's not taking away from what Mudslide has done, it's simply what I think is an objective, media-hype free view of all the circumstances and benefits he's had in his career to date. Now feel free to go back to the altar and worship your autographed Brady thong.

Are you daft? That's exactly the point of not only the original poster but also the Trolls you're teat feeding.

Not being a big fan of one-upmanship, I'll bet you 1 TRILLION dollars that Brady is a .500 QB today, his first season without a dominating Defense to bail him out of trouble. A wire transfer will do nicely Mr. .500 ;-) PUT UP OR SHUT UP INDEED

I actually like sour grapes so once again you've made an unsupported an incorrect assumption. You also assume that once Brady is exposed by your fading D as nothing more than a system QB that history will ignore this fact? I'm thinking Brady is less likely to be historically thought of in a class with names like Unitas, Elway, Young and Favre and will much more likely to be considered a peer of Warner and Dilfer. But you go on writing your history early, you're the type who will be in a Bengals jersey in 3 years anyway!

Mark Bulger has scored far more frequently than Mudslide yet he has a far worse defense. Might I assume, based upon the observations you deem germane, that Mark Bulger is the "Best Ever" to play QB?

You are involved in a discussion of whether Brady is the "Best Ever" and you're citing Jeff George as a measure?

It appears you've skipped the medication once again for your Pseudobulbar Affect- Actual objective fans of the sport wouldn't even suggest that the "Best Ever" tag be applied to someone who tanked to .500 the moment his defense began to fall back to earth. But think of all the possibilities: The Memorial Day Brady .500 Brady Dairy Half/N/Half TV Series: The Adventures of Winsome and Losesome Brady Yes, the list could go on forever!

I think the numbers fall if you begin to trace it: I think it was Joe Phillips, a NT for the Chargers who got beat up real good by a couple guys leaving a bar in San Diego. A buddy of mine chased Ray Bentley out of a bar back home, and Joey didn't have Ray by more than 25 or 30 pounds. Then again Joey doesn't look like he has much to lose in a fight ;-) When you compile things the odds are probably well in favor of the athletes, but I'd think more along the lines of 25 or 30 to 1.

I have to give major credit to to the line scheme in NE and how incredibly effective they's been giving Brady 2 and 3 more pocket seconds than the average QB gets league-wide, especially up the middle. At the same time it would be foolish to ignore that when their scheme breaks down Brady looks like Zeke Bratokowski. I recall when Miami got a little heat on him in week 15 last year he pissed away a 180 yard rushing performance by his backs by tossing 4 picks in a loss.

You need to get out a little more. Playbook on NFL Network and 10 other shows give you additonal film angles plus on long balls you almost always get views that give up the defensive positions. You can watch what happens, or you can see what you want to see. Bradiots choose the latter, try the former if you'd like to learn something.

That's right, you're too busy watching the QB to notice nobody gives safety help on top when Mudslide is playing.

You should try and rely on the research of Bill's fans since you haven't shown the first sign of stringing together any coherent logic of your own!

I say any QB who gets the benefit of seeing almost no coverage on top and still can hit only 25% of his deep balls is a laughable excuse of a deep ball passer. But if you find his company pleasant don't let me dissuade you from a sleepover.

Seek comfort in the rythmic sound of my "facts" slapping your chin.

You appear to be the one stuck on Peyton Manning- his name has hardly been mentioned in the string since he plays in a much different offense that relies on the real threat he poses in throwing the ball long. If you'd like to see why that's a threat you might consider his career stats on the deep ball.

We all must draw our own conclusions when faced with facts, I've prvoded the facts and now you've offered your conclusion- I'll respect your opinion that Holcomb is better then Brady but I'd find that difficult to support myself.

The promise of the young is that they might some day become amusing.

I don't remember the plays in the drive on #3, but you're absolutely right about 1 and 2.

Then it's even more peculiar that you're making that argument. The facts are the facts- A) Brady is among the least succesful QBs in the NFL throwing passes beyond 20 yards. B) Without a dominating defense Brady's a .500 QB. So watch all the quarterback play you want to on Sundays, I prefer to watch the things that actually make a difference in the W/L column. And if you want to argue against facts with me you'll have to do a lot better than fabricating some argument that is only confusing to you.

I would go with overrated in the first third of his career (JE), but as he matured and especially at the end when he only used his feet on rare occassions, I thought of him as a prototype complete QB and among the best to ever play. If Brady gets kicked to someone like Houston and takes them to regular playoff shots I'll move him up a bit, but right now he appears to me to be the single major beneficiary of being in the Belichick magic show.

The stats say something else- on all of his throws over 20 yards this year he's 6-23 for about a 45 passer rating, right about where his career numbers run and also, at that range (over 20) the worst or one of the worst in the league. He gets an occassional ball over the top because no one puts much emaphasis on coverage over 20 yards deep on a guy who throws so poorly over 20 yards. Does the NE scheme reward the behind the LOS passes that Brady has built a career on? Oh yes- over the recent past their defense has given them lots of extra ops and the little ball O has been productive. If their D continues though to give up the kind of yardage it has this season it won't much matter how many behind the line of scrimmage passes Brady completes and how many yards they run for after the catch- the net result in the W/L column will be a bad NE team. Defense rules, and it's ruled that team during their moment in the sun- it's merely a QB obsessed media and fans who hold Brady up as the most important piece of the puzzle.