ExiledInIllinois
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Posts posted by ExiledInIllinois
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God, I hope so!
Not sure if that was a snapback? I know if I would have said something like "Unions Bad!", "Labor Bad!", that would have qualified. Not quite sure if the "Darin Smiley" can have a cheery upbeat undertone?
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My father is a machinist by trade. He did his apprenticeship prior to his 100% U.S. government funded vacation to Vietnam for a couple years back in the last 60's. I grew up on a skilled tradesman's hourly wage.
My answer is probably a bit biased, but yes, I believe think wages ought to be on par as long as there is equal demand for the service provided. It's all about the demand for the labor, though.
One of my sister's friends owns a machine shop. It was a family business started after the war... It is still up running today. True, business is not the same today as it has been in the past but, demand for quality is still there. Her friend's constant lament is that it is hard finding quality, skilled people that know what they are doing.
Machining today, I take is a lot more computer driven than years ago. This opens up whole new skills that need to be trained on top of things learned in the past.
I agree with you and KD. It is all about demand. That is why they should move them to cheaper areas if they can.
Why haven't they done it already?
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It doesn't matter what he 'needs' to support his family (totally subjective anyway), it matters what someone is willing to pay him for that work and what he is will to accept. If the two parties can't reach an agreement, than both should be free to pursue other options.
I think you need to go to remedial smiley school. Your abuse of the Darin smiley is reaching the critical stage.
Even more nauseating... Is my constant use of ellipsis.
Steer me to the "Snapback Rules"... A.K.A "Darin Smiley."
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Couldn't resist Stuck. All in good fun.
You forgot to mention...
And after dinner, at 5:30, everybody at Shady Acres Rest Home gets together to play a spirited game of euchre before heading off to bed at 8:00!
And who cares... I don't need eyebrows anyway!
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I don't really believe it's a good thing, but that's a complicated question. The answer is probably bound to how quickly we hit that equilibrium. I'd love it all to stay here and continue to employ thousands of factory workers. Irritation stems from the fact that demanding wages in that range sn't going to help keep that stuff around, yet the goal of the union is to protect the worker.
-Jeff
I here you Jeff... IMO, he is not actually "demanding" wages... Just being a "wise guy" about capitalism... And it doesn't come off well.
You said:
"I'd love it all to stay here and continue to employ thousands of factory workers."
It just is not going to happen. Nothing will until there is a free "legal" flow of labor into this country.
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What do some think a skilled machinist/tradesman needs to make to adequately support her/his family? Should skilled labor be afforded wages that are on par with their more formaly educated countrymen?
If all it takes is a person with or witout a GED to make some of these pieces... Then by all means GM should farm these jobs out overseas and stop letting the union "hold them hostage."
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He's not saying they should offer the engineers behind the product a competitive salary for their highly trained services. He's saying they should be demanding $50 - $60 base pay for factory assemblers at a plant in Sandusky, Ohio. That's $124,000 a year straight time. For assembling bearings. Screw my fancy college education, I'm going to go assemble bearings.
As I suspected, it all boils down to what you say here.
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Exactly. The bearing is the important component, not the hourly assembly line crew putting them together. Given schematics and machinery any line could put those components together.
...and these types of shops will continue to move into the not-so-unionized South and rust belt residents will continue to blame the evil corporations for taking all of "their" jobs and tax rates will continue to go up as the tax base erodes and people will demand higher wages to combat the increasing cost of living and these types of shops will continue to move into the....
-Jeff
Then away from the not-so-unionized South and across the borders.
And that is a good thing?... In time an equillibrium will be achieved. Just when?
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And? How many thousands of subcomponents of various machinary are critical to everyday life and saftey? Does this mean that we should be paying some guy on an assembly line $60/hr to make every one them? Maybe you can expound on what that'll do to Michelin mommy's retirement fund.
As usual, you seem to be forgetting to have a point.
Who cares about their retirement fund... That isn't important if they die on their way to work. Should it matter?
Like I said before... Good, move them overseas.
I do wonder how much the industry is skill/tech driven... There must be something to it? But, then again I will just accept the "Unions Bad", "Labor Bad" that is being tossed out.
Anybody "in the know" care to elaborate. Obviously, I can't.
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I've raised my dog since he was a puppy. He's part of my family.....You hurt him, you get hurt worse. If you're asking me whether or not I'd do the same thing if there was some stray dog walking around? No, that's not quite the same thing. If you see someone getting beat up in the park, you may do something like call the police or whatever else you can to help. But if the person getting beat up is my brother? That's totally different. My dog is my family. Period. You F with my family, I pay it back exponentially.
I think we got sidetracked from the crux of the story here.
I understand that and agree with you... Really apples and oranges with regards to this story.
It is an stupid sentence.
Night in the park? Come on... Doesn't this illustrate how "soft" we have become as a society. I would love if the judge ordered me to that sentence... All would be in for one "outdoorsy" treat.
I guess I would become feral... Oh wait, I already am!
