HamSandwhich
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Posts posted by HamSandwhich
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I'm done talking about this, apparently I get warning points for having my opinion, so I'll stop. You all know where I stand. Continuity is best for us for reasons I've highlighted. We'll leave it at that and agree to disagree. It's been fun debating, and I see where you all are coming from. It's frusterating, I understand. I'm one of the most frustrated people about this team, and my friends would call me nothing if not one of the most fanatical people about a team they have ever met. I stand by my Bills and stand by whatever decision they make. Through this all, the one thread that combines us all is that we're all fans and we only want to see the team succeed, and I can take solice in that, though our opinions may differ. They are just that, opinions.
With that said, GO BILLS!!!
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Hahaha, that's awesome! Eric Wood is the man!
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A lot of long winded discussion which I can simply equate to ham sandwich supports this losing culture.....ignoring the running game.....losing by 50.....no positives whatsoever w gailey. If you can come up with one that would be nice
Losing is awesome.... Can I have some more sir
What is there to challenge ? If the next coach is as terrible as gailey then we will stink again...if the new coach is better then boom we will have some results and not get blown out every week.
Your premise is that Gailey WILL be just as bad next year. I'm saying, thats not necessarily true. Agree to disagree.
Obvious reasons for not challenging him directly has nothing to do with the topic itself.
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Of course nobody knew if Harbaugh would be this good. But I think people looked at his track record developing college QB and winning and his personality and said "worth a try".
Chan had none of that at Georgia Tech. He was less worth a try. Once we did try, it may have been worth finishing the experiment by giving 3 years, but the experiment is over.
By the "nobody knew if XXXXX would be this good" logic, no one should ever try something new -- a high draftee at QB, a college coach with a great intensity and a good record.
Someone said it earlier - continuity only matters if what you're continuing is worth continuing. Losing is by definition, not worth continuing. If we were 7-9 or even 5-11 but I felt Gailey and his assistants were getting the best they could out of the team and utilizing their best players effectively, I'd say go for it, we're just missing a few pieces. But they're not, on neither count and everyone can see it.
What I'm saying, is there have been plenty of coaches that have had a "track record" of success. Look at Spurrier for example, everyone thought he would be a good NFL coach. What happened? Track record does not always translate into a good coach, and for the most part, new NFL coaches go through a couple of years of turmoil before they are anything, IF they will be anything. Sure, you can point to RECENT coaches, but over the history of the NFL, which people like to so quickly forget, those coaches don't fair quite as well as often as people like to believe.
Continuity would actually be a departure of the same old same old at OBD, they have rinced and repeated 3 years and out, and it hasn't worked. Time for a change. I wasn't about this when it was Jauron, but now I feel we need to stay the course. Yes, things can change, and they do, often, in the NFL. Next year we could be talking about 8-5 rather than 5-8 under the same regime. Nobody wants to believe it, everyone wants to point to what has been done recently, but a coach can change concepts yearly and can change the entire complexion of the team by tweaking things here and there. A wholesale change is not needed.
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Getting rid of 'bums' works. Replacing them with other 'bums' does not.
For obvious reasons, I will not directly challenge you
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I support the continuity of getting rid of the bums after 3 years of losing and not showing a promising future
That's worked out well for us!
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YOU ARE WRONG. This is an outdated, antiquated notion. LOOK AROUND THE LEAGUE. You are seeing first-year coaches AND first-year QB's succeeding right away. This idea that if we got a new coach that we're "starting from scratch" is utterly ridiculous. We could and probably would improve right away in year 1 with a coach who knows how to manage a freaking clock. Football is complicated, but not as complicated as you're trying to make it out to be.
No, its not antiquated, its people getting lucky recently. Like I said in the originoal post, its the exception, not the rule, if you look at it over the lifetime of the NFL. People only want to remember whats happened recently. Well if you do that, you're doomed to repeat history, and history indicates it takes time to get a team going in the right direction when you blow the team up.
Secondly, I really hate people who think they are the end all be all to all discussions. Get off your high horse, you can't say I'm WRONG as its my opinion, it may differ from yours, but cannot be wrong.
You mean Democrat right? That is what just happened. Record unemployment, huge national debt, median household income down, but let's have four more please.
Its funny because people can't destinguish between the two parties.
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If the "top" people remain in place, it appears to me that the message to the players is that mediocrity is the new standard. Clean house, get new people, charge them with specific objectives; if they don't deliver on their objectives, get a new set of people in their places. Lead by actions: The only acceptable outcome is winning.
Of course, that presumes that winning IS the objective at OBD....
We've done that in the past, MM and Jauron, 3 years and out, didn't work.
Yes, although several of them were posted while I was looking for the link in question. Forgive me if I missed it, but I didn't see anything answering the question, "Would the 49ers have been better off keeping one of the coaches they fired from 2003-2010 instead of firing them?"
The biggest problem with what you just said is nobody knew if Harbaugh would be this good. It's hit or miss, plenty of college coaches have tried and failed. What's you point with this? You can't live your life with hindsight. Or are you captain hindisight?
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For those preaching continuity. How many consecutive losing seasons should a coaching staff be given before a change. Is 5 losing seasons a reason to prefer change? How about 8? Or should GMs and coaches be appointed for life? I am curious as to when, if ever, you think a change would be the better option.
I said more than 3, at least one more year. Lets stop this incessant switching of coaches every three years. Its obvious, it hasnt worked.
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So would you say that the 49ers should have kept Mike Singletary on board in the name of continuity?
http://en.wikipedia....9310:_Struggles
Mariucci was fired despite making the playoffs, Dennis Erickson was brought in, then fired after 2 years and a 9-23 record. Mike Nolan was brought in to rebuild, went 16-32 in 3 seasons. He was retained for a 4th, and fired once the team started off 2-5. Mike Singletary was hired as HC after going 5-4 as the interim HC. Singletary was under fire, but retained, after a full season of 8-8, but fired after going 6-9 the following season. Then Jim Harbaugh was hired, and the 49ers are 23-6-1 since.
The 49ers were totally on the "blow it up every 2-3 years" cycle that you claim we're in, yet they got out of it by firing their coach. Do you honestly think that if they'd retained Erickson or Nolan or Singletary, they'd still be this good now? Or better yet, that firing Erickson and Nolan set them back, and they might've become a dominant team a couple years earlier? I really want to know. I'm not saying I'm definitely right, but I'm confident that Chan Gailey isn't a good enough head coach to lead this team to success without elite talent across the board, and I'd rather get rid of him now than later. I felt similarly about Dick Jauron after the 2008 season. He was retained for the sake of continuity, and the team only got worse. My guess is that if Gailey is brought back (and I agree that there's a good chance of it), the team will start off with a bad record and he'll be fired midseason, a la Jauron or Nolan.
Unfortunately I can't find the link, but I recently read a good analysis (I think by Tim Graham, but not sure) of coaches whose first 3 seasons were all losing records. Only about 12 had been brought back for a 4th season, and of them, only Belichick had a winning season in year 4 (11-5 with the Browns). I just don't see anything in Gailey's record with the Bills that suggests that he can do significantly better than what he's already done.
Did you read any of my posts?
The biggest problem with what you just said is nobody knew if Harbaugh would be this good. It's hit or miss, plenty of college coaches have tried and failed. What's you point with this?
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Can't believe I got sucked into a debate with an obvious troll. Well played - you got me.
Not a troll, rather a passionate Bills fan.
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I just want to put my name out there for being in favor for continuity. I know this is not a popular viewpoint on this board, but I feel as though, starting over again (just as we did with MM and Dick after a few years) is going to lead to the same. Are we ever going to learn from our past?
That does not mean some tweaks can happen, however, the framework of this regime needs to be maintained, if we want any chance at the playoffs in the next year. We will likely need to start all over again, and have those growing pains, that we're so used to having done this twice in recent history. I know some will point toward the recent history of first year coaches. However, to that I'll say, its RECENT history, and is actually the exception rather than the rule. Coaches generally do not fair well in the first couple seasons. So why start over? Give Gailey and company another year to get this ship right. Let this defense have another year (after having just changed back to 4-3) in this scheme, they've been getting better save for the last game.
These are just some of the thoughts I've illustrated in other posts, maintaining continuity is far better for the immediate future than to get a new coach. We have the talent, lets see one more year under Gailey.
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Plenty of first-year head coaches have overseen progression in the teams they took over. Go back in the annals and find a 15-31 coach having a good fourth year. Again, it doesn't happen. You know why? Because no team is stupid enough to give someone who's that woefully ineffective a fourth year. I know Buddy Nix is an imbecile, but I just hope he's not dumb enough to think like you when it's time to make a coaching decision at season's end.
So you're calling me dumb? That has to be a COC problem. Anyway, I asked you to look it up, as in get a percentage, and I bet you find less than 20% of first year coaches are successful in their first year. Compare that to 4th year coaches. Then get back to me.
Look man, we'll have to agree to disagree, you're obviously about the, "blow it all up" and hope we get a coach that can make it happen. Probably because you've been suckered in by recent first year coaches doing well. I maintain RECENT first year coaches, vs across the entire time the NFL has graced this great land. The recent trend is not the rule its an abberation and we're bound to have a rash of bad first year coaches. Stay the course, and lets see what happens.