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Thought of that before I used the term... I used it because Michelin has always been associated with safety (inventing the radial design, etc...).
Adding to that... There was a great History channel docu on tire making... I was amazed how high-tech it is... We do pay for it though... Totally not the "dirty industry" of the past.
My point was, how important are spindle bearings in your life? I'll bank that it is pretty high up there on the list... Even if most don't think so.
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I agree with you Keg.
Are cats really totally domesticated?
Maybe they can import some really nasty guys into the Painsville from Clevelend to toughen up the park.
If she didn't want them she should have loaded them in a sack of rocks and threw them into the Grand River/Fairport Harbor...
I would have loved to see the judge duplicate that sentence!
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Go ahead and make them in India... Who cares... I don't.
I wonder how the American public is going to react knowing that their "precious cargo" is flying down the road on Indian bearings.
PR disaster after the first faulty crash?
Who cares?
In all honesty... Even in this day and age... You want something machined well and strive for quality... You stay stateside.
Wasn't there a big thing about fastners machined overseas some years ago? Sure the market exists and does well... But, the dirty little secret is that people who demand quality stay in the US... That doesn't get reported.
Like I said, I don't care... Move it overseas... I won't be screaming... "Michelin mommy and daddy" will.
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Define "survive"? The response to a hypothetical u-boat attack in the Great Lakes would have been late, haphazard. and uncoordinated at best, considering every meaningful asset was in the Atlantic. But regardless...a u-boat would have maybe a week's endurance at that point, before it had to run home.
Another thing to consider is that a lot of smaller ships (US submarines, Coast Guard forces, destroyer escorts) were worked up in the Great Lakes prior to deployment. Screw commerce, imagine the damage to the war effort by the disruption of training.
Moot point anyway, since a u-boat never would have penetrated to the Great Lakes. It couldn't have made it's way up the St. Lawrence against the flow of the river. Hell, Prien barely made it into Scapa Flow against the tide.
Moot point as well. Lots of that ore that got shipped over the Great Lakes got shipped over the Atlantic as well...and sunk there.
As survive... I meant what would they do after the attack?
And exactly how would they get through the 8 locks along the Welland/Niagara Escarpment?
You are exactly right... it is a moot point.
I suppose the deluge of commerce crossing the Atlantic would overcome the attacks and stuff would get through?
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Probably just over-cautious - better to have and not need than need and not have, and all that. Part of the motivation was undoubtedly that u-boats had penetrated "impenetrable" places before, such as when Gunther Prien entered the anchorage at Scapa Flow and sunk the battleship Royal Oak (I believe. One of that class, at least).
So right... Just imagine what they could if they got in (the emmense steel industry at that time... Not to mention the ore (and other raw materials) especially out of the Mesabi Range)... But, how would they "survive" in there (Great Lakes)after the attacks?
The Edmund Fitzgerald did go down with 26,000 ton of taconite from that area.
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At work we grilled shish kabob (awesome prepared meat from the Greek deli in Hegewisch)... Grilled garlic bread, potato salad, grilled peppers and onions.
Washed down with Dr. Pepper.
36 degrees and still grilling!
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In the book, it mentioned convoying and how the uboats would attack the the largest tonnage first, and had competition with other uboat commanders for tonnage sunk....And the goverment did not order blackouts, which aided the uboats at periscope depth to follow the convoy and select the tonnage to go down first...The way it was described in the book, the uboats would check what went down by what was floating, oil, produce, and natural rubber... Useing the gulfstream the u's made the the merchant's ships try the costline route only to be silloqueted by shore lights... Johnny cash actually wrote the song loveboat for abc back in the 70's
Hence the ICWW, as I mentioned.
Problem for U-Boats would would have been shallow project depth and confined area?
Problems for shipping would have been having to break-bulk their cargos to ocean going vessels.
To tie this into the Edmund Fitz...
... Even the Soo (Sault Ste. Marie) had "sub nets" in place during the war! How exactly they would have made it into the lakes 15-20 years before a canalized SeaWay is beyond me? Any help CTM? -
Good tune, read a book about the uboats destroying many ships off the eastern seaboard from north carolina to florida...Towns and cities with lights on silloquetting merchant vessels at night, made the job easy for the germans...People would notice the explosians and didn't know it was the germans attacking right off the U.S. eastern seaboard....U boat's were affecting supplies to england and going to change possible outcome of the war...Luckily,, hitler ordered the uboats back to europe, around norway I believe...The uboat commander could'nt believe the success they were having and then having to leave...
Interesting. The ICWW (InterCoastal WaterWay) was made during that time. Having a inland water route from NYC to the tip of Texas was a very valuable asset.
But, once they broke harbor to head across the pond was another story I imagine.
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Yay for unions.
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Good points!
"That past" becomes the here and now all too fast. What I mean is that we all get old. It isn't that somebody should take care of us from womb to tomb. You should be offered some security for your years you worked.
I am not asking for a "Golden Parachute" that the execs get. Some type of pension plan should be in order though.