Intellectually, I'll run circles around you, you dont know me, dont be insulting by calling me or anyone else on the board a name such as dumb.
His point is your logic is stupid.
Sitting on your hands with Gailey who is a known failure as opposed to trying your hand with someone else is irrational thinking. The same type of thinking that has got this team to where it is now and has been the past decade and change.
Exactly.
I aint watching a game next year if Gaileys back. ****, move the team. I'd rather Buffalo not have a team than be the laughing stock of the league year after year.
No, apparently his point is that I am dumb. There is no logic to be applied. For logic to be applied, there needs to be a set of rules that are always true, and that's not the NFL. Things are different from year to year and things change. So don't label anything here as logic, that would be a fallacy.
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Nope. Not if an upgrade is brought in, and finding an upgrade over Chan Gailey wouldn't exactly be difficult. Then again, you probably think the 49ers made a mistake in eschewing continuity when they fired moronic Mike Singletary and hired Jim Harbaugh. If a coach has proven himself as ineffective, you make a change and hope you make the right choice with your next hire. That's that. But keep on apologizing for 15-31 Gailey, whose teams are still consistently getting run off the field three years into his tenure. Go back in the annals of NFL history and find a coach with a worse record who was retained after three years. It just doesn't happen.
Please tell me where I'm apologizing for Gailey? Did I say something wehre he's been the greatest coach ever to date or something? Do I sing his praises? No, I dont think I do. Why don't you go into the annals and find out how many 1st year coaches in the entire history have done a good job. I bet you'll find, more often than not, it takes a couple years to get anything going. Once again, continuity is the way to go.
How are you so sure that the next coach is going to be an upgrade? There were many here who though anybody would be an upgrade over the corpse, anyone, a 5 year old kid. What happened there with your opinion?
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How in the fu** is that better? Chan Gailey will never coach a team to the playoffs again in his career. Ever. But what the hell...let's preach continuity...because blowing it up proves we fu**ed up in the first place....
I believe something can change, sure, with a competent coach and FO. We don't have one. How is Chan going to ever take this team anywhere? Have you watched a game? Or are you Crayonz in disguise?
Bravo, Crayonz...bravo.
Another soothsayer I see. What does your crystal ball say the winning number in the powerball is going to be tommorow. Please, PM me the numbers so I can win! I see you can so arrogantly see the future by saying that Chan will NEVER coach a team to the playoffs. What I'm saying, is that another year in the same system vs trying to blow it all up will not be any better. In fact it will set us back.
I hear a lot of people try and retort me with the whole "lather, rinse, and repeat" argument. Well, I'll opine that it is the ADD generation that is doing that with the 3 year and out attitude. Will we learn from our mistakes or continue to pick up the pitchforks and doom ourselves to repeat recent history?
If you can't see the idiocy in front of you on a weekly basis, that's your problem. Continuity is useless when it's obvious that the people in charge aren't good enough. Three years and no tangible progress. Make it four if the ever-important continuity wins out, because you'll be watching another awful, direction-less team. If you get your wish, a harsh lesson will be taught. Enjoy it.
Soothsayers are abound here I see
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Fans like you deserve the miserable results the Bills provide because you condone their actions and accept their stupidity.
So, what we need is, another 3 years and out, because that's what's worked in the past. Its worked out after Malarky (sp?) and the corpse to give them 3 years and then make them walk. Fans like you are apart of the new ADD generation, no patience, that means no continuity, and no chance at anything in the next few years. Go ahead, wish for it.
This is a definite step to continuously lose.
The short sightedness that you and many others choose to see, yes. You just don't believe anything can change from year to year, for whatever reason, teams can be completely different from one to the next. We'll see what happens.
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Man, there's going to be a lot of pissed off people on this board when Gailey and Nix are retained. Prepare youselves, perhaps you would prefer the Mayan's to be correct over that? I think that's the only thing that will change things, they'll be here next year and that's for the better IMHO.
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Wonder what illness? Has it been released, what it is?
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Weird time to write that article. I could see doing it in early November when Nix gave Gailey a resounding vote of confidence, but things have gotten even worse since then and the coach has been a huge factor in that. Gailey is finished.
You didn't just sort of compare Gailey to Belichick, did you? Hahaha.
That's what people say when they want to deflect the question without being able to answer it. Congrats brother, you know what I was saying but chose to take the smart arse route.
You jump out of the station wagon and "tweak" Gailey. We'll sit here and watch.
How much tweaking of the systems do you see Gailey and Wannstedt doing? Be honest.
How does "tweaking the system" help when the players have quit? How does the same guy walk into the same room and say "Listen up, I'm going to tweak a few things!" and turn into a leader of a group of guys that aren't even interested in trying? Are you expecting more than muffled laughter?
So what I'm hearing you say is, you're in the locker room and know exactly what's going on. Am I right?
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This article is funny, because we are not good!
Basically, if they do stay...14 seasons with no playoffs...15...16...17 and so on
So all coaches and GMs, over the history of the NFL, have continued to stay bad with no progression at all? Interesting! That's news to me! Tell that to Bellicheck.
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Pete Prisco thinks Gailey's firing is a foregone conclusion: http://www.cbssports...k-it-in-sunday-
This is laughable, Pete Prisco "thinks"????!?!??! Hahaha. That doesn't sound difinitive to me. Good job.
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I'll go on record as saying, continuity, even as bad as it has been of late, is better than the alternative. We cannot clean house every 3 years, that's rediculous. Give Nix and Co. at least one more year. Continuity is needed here. Contrary to what most people will have you believe on here, coaches and schemes can be tweaked, and get better. Wholesale sweeping changes the organization will only set the Bills back a few more years at least.
You said it brother
Continuity is the very same BS that Dick Jauron stated when asked why he retained OC Turk Schonert, and then went and fired him two weeks before the 09 season started.
These 2 morons have had 3 years to get it together and 50-17 loss to Pete Carroll's Seahawks with a rookie QB the Bills could have easily drafted in the 3rd round is an outright slap in the face to every Bills fan out there.
Nix / Gailey simply don't have the brain cells to turn this franchise into a winner, and they never will have them. Is this going to be another Dick Jauron debacle when owner Ralph Wilson finally fired these two morons after 9 games next year? Why give these two idiots another draft, off season, and free agency period to screw up?
If you went into a hospital to have a gall bladder operation and instead the moron removes your appendix...would you let the same idiot operate on you twice?
Yeah, do you play poker? Hindsight is 20/20, and its laugable that people point to one person or missed pick as the whole reason a team has tanked it. There are players that end up better than what they thought, and players who bust. Its all a real crapshoot. Armchair GMs of course will say that they wanted Wilson, but guess what, you weren't privvy to all the information these scouts are and they believed he didn't fit as our pick where he was available. Tough luck buddy, don't act like you know more than these professionals.
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I think a ham sandwich could do a better job at this point.
Hey now...well maybe I could
Would you like to make a friendly wager on that?
Its not about betting on it, I just was wondering if there was a definitive decision to show Chan the door, and if so, who did it? The name of the thread is misleading.
I would both like and guess Billick.
He wants the job, he has credibility. He's an offensive guy who knew how to work with a good defense and DC and let them do their thing while supporting them.
Mind you - Gailey has a lot of similar qualities - but he lacks the SB ring and credibility that goes with it, and Gailey is clearly fried.
Billick should be refreshed and ready to go - he's been spending all his time relaxing and watching game films.
"Know" is a strong word, but Nix's most recent interview comments were not encouraging for Gailey. Sorry I don't have a link.
Does somebody have a link?
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I'm trying to figure out how we know Chan's a goner? Do you have some inside info or something?
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Thanks. As Ryan will attest I have been for winning out that doesn't mean you can't look and see what may happen.
All week long I realize that it is better for the bills to lose. You know what happens when I wake up Sunday? I want the bills to win.
Everyone wants the bills to win ham. It is just a matter of thinking long term or short term as others have pointed out. Getting a better pick doesn't guarantee anything but it does increase the pool of players you can pick from thereby increasing your chances. This is unarguable.
The mathematics of having more players to pick from if you get a higher pick, I agree is unarguable. However, what is arguable is how much better a 3rd pick as compared to a 7th pick equated to a team or franchise turning it around. There are sooo many different variables that go into it and the difference, I can say with almost complete certainty (without actually looking up the facts somehow) is neglidgeable. That all CAN be argued.
Now, if you're truly waking up thinking you want to Bills to win, and you're just doing this to look at what COULD happen if they lose out, there is no problem. However, I would venture to say, that some in this thread, just hope the Bills lose out and that's all. I'm pretty sure at least one of these guys in this thread, going back and forth with me, have actually said as much. To me that's not being a fan, I dont know what it is, but it's not a fan to me.
Now that's my opinion and how much weight you give it, its how credible you think I am and how much of your happiness is affected by my statement. It is what it is in my mind.
Buffalo Bills Pursuing Continuity With Buddy Nix, Chan Gailey
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
I respect your opinion and will not argue, as I said I would not, but don't paint me as a person you think I am. I'm as frusterated as most fans